Chad Henne

[vancelot23]

I'll personally guarantee the niners aren't looking to get Palmer. Smith has a 66% completion % so I don't know what inconsistency you're talking about. He's doing exactly what Harbaugh wants.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I'll personally guarantee the niners aren't looking to get Palmer. Smith has a 66% completion % so I don't know what inconsistency you're talking about. He's doing exactly what Harbaugh wants.

1 word for you......trolling.

 

[flamingrey]

As long as you're personally guaranteeing it...

If you look at 66% in a vaccuum, sure it's great. 7 TDs, 1 Int. 104 Rating. Even better. He must be playing like one of the 5 best QBs in the league this year. Sorry, just not the case. He's being asked to do almost nothing. Small role = low risk. Harbaugh is just smart enough make a game plan where they don't have to depend on Smith. However, I bet he wishes he had a QB he could depend on to open up the passing game.

And, for the third time, he's been below average-to-sucked for 3 games. Played well for give it 1.5 games. Very consistent.

 

[flamingrey]

If SF were interested, I don't think it would happen this season. That would potentially rip apart the team, and they are playing well. I would think that if they were interested that they would wait until after the season.

Their offense is 25th in yards. The ball is not moving. Take out the last 1.5 games and it's even worse. The offense 3.5 games into the season was nothing short of horrendous.

How is that playing well? Someone please answer this question.

 

[Tubbs1518]

So 2 games over 100, 2 games over 90, and 1 game at 85 QB rating is sucking? Those 2 games in the 90's and that one at 85 are sucking?

You know Carson only had 4 games over 100 all last year right? Then Palmer must be more inconsistent than Smith. That is 12 games of below average to sucking. Damn.

 

[flamingrey]

Colin Kaepernick has a QB rating of 115.3.

Who cares if he only has 3 passes this season.

Only an idiot uses QB rating as a stat standing alone...

Oops!

 

[Cincyfan78]

Their offense is 25th in yards. The ball is not moving. Take out the last 1.5 games and it's even worse. The offense 3.5 games into the season was nothing short of horrendous.

How is that playing well? Someone please answer this question.

My stance has nothing to do with how well Smith is or is not playing. They are 4-1. At this point, no team is going to risk screwing that up by bringing in another QB. If they were 1-4...then this wouldn't be an issue.

Smith is being asked to do exactly what Dalton is asked to do. Manage the game, rely on the run, and depend on a very good defense.

I'm throwing out the stats...all but the 4-1 start. That is why the 9ers probably won't look to address this situation until next year.

I'm not disagreeing with you on Harbaugh wanting a QB that can open up the offense. I think he would love that. But, currently, the team is winning by using the same formula the Bengals are. They are not going to mess with that. They are going to let Smith progress as much as he can, and re-evaluate in the off-season.

 

[Tubbs1518]

This is whole games moron. I'm not taking a sample size of 3 passes. His play is fine. He has looked good in every game except against the #1 D in the league. You yourself already stated that you have only watched 1 game of his. So you have no idea how he looked in those other games. However us with Sunday Ticket have watched him. He is playing really well. They aren't toning down the O, that is just the offense they run. The only real deep threat they have is Davis so they don't throw it deep. Why would they? You have no idea what you are talking about as usual. You are just making stuff up having no facts to back it up.

 

[flamingrey]

My stance has nothing to do with how well Smith is or is not playing. They are 4-1. At this point, no team is going to risk screwing that up by bringing in another QB. If they were 1-4...then this wouldn't be an issue.

Smith is being asked to do exactly what Dalton is asked to do. Manage the game, rely on the run, and depend on a very good defense.

I'm throwing out the stats...all but the 4-1 start. That is why the 9ers probably won't look to address this situation until next year.

I'm not disagreeing with you on Harbaugh wanting a QB that can open up the offense. I think he would love that. But, currently, the team is winning by using the same formula the Bengals are. They are not going to mess with that. They are going to let Smith progress as much as he can, and re-evaluate in the off-season.

Thanks for a reasonable response.

Reasons I disagree:

1) That 4-1 start is a product of the defense, running game, and good ST play. Changing the QB does will not effect any of that. So, for an upgrade to a player of Palmer's caliber if it's now or never, is a no-brainer at the right price.

Key here is now or never. They might prefer grabbing him in the offseason, but not at the expense of losing Carson to Seattle for a player the team has been trying to replace for years.

2) Their players aren't getting any younger. Their all-pro RB is getting up there in age. Their all-pro TE is already up there in age. And their defense is littered with veteran guys. A rookie QB definitely wouldn't be their first option. And Smith will only bring you limited success in a passing league, regardless of how good everyone else around him is.

3) They could trade for Palmer without giving up a single player. Early on he could be the 2nd string QB until he got up to speed on the playbook (maybe 2 weeks, let alone the fact that they'll be on a bye Week 7). And if Smith continues his great play, you ride him until he isn't. Nothing to lose.

I believe a lot is riding on Sunday's game against the Lions. This is their first real competition, and a team with a very good, but inconsistent, defense. If Smith blows everyone away, it may be enough where they might offer a 3rd round pick for Carson (not really serious). But if they lose, and Smith and the offense stinks it up to add to his 3.5 games of stank, they'll be on the phone Monday.

 

[flamingrey]

This is whole games moron. I'm not taking a sample size of 3 passes. His play is fine. He has looked good in every game except against the #1 D in the league. You yourself already stated that you have only watched 1 game of his. So you have no idea how he looked in those other games. However us with Sunday Ticket have watched him. He is playing really well. They aren't toning down the O, that is just the offense they run. The only real deep threat they have is Davis so they don't throw it deep. Why would they? You have no idea what you are talking about as usual. You are just making stuff up having no facts to back it up.

Actually I said I watched the one and bits and pieces of others with my Sunday Ticket. If you say you watched any more than that, you're a liar, especially considering I believe 3 of their games were on at 1:00.

Games with 124 yards and 132 yards are not good games in any sense of the word. Combine that with less than 6 ypa despite completing 70.5% of his passes in those games and you have a QB giving you almost nothing, and a team that's protecting itself from the QB.

Game 3 speaks for itself. He sucked. Badly.

Yup, he's a world beater.

-------

You can't even keep your own argument straight. You went from "his play is fine" in the 3rd sentence to "he has looked good every game" in the very next to "he is playing really well" in the 8th.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Thanks for a reasonable response.

Reasons I disagree:

1) That 4-1 start is a product of the defense, running game, and good ST play. Changing the QB does will not effect any of that. So, for an upgrade to a player of Palmer's caliber if it's now or never, is a no-brainer at the right price.

Key here is now or never. They might prefer grabbing him in the offseason, but not at the expense of losing Carson to Seattle for a player the team has been trying to replace for years.

2) Their players aren't getting any younger. Their all-pro RB is getting up there in age. Their all-pro TE is already up there in age. And their defense is littered with veteran guys. A rookie QB definitely wouldn't be their first option. And Smith will only bring you limited success in a passing league, regardless of how good everyone else around him is.

3) They could trade for Palmer without giving up a single player. Early on he could be the 2nd string QB until he got up to speed on the playbook (maybe 2 weeks, let alone the fact that they'll be on a bye Week 7). And if Smith continues his great play, you ride him until he isn't. Nothing to lose.

I believe a lot is riding on Sunday's game against the Lions. This is their first real competition, and a team with a very good, but inconsistent, defense. If Smith blows everyone away, it may be enough where they might offer a 3rd round pick for Carson (not really serious). But if they lose, and Smith and the offense stinks it up to add to his 3.5 games of stank, they'll be on the phone Monday.

So their 27 year old TE is up there in age? Jesus Palmer must be ancient them. Same with Gonzo and Heap, and Shockey and Gates.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I wonder if Brown would have sour grapes about trading his #1 draft pick to the franchise that beat us in 2 Superbowl games. What a disgrace the franchise has become.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Actually I said I watched the one and bits and pieces of others with my Sunday Ticket. If you say you watched any more than that, you're a liar, especially considering I believe 3 of their games were on at 1:00.

Games with 124 yards and 132 yards are not good games in any sense of the word. Combine that with less than 6 ypa despite completing 70.5% of his passes in those games and you have a QB giving you almost nothing, and a team that's protecting itself from the QB.

Game 3 speaks for itself. He sucked. Badly.

Yup, he's a world beater.

-------

You can't even keep your own argument straight. You went from "his play is fine" in the 3rd sentence to "he has looked good every game" in the very next to "he is playing really well" in the 8th.

Lets look at Palmers play from last year shall we? He only had 5 games where he averaged over 7 ypa. Smith already has 3 (on pace for 9.6). Palmer had 6 games with under a 6 yps. Smith has 0 so far (on pace for 0). Palmer threw 20 INT's. Smith has 1 (on pace for 3.2). Palmer threw 26 TD's. Smith has 7 (on pace for 22.4). Palmer threw 3,970 yards. Smith has 965 (on pace for 3088). Palmer had 61.8% completion. Smith has 66% completion. So Palmer has him on yards and TD's in that one. Smith has him on everything else, and by a wide margin while Palmer only beats him in TD's by 4 and yards by less than 900.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't disagree with most of those points. The one point I do disagree with is this: If the 9ers are 4-1 and winning, and they bring in palmer. It's going to take him at least 2 weeks to get up to speed, and in football condition. So they are going to go with Smith for at least 2 more weeks. If Smith now has to look over his shoulder, let's assume that he reverts to the Smith of old. Forcing the ball, forcing the play...now they've lost 2 and it was simply because they brought in Palmer...who hasn't even taken a snap yet.

Plus, if the 9ers season goes south after the Palmer trade...people will always second guess JH for making a trade during the season while the team was 4-1 and will point to that (rightfully or wrongly) as the reason for the demise. No coach is going to risk that. It's the same reason that so many coaches "go by the book" when making calls on whether to go for it on 4th down, kick a FG, or punt. So that at the end of the day they can say "I did it the way it should have been done...not my fault".

The logic in this whole thing dictates that the 9ers don't screw with success. "You don't fuck with a winning streak" kind of mentality. The 9ers are winning...you don't make a change that could conversley affect that. You simply can't slide in one player for another at such a key position and not expect something to give. If the slide and Palmer and they lose...the players will second guess their coach, other players will want Smith back in there...you are creating a divide.

Where as...if you let the season play out. Smith regresses to form. You trade for Palmer in the off-season and he gets a full off-season to get ready. Or, Smith continues to improve and shows he can handle the job, and then next year this is a moot point because Smith is going to stay with the 9ers and the 9ers will use those draft picks/trades on other areas of their team to upgrade their aging defense/RB positions.

Not saying Palmer wouldn't be an upgrade. Just saying..in sports. You don't fuck with winning. Period.

 

[flamingrey]

So I thought Davis was a little older than he actually is.

Mind stepping away from the strawman argument and refuting the points in the post.

Btw, TE's like WR, and unlike QB's, don't last forever in football years. This is Davis' 6th season. He might give them 3 (4 if he's lucky) more at an all-pro level. Still a valid point.

 

[DanBengalfan]

2015 The return of Carson Palmer.

unbelievable.

 

[cincygrad]

So I thought Davis was a little older than he actually is.

Mind stepping away from the strawman argument and refuting the points in the post.

Btw, TE's like WR, and unlike QB's, don't last forever in football years. This is Davis' 6th season. He might give them 3 (4 if he's lucky) more at an all-pro level. Still a valid point.

Running back doesn't matter. You can find them anywhere.

 

[Tubbs1518]

So I thought Davis was a little older than he actually is.

Mind stepping away from the strawman argument and refuting the points in the post.

Btw, TE's like WR, and unlike QB's, don't last forever in football years. This is Davis' 6th season. He might give them 3 (4 if he's lucky) more at an all-pro level. Still a valid point.

So Gonzo, Heap, Witten, Gates, Shockey are all just mirages out there? TE's play at a high level plenty old. And as for the points, Trent Dilfer, Rob Johnson. Neither were as good as Smith and they both won a SB with D and a running game. Well yeah players get older, congrats on that point Einstein. And as far as that aging D they have 3 players that are 30 or more. Justin Smith is the oldest at 32, then Carlos Rodgers and Sopoaga are 30. Not exactly ancient. Their O-Line is young. Their WR's are young. Their D is young. Their TE is young. They have 2 very capable RB's after Gore who are young (and Gore is only 28). So they aren't old. They are right in the middle of the pack as far as age goes at 15th. So I see no good points that you have made at all. Carry on your strawman argument about what if's and possiblies. Because that is all you have. You have 0 facts.

 

[Tubbs1518]

Running back doesn't matter. You can find them anywhere.

Exactly. Gore is a non issue, they can get another all pro anytime they need one.

 

[flamingrey]

I don't disagree with most of those points. The one point I do disagree with is this: If the 9ers are 4-1 and winning, and they bring in palmer. It's going to take him at least 2 weeks to get up to speed, and in football condition. So they are going to go with Smith for at least 2 more weeks. If Smith now has to look over his shoulder, let's assume that he reverts to the Smith of old. Forcing the ball, forcing the play...now they've lost 2 and it was simply because they brought in Palmer...who hasn't even taken a snap yet.

Plus, if the 9ers season goes south after the Palmer trade...people will always second guess JH for making a trade during the season while the team was 4-1 and will point to that (rightfully or wrongly) as the reason for the demise. No coach is going to risk that. It's the same reason that so many coaches "go by the book" when making calls on whether to go for it on 4th down, kick a FG, or punt. So that at the end of the day they can say "I did it the way it should have been done...not my fault".

The logic in this whole thing dictates that the 9ers don't screw with success. "You don't fuck with a winning streak" kind of mentality. The 9ers are winning...you don't make a change that could conversley affect that. You simply can't slide in one player for another at such a key position and not expect something to give. If the slide and Palmer and they lose...the players will second guess their coach, other players will want Smith back in there...you are creating a divide.

Where as...if you let the season play out. Smith regresses to form. You trade for Palmer in the off-season and he gets a full off-season to get ready. Or, Smith continues to improve and shows he can handle the job, and then next year this is a moot point because Smith is going to stay with the 9ers and the 9ers will use those draft picks/trades on other areas of their team to upgrade their aging defense/RB positions.

Not saying Palmer wouldn't be an upgrade. Just saying..in sports. You don't fuck with winning. Period.

Many valid points.

I'm not saying there aren't risks involved, because there are. Smith will be looking over his shoulder. And that's expected. They'll have 11 days before a game if they were to trade for Palmer at the deadline. They'd be on the bye. So essentially 3 weeks for Palmer to prepare with 1 game passed. The other key here is Smith has been a very small part of the offense and of the total success so far and they're protecting him. The risk there isn't very high.

The biggest one is the possibility of the season going south after the Palmer trade. Unlikely, but possible. It's important not to forget Smith will still be on the roster. That said, first of all, if Palmer is brought in, you can expect the owner to have a huge hand in it, so the backlash from the organization wouldn't be as bad. From the media and fans, that's a different story. Secondly, the 4th down comparison is an apples to oranges comparison to this situation. There is no "book" on this. This unique circumstance has probably never happened in NFL history. Plus, new coaches that come in like to have their own QB. Harbaugh inherited Smith. He's in no way committed to him.

You're overblowing the "players will second guess their coach". Denver, Indianapolis, and Jacksonville (twice) have all changed QBs. Players just roll with the punches. Additionally, players respect Palmer. His abilities and what he's done. There won't be a single player in the lockerroom (except for Smith) second guessing the switch from Smith to Palmer. Not one.

At the end of the day, if you have the chance to upgrade from an Alex Smith to a Carson Palmer, it's a risk you have to take (at the right price), whether you're the coach or owner. It's the definition of low risk, high reward.

As I said before, this Sunday will probably have a huge factor in it.