Celtics Off-Season - the Quest for AD

[dtgold88]

The mans name is “Buckets”

23 tonight GMan. And he plays D

What a steal dude

I do like him (and wanted him at 26 before the draft), but Summer League means next to nothing. Rather our guys play well than not though.

 

[The Q]

I do like him (and wanted him at 26 before the draft), but Summer League means next to nothing. Rather our guys play well than not though.

I Liked windler.

Trade? Lol

 

[Gman]

@The Q
@LogicMan

I've followed the Celtics during Summer League for a few years... not everyone gets to watch as closely as I do, so I'll share my take on what I saw.

First of all, the C's... (even without top draft pick Romeo Langford due to an injury)... had a relatively talented roster compared to their competition. So yes: they won most of their games... but they should have and better have given their talent.

Final scores mean almost nothing, regardless. Here's what I noticed from the players:

Carsen Edwards - Natural born scorer. Has plus 3 point range, hit mid range shots and runners, got to the basket and finished, hustled away from the ball to get open... Edwards was wildly impressive. This kid is gonna get minutes with the main roster this season, that's my prediction.

Defensively, it is what it is. Edwards hustles and is built well for his height, but he is never gonna be a plus defender. What'll be interesting to watch is...

... Edwards is the epitome of a 'score first PG.' Is he gonna have the same green light at the top level to play his game, especially at first? You don't play this kid unless you give him free reign. The C's could potentially run a very similar style offense with either Kemba or Edwards on the floor... which is intriguing for a team that has been prone to scoring lulls without a lead dog on the floor.

Tacko Fall - I was impressed with how athletic and fluid Tacko is for a man of his height. I was expecting a total side show stiff... but Tacko is better than that. He was even able to mirror a little and move his feet on defense.

That being said: I just didn't see "NBA player" out of what I saw. Getting up and down the court is always gonna be a chore for the big man, Tacko brings no shooting whatsoever (foul shooting is abysmal, too), and Tacko struggled to create a position in the post. Too often Fall was not able to shield his defender from an entry pass or was unable to corral quick passes sent his way in traffic.

I don't see it.

Robert Williams III - I was modestly pleased with what I saw out of the athletic center. Second year for Time Lord so he should be showing some positive things... and he did flash here and there. RWIII moves extremely well for a guy his size, showed some touch around the basket, and showed some passing skills that I hadn't seen previously.

That being said: I still saw some of the rough spots in his game, particularly when it comes to defense. Williams still does not always take the best position when forced to move and adjust and read the opposition, and he has a terrible habit of biting on pump fakes. On offense, he is also a little soft around the rim outside of his patented lob throw downs.

I did see slow progress. Williams was a little better. But to ultimately earn minutes and be what we need him to be, RWIII needs something to "click" on defense in his head.

Tremont Waters - My expectations out of the late 2nd round pick were little to none, but Waters can play a little. He was in control and often ran the Celtics offense when he was on the floor. Waters showed a functional 3 pt shot and also made a couple of crafty floaters. He also flashed on defense, showing the skills that made him DPY in the SEC last year... Tremont anticipates and has a nose for steals.

But... dude is 5'11". At that height, you have to be elite in terms of quickness and skill in order to carve out a niche at the top level. And I didn't see elite quickness out of Waters. He'll be a D league project, but I am pessimistic about him developing into a NBA minutes guy.

Grant Williams - Last but not least, let's talk husky Grant. Theoretically, Grant Williams has perhaps the greatest opening to earn playing time in the upcoming season because of the weird depth chart the Celtics have at the traditional 4 spot.

So I was glad to see so many good things out of Williams in Summer League.

The top concern coming in was 3 pt shooting... but Grant showed off a developing stroke from beyond the arc, and he was willing to take his opportunities there. It seemed to me that this is a skill that Williams can develop with time and practice, I am optimistic on this front.

Beyond that, I was also impressed with Grant Williams from a defensive point-of-view. Not that Grant is a monster at that end or anything... but what I saw was him maximizing his potential on that end by consistently making good reads/decisions. I was a little worried about his lateral quickness, but Williams showed the ability to mirror and slide his big body.

Finally, husky Grant can pass the ball and handle the ball fairly well. On more than one occasion, Grant was able to corral a defensive rebound and then push the ball up the floor himself with a surprising burst of speed. That took me by surprise a little. He was steady and in control in these scenarios.

Being able to crack the line up for real minutes is gonna depend on that 3 pt shot, though. If that develops a little bit more, Williams could become a bench player as early as this season.

 

[Gman]

One of the highlight plays from Summer League... Robert Williams III with a good pass from the high post, Grant Williams with the corner 3.

 

[trojanfan12]

Tacko Fall - I was impressed with how athletic and fluid Tacko is for a man of his height. I was expecting a total side show stiff... but Tacko is better than that. He was even able to mirror a little and move his feet on defense.

That being said: I just didn't see "NBA player" out of what I saw. Getting up and down the court is always gonna be a chore for the big man, Tacko brings no shooting whatsoever (foul shooting is abysmal, too), and Tacko struggled to create a position in the post. Too often Fall was not able to shield his defender from an entry pass or was unable to corral quick passes sent his way in traffic.

I don't see it.

I kind of liked him when I saw him in the NCAA tourney. There's some potential there and 10 years ago, he's probably a solid starter at the least.

In today's NBA, he's a project. I'd sign him as either a 2-way or an end of the bench guy.

Immediate future, you could probably throw him out there every now and then for rim protection and play him mop up minutes.

But, unless the NBA changes back to being dominated by "back to the basket" bigs or at least finds a happy medium, his ceiling is probably as a career backup/spot starter.

 

[Gman]

I kind of liked him when I saw him in the NCAA tourney. There's some potential there and 10 years ago, he's probably a solid starter at the least.

In today's NBA, he's a project. I'd sign him as either a 2-way or an end of the bench guy.

Immediate future, you could probably throw him out there every now and then for rim protection and play him mop up minutes.

But, unless the NBA changes back to being dominated by "back to the basket" bigs or at least finds a happy medium, his ceiling is probably as a career backup/spot starter.

Even useful bench guy is optimistic, IMO.

Two reasons:

1.) The NBA has changed, like you said. Just getting up and down the floor, Tacko is gonna be an anchor... and today's basketball is all about movement and pace.

2.) Tacko noticeably struggled to make himself a presence in the post, and then failed to control several tight pass attempts sent his way. If he has trouble with that in SL, the real inside men in the NBA would muscle him into oblivion.

 

[trojanfan12]

1.) The NBA has changed, like you said. Just getting up and down the floor, Tacko is gonna be an anchor... and today's basketball is all about movement and pace.

Imo, he'd have to be like "old Kareem" with the Showtime Lakers. The other 4 would be flying down the court and Kareem would hang back. He'd be the last one up the court and available when they had to play in the half court.

Not saying he'll ever even be as good as "old Kareem", but it would be a way to use him.

2.) Tacko noticeably struggled to make himself a presence in the post, and then failed to control several tight pass attempts sent his way. If he has trouble with that in SL, the real inside men in the NBA would muscle him into oblivion.

He'd definitely need to get into an NBA training regimen which could help with his agility, strength, etc.

You may well be right that it may be a stretch for him to even be a useful bench guy. But imo, there appears to at least be enough to work with to keep him around for a couple of seasons or so to see what he can become.

 

[Gman]

Celtics officially sign 2nd round draft pick Carsen Edwards to 4 year deal

Tasty.

 

[The Q]

Celtics officially sign 2nd round draft pick Carsen Edwards to 4 year deal

Tasty.

How did they do this? I thought they blew their mle on kanter?

I’m assuming the last 2 years aren’t guaranteed and that’s a loophole?

 

[Gman]

How did they do this? I thought they blew their mle on kanter?

I’m assuming the last 2 years aren’t guaranteed and that’s a loophole?

Official contract details have not been released yet, as far as I'm aware.

But early word is 4 years, $4.5 million.

Could be back-loaded with very little money in year one.

 

[The Q]

Official contract details have not been released yet, as far as I'm aware.

But early word is 4 years, $4.5 million.

Could be back-loaded with very little money in year one.

Form what I understand you need to use mle money for contracts for second round picks over 2 years

 

[Gman]

Form what I understand you need to use mle money for contracts for second round picks over 2 years

Hmmm. I know very little about it... so you know better than me.

It'll be interesting to see when the details do come out.

 

[Gman]

@The Q

Looks like the C's just opened up a lil cap space in the last day or two... so this might be the answer to our question from yesterday.

C's open up additional cap space

 

[The Q]

@The Q

Looks like the C's just opened up a lil cap space in the last day or two... so this might be the answer to our question from yesterday.

C's open up additional cap space

Interesting move.

 

[flyerhawk]

So who is the Celtics starting center? Do they have a center?

 

[The Q]

So who is the Celtics starting center? Do they have a center?

Kanter and big swat bob will probably get most of the run.

Plus they have the Berlin Wall and New Frenchy.

It’s like center by committee

 

[Gman]

So who is the Celtics starting center? Do they have a center?

Here's an updated depth chart of my own making... (not official)

PG - Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Brad Wanamaker, Carsen Edwards, Tremont Waters

SG - Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Gordon Hayward, Romeo Langford, Brad Wanamaker, Max Strus

SF - Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Semi Ojeleye, Romeo Langford, Grant Williams, Max Strus

PF - Jayson Tatum, Daniel Theis, Semi Ojeleye, Grant Williams

C - Enes Kanter, Daniel Theis, Vincent Poirier, Robert Williams III, Semi Ojeleye

-----------

Bigs are the weaker area of the Celtics, but they do have a workable rotation at the 5.

Kanter is what he is... (good offensive rebound and garbage basket guy, bad defensively).... the Frenchy Poirier is supposed to the defensive counterpart, he is athletic but can't shoot.

Theis can shoot a little, but he is undersized for the 5.

Williams is the up-and-comer, but will need to play better team defense to earn minutes.

 

[flyerhawk]

Kanter and big swat bob will probably get most of the run.

Plus they have the Berlin Wall and New Frenchy.

It’s like center by committee

I forgot you guys got Kanter. So he's your starting center?

 

[The Q]

I forgot you guys got Kanter. So he's your starting center?

I'm hopeful that Big Swat Bob takes the next step in his development and becomes that guy by the end of the season. But I'd guess on Day 1 it's going to be Kanter.

 

[The Q]

The debate of Brandon Clarke vs grant and Edwards will rage on for a while.