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Game Thread: CFP SEMIFINAL: Clemson (13-0) vs Ohio State (13-0) 8pm ET ESPN

Across The Field

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Yes, and I'm sure you have seen some of the same drills at Oregon teaching this. ATF is just being a blind homer to suggest you can't hit with your shoulder into a tackle. I guarantee you it is also taught at OSU, but in the heat of the play proper technique can't always apply and sometimes shit happens where unintended incidental contact happens. Those are going to still be called targeting under the rules today.
And this is why it is a horrible rule. At the end of the day, it's fucking football. The form that Wade exhibited is the same form made on 90% of wrap tackles around the midsection. Unfortunately for Wade, Lawrence dropped his helmet level and it created incidental contact. That's the crux of this entire conversation.
 

Across The Field

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Womp, womp. You lost, get over it.

Maybe OSU will hire better defensive coaches to teach their players proper form.
Don't need to. The defense was elite. Sorry Oregon choked and you're resorting to taking out your frustration on Oregon's daddy.
 

michaeljordan_fan

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And this is why it is a horrible rule. At the end of the day, it's fucking football. The form that Wade exhibited is the same form made on 90% of wrap tackles around the midsection. Unfortunately for Wade, Lawrence dropped his helmet level and it created incidental contact. That's the crux of this entire conversation.

Blame the rule, not the refs.

Unfortunately OSU has done a poor job on coaching their defenders to tackle properly. Maybe one day they'll fix it.
 

michaeljordan_fan

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Don't need to. The defense was elite. Sorry Oregon choked and you're resorting to taking out your frustration on Oregon's daddy.

I was wondering when you'd run out of excuses for your Suckeyes and would start lashing out at other teams...I'll give you credit, it took about 12 hours longer than I expected.
 

Across The Field

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Blame the rule, not the refs.

Unfortunately OSU has done a poor job on coaching their defenders to tackle properly. Maybe one day they'll fix it.
Pretty much 75% of the population is blaming the rule. It's why this is a discussion.
 

WizardHawk

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This is a horrible comparison. The DB here is not in a sprint and is making a tackle from basically a stand-still. So Wade should've stopped his full-on sprint right before he got to Lawrence? That's horrible technique that would've likely resulted in Lawrence easily breaking the tackle. Very, very different situations.
So moving your head a few degrees one way would have let Lawrence, who barely made any adjustment as he was about to get hit, now easily run out of contact? :L

Just stop man.

It is a fact they teach how to tackle without leading using a helmet as a weapon. This is pure fact. It is also a fact that every player in the heat of a play sometimes still has their helmet going forward as a weapon. Most of the time it doesn't result in a penalty. This again is part of the problem. The problem is the rule, not the enforcement. It isn't going to get called unless that leading helmet also makes direct contact with another players helmet or somewhere in the head/neck area and won't be called 100% of the time because it isn't always interpreted the same.

The rule is the problem, not the call in this play.

OSU had an outstanding year and I would have loved to have seen LSU/OSU, but they didn't earn it. They couldn't stop Lawrence when they needed to, failed to score in the first half when they could have pulled away, failed to stop the drive that lead to Clemson taking the lead late, and then threw a pick that shouldn't have happened.

Now on to watching LSU undress Clemson and take their crown.
 

ElTexan

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No, but I can see how your peabrain might think it is.
Eyes down. Head before shoulders. Arms wrap at point of contact. It’s the exact same play... only difference? The offensive player shifts his position at the last moment in one play and not the other.
 

Across The Field

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I was wondering when you'd run out of excuses for your Suckeyes and would start lashing out at other teams...I'll give you credit, it took about 12 hours longer than I expected.
And there's the mark of a man who has lost the argument. Nice talking with you. Good luck in Eugene next year.
 

michaeljordan_fan

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So moving your head a few degrees one way would have let Lawrence, who barely made any adjustment as he was about to get hit, now easily run out of contact? :L

Just stop man.

It is a fact they teach how to tackle without leading using a helmet as a weapon. This is pure fact. It is also a fact that every player in the heat of a play sometimes still has their helmet going forward as a weapon. Most of the time it doesn't result in a penalty. This again is part of the problem. The problem is the rule, not the enforcement. It isn't going to get called unless that leading helmet also makes direct contact with another players helmet or somewhere in the head/neck area and won't be called 100% of the time because it isn't always interpreted the same.

The rule is the problem, not the call in this play.

OSU had an outstanding year and I would have loved to have seen LSU/OSU, but they didn't earn it. They couldn't stop Lawrence when they needed to, failed to score in the first half when they could have pulled away, failed to stop the drive that lead to Clemson taking the lead late, and then threw a pick that shouldn't have happened.

Now on to watching LSU undress Clemson and take their crown.

Careful with your words, a crown is how we got into this mess.
 

batchaps4me

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The problem was he was treated the same exact way that the OU player was treated, even though one was clearly targeting and an attempt to hurt the other player while the other was a bang-bang play with no intent to harm that wound up incidentally being helmet to helmet, and on the QB no less. If Wade made that exact same hit on Etienne, there's no penalty at all. Lawrence should get an Emmy for his acting job, because without it, it probably doesn't get called either.

Intent is not a part of the equation, nor should it be IF you agree that player safety is the reason for the targeting rule. There was no valid reason … like he was being blocked and falling … for him to hit with the crown of his helmet.
 

Across The Field

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So moving your head a few degrees one way would have let Lawrence, who barely made any adjustment as he was about to get hit, now easily run out of contact? :L

Just stop man.

It is a fact they teach how to tackle without leading using a helmet as a weapon. This is pure fact. It is also a fact that every player in the heat of a play sometimes still has their helmet going forward as a weapon. Most of the time it doesn't result in a penalty. This again is part of the problem. The problem is the rule, not the enforcement. It isn't going to get called unless that leading helmet also makes direct contact with another players helmet or somewhere in the head/neck area and won't be called 100% of the time because it isn't always interpreted the same.

The rule is the problem, not the call in this play.

OSU had an outstanding year and I would have loved to have seen LSU/OSU, but they didn't earn it. They couldn't stop Lawrence when they needed to, failed to score in the first half when they could have pulled away, failed to stop the drive that lead to Clemson taking the lead late, and then threw a pick that shouldn't have happened.

Now on to watching LSU undress Clemson and take their crown.
No, coming to a near complete stop and losing all forward momentum would've. What Wade did is exhibit pure wrapping technique. It was a penalty because of Lawrence's decision to lower his helmet.
 

michaeljordan_fan

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And there's the mark of a man who has lost the argument. Nice talking with you. Good luck in Eugene next year.

Wish I could say the same...unfortunately people in Ohio just don't know the rules of the game.
 

ElTexan

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This conversation is already over. It's clear that it was a catch and fumble that was horribly botched.
If that play happened during the CFP NCG in the end zone while your team is on defense as the clock struck triple zeroes, you’d accept that as the game winning TD that lost you the Natty?
 

osubuckeye89

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And this is why it is a horrible rule. At the end of the day, it's fucking football. The form that Wade exhibited is the same form made on 90% of wrap tackles around the midsection. Unfortunately for Wade, Lawrence dropped his helmet level and it created incidental contact. That's the crux of this entire conversation.

Anyone who thinks it’s really about player safety is joking themselves. Its basically the NCAA protecting their own ass with all the concussion stuff “look we made a penalty if someone gets hit in the head”. The great majority of targeting penalties are incidental bang bang plays. But the rule allows the NCAA to say “we did something”
 

michaeljordan_fan

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No, coming to a near complete stop and losing all forward momentum would've. What Wade did is exhibit pure wrapping technique. It was a penalty because of Lawrence's decision to lower his helmet.

Initial contact was with the crown of the helmet, the wrap came later.

Keep spinning...
 

Across The Field

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If that play happened during the CFP NCG in the end zone while your team is on defense as the clock struck triple zeroes, you’d accept that as the game winning TD that lost you the Natty?
Yes, 100%. It was a catch, so how could you argue it?
 

Across The Field

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Anyone who thinks it’s really about player safety is joking themselves. Its basically the NCAA protecting their own ass with all the concussion stuff “look we made a penalty if someone gets hit in the head”. The great majority of targeting penalties are incidental bang bang plays. But the rule allows the NCAA to say “we did something”
:dingdingding:
 

michaeljordan_fan

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Anyone who thinks it’s really about player safety is joking themselves. Its basically the NCAA protecting their own ass with all the concussion stuff “look we made a penalty if someone gets hit in the head”. The great majority of targeting penalties are incidental bang bang plays. But the rule allows the NCAA to say “we did something”

Of course it is. The rule is dumb.
 

Across The Field

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Initial contact was with the crown of the helmet, the wrap came later.

Keep spinning...
Actually the helmet contact and shoulder contact were simultaneous. However, his helmet his Lawrence's helmet after Lawrence dropped his helmet level.
 
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