Carlos Beltran a HOFer??

[SlinkyRedfoot]

And while we're talking about the best centerfielders since Jr.

Major League Leaderboards » 2016 » Center Feilders » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

<smashes Grady Sizemore bobblehead>

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Fangraphs rates Sizemore just ahead of him (21.6 to 20.2) from 06-08, but Sizemore also had about 300 more PA. Beltran had more WAR per 500 PA though. The gap between them and everyone else is pretty big (Grandy's 3rd at 16.0). Beltran's 133 wRC+ was the highest among center fielders over that span as well. Beltran's 20.2 WAR rates 4th among all players over that span though, behind only Pujols/Utley/Sizemore. David Wright is 5th at 20.1.

<smashes the broken bits of Grady Sizemore bobblehead>

 

[navamind]

It's crazy how Trout comes out ahead despite having like 2/3 of McCutchen's playing time.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

Homersayswhat?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

My point being that he was the man for that short period. Beltran never had that kind of run.

Lincecum was fantastic for two years. Beltran has been a good-to-great MLBer for nineteen years.

I'm not saying that Beltran should be in the HOF, but if your criteria puts Lincecum closer to Cooperstown than Beltran, you should probably wipe your ass with your criteria.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Longevity is a very under-rated stat...

People hate compilers, I think HOF is about career... What is a better stat for career than games played and/or seasons played???

Longevity and even more so durability are important factors to me.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

If Timmy magically turns in another All-Star season I'd hand write HOF letters in support of that ugly little gremlin.

Otherwise you need to start looking at Johan Santana, Cliff Lee, and company and think if they're HOFers or not. He was really really good but not for very long.

Lincecum can't hold Lee's jock.

From 2008 through 2014, Lee had a 2.93 ERA (138 ERA+) and averaged over 200 IP per season. 2008 and 2009 were the only seasons Lincecum had an ERA+ better than 138.

Like Beltran, I'm not saying Lee should be in the HOF, but I'm honestly shocked anyone is even talking about Lincecum and the HOF.

Lincecum first three seasons - 150 ERA+
Lincecum subsequent seven seasons - 89 ERA+

Talk about a flash in the pan.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

People also seem to think advanced stats are at play in HOF voting.

Which they aren't.

Milestones, dominance and "fame" are at play imo. And what goes into fame can vary.

You stretch your career out for 20 years and pick up 150 knocks a year, no other stat is going to matter. You're in. Or you can do backflips and cartwheels on the way out to your position. That also seems to work.

Generally speaking, I agree with this. However, I get the feeling that you consider anything other than BA, HR & RBIs as "advanced stats."

I'm of the opinion that OBP, SLG, OPS and maybe even OPS+ are being considered by the BBWAA and whatnot.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Generally speaking, I agree with this. However, I get the feeling that you consider anything other than BA, HR & RBIs as "advanced stats."

I'm of the opinion that OBP, SLG, OPS and maybe even OPS+ are being considered by the BBWAA and whatnot.

Especially moreso nowadays since their recent purge where they got rid of the writers who haven't covered baseball in decades (which likely got rid of many of the older voters who stick to the old school stats).

 

[calsnowskier]

IMHO, he is not a HOFer.

Is there no one in this thread who can read??

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Is there no one in this thread who can read??

I can. I read words about Tim Lincecum on a "is X an HOFer."

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

 

[Voltaire26]

I vote no because maybe isn't an option.

If he were a infielder, I would have voted probably.

If he were a catcher, absolutely.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Especially moreso nowadays since their recent purge where they got rid of the writers who haven't covered baseball in decades (which likely got rid of many of the older voters who stick to the old school stats).

Good point. I felt like we saw the needle move toward progressive thought in 2010 when Felix Hernandez won the CY with a 13-12 record.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I vote no because maybe isn't an option.

If he were a infielder, I would have voted probably.

If he were a catcher, absolutely.

So, you like his numbers from first or third better than you do out of CF?

 

[Voltaire26]

So, you like his numbers from first or third better than you do out of CF?

More 3rd ... I am a little tougher on 1st base. Middle Infielder ... In!!!

 

[navamind]

I'd love to see a catcher steal 300+ bases. Jason Kendall stole 189 (though he got caught 89 times).

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Good question on Beltran. Me personally I have no problem with him being in the HOF. Guy ran like a gazelle as he had over 300 SB with most of that coming the 1st 10 years and with over 500 doubles and 400 HRs has a slg pct around 500. And what he did for Houston in 2/3 of a season was incredible as he about carried that team on his back and I cannot stand that team so I am not being a homer on remembering that. Plus some great years with the Mets. Excellent all around player. So why not - HOF

 

[Villain]

I'd love to see a catcher steal 300+ bases. Jason Kendall stole 189 (though he got caught 89 times).

Russell Martin is 2 away from 100. I think that is fun.

 

[HammerDown]

Carlos Beltran is a cheater and has ties to PEDs.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree with others, just short of HOF but that doesn't mean he won't make it in. Puckett made it in as a 1st ballot and he wasn't a better player than Carlos. It's pretty messed up