Carlos Beltran a HOFer??

[mr.hockey4242]

Dude keeps killing the shitty ass twins lol.

If he finds a way to hang on for like 3 more years productively and get to 3,000 he won't be denied.

Still a long way off though.

 

[calsnowskier]

Dude keeps killing the shitty ass twins lol.

If he finds a way to hang on for like 3 more years productively and get to 3,000 he won't be denied.

Still a long way off though.

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

Yeah I'm not really saying it should get him in and I don't think he gets there anyways. But 3,000 would make him a lock based off how things go.

It's true about counting stats though, many times its just about being able to stay in the game and "hang on".

But if he did happen to get to 3,000 in 3 years it would mean that he was pretty damn productive til the end.

 

[navamind]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

Lincecum's 2-3 good years aren't better than Johan's. Or Verlander. Or Kevin Appier.

 

[da55bums]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

the HOF is and has been about accumulated stats? and being the guy

 

[calsnowskier]

Lincecum's 2-3 good years aren't better than Johan's. Or Verlander. Or Kevin Appier.

My point being that he was the man for that short period. Beltran never had that kind of run.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Longevity is a very under-rated stat...

People hate compilers, I think HOF is about career... What is a better stat for career than games played and/or seasons played???

 

[Villain]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

If Timmy magically turns in another All-Star season I'd hand write HOF letters in support of that ugly little gremlin.

Otherwise you need to start looking at Johan Santana, Cliff Lee, and company and think if they're HOFers or not. He was really really good but not for very long.

 

[broncosmitty]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

Timmy ain't an HOFer.

But man was he ever awesome.

 

[broncosmitty]

Longevity is a very under-rated stat...

People hate compilers, I think HOF is about career... What is a better stat for career than games played and/or seasons played???

People also seem to think advanced stats are at play in HOF voting.

Which they aren't.

Milestones, dominance and "fame" are at play imo. And what goes into fame can vary.

You stretch your career out for 20 years and pick up 150 knocks a year, no other stat is going to matter. You're in. Or you can do backflips and cartwheels on the way out to your position. That also seems to work.

 

[calsnowskier]

Did every miss this part of my post???

IMHO, he is not a HOFer.

 

[StanMarsh51]

That's why I am not a fan of accumulated stats. Dude was never one of the ultra-elite players. He was good. He was a legit all-star. But he was never THE guy (or one of THE guys). Never.

And THAT is what the HOF is, IMHO.

There are exceptions to that of course (like Ichiro, who I support for the hall - but at least he has an MVP), but that is my first question when looking at a player for the hall.

I actually think Timmeh is a better question. He was THE guy for 2 or 3 years. The problem is that he disappeared after that run. IMHO, he is not a HOFer. But I think his argument is more valid than Beltran's.

I think you're underrating him...not sure what you consider 'ultra elite,' but a solid case can be made that Beltran was a top 5 player for a 3-6 year stretch (possibly 2003-2008, but certainly from 2006-2008 at the least).

 

[navamind]

I think you're underrating him...not sure what you consider 'ultra elite,' but a solid case can be made that Beltran was a top 5 player for a 3-6 year stretch (possibly 2003-2008, but certainly from 2006-2008 at the least).

See my post on the previous page.

Per Fangraphs, Beltran ranks 3rd in WAR at 35.8 from 03-08, behind only Pujols (49.6) and A-Rod (44.1). Those guys were putting up historically good years.

 

[Villain]

People also seem to think advanced stats are at play in HOF voting.

Which they aren't.

Milestones, dominance and "fame" are at play imo. And what goes into fame can vary.

You stretch your career out for 20 years and pick up 150 knocks a year, no other stat is going to matter. You're in. Or you can do backflips and cartwheels on the way out to your position. That also seems to work.

Your post is a good example of why so many HOF voters are terrible.

 

[Villain]

See my post on the previous page.

Per Fangraphs, Beltran ranks 3rd in WAR at 35.8 from 03-08, behind only Pujols (49.6) and A-Rod (44.1). Those guys were putting up historically good years.

Is Chase Utley a Hall of Famer? Move the goal posts one year forward (04-09) and Beltran gets passed up Utley, being trailed narrowly by Grady Sizemore and David Wright.

Hall of Very Good.

 

[broncosmitty]

Your post is a good example of why so many HOF voters are terrible.

It's the way it is.

The way it always has been. I didn't give Ty Cobb more votes than Babe Ruth on the icebreaker ballot. Lol

The HOF isn't a list and everything is weighted.(I don't think JV is a HOFer, feel like I need to get that out there. Unless he wins a couple WS MVPs... No on Utley as well. Bigger no than Beltran. Bout the same as Timmy, unless he goes Frank Tanana on us. Drag that shiz out for decades. )

It's a similar thing most ery year with MVP.

I don't think there would be a rule to another honorary museum being created. It could include different players. Id have no objection whatsoever. Hell, I'd go.

 

[Villain]

It's the way it is.

The way it always has been.

That doesn't make it okay. BBWAA needs a drastic overhaul. Step one: call it BWAA because Baseball is one word.

 

[broncosmitty]

That doesn't make it okay. BBWAA needs a drastic overhaul. Step one: call it BWAA because Baseball is one word.

Start It Up!

Easier than an overhaul. And better than changing what's already there.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Is Chase Utley a Hall of Famer? Move the goal posts one year forward (04-09) and Beltran gets passed up Utley, being trailed narrowly by Grady Sizemore and David Wright.

Hall of Very Good.

Utley has the peak/prime of a HOFer but maybe not the longevity (imo there needs to be some combination of the two).

I'd argue Beltran has enough of both to be HOF worthy.


Wright was on track for a HOF career before injuries derailed him in the past 4-5 years...I don't think that's a knock on Beltran that he's in good company.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I would say Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds are right there with him.

EDIT: Look how close these three are. Edmonds only got 2.5% of the vote last year and he's not eligible anymore.

Major League Leaderboards » 2016 » Batters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

They are very similar. I did notice that Beltran has 18% more PAs than Jones and 28% more than Edmunds.

Also, Jim Edmunds looks Canadian.