Broncos Hero is a Cheater....

[eaglesnut]

Also just a quick note before this whole thing gets out of control. Miller was not trying to cover up "Doping". He was in the drug and alcohol side of testing positive. He had been caught twice with weed in his system. This was not a PED issue. This was a drug issue. So no he wasn't cheating in the sense of getting a leg up on the competition by using steroids. He just liked weed.

Well weed is good for athletes that bang their heads for a living. So good on him for protecting himself.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Why do you not consider smoking pot as cheating? It's against NFL rules. Thus it's cheating whether it gives you an unfair advantage or not. Do I think it's stupid, yes but it's a rule. Breaking a rule = cheating.

The actual definition of cheating is "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination"

That's it, you can say you don't care whether it gives you an unfair advantage or not, but then the word you are looking for is NOT cheating, it is rulebreaking. The entire reason cheating is it's own word, is that it is a specific type of rule-breaking that gives you an advantage.

Take it this way. Who cheated on their math test?

1. Student A copies the answers off of another student who has straight A's in the class.
2. Student B is found to have alcohol in their bookbag and kicked out of class.

Both kicked out of the test and both receive a 0 score. Student A cheated on his math test. Student B broke a rule of the school but did not cheat on the test.

To me, cheating is trying to gain an unfair advantage (the actual definition of it). If you break the off-field conduct rules, and get suspended, I don't consider that cheating at football. So for me, Adrian Peterson didn't cheat at football when he beat his kid. That action had zero effect on the Vikings performance.

 

[eaglesnut]

Oldschool didn't get penalized for cheating. The Ravens did. That has nothing to do with Von Miller getting caught for cheating.

And Miller wasn't busted for weed; he was busted for using a product to make his piss falsely look clean. That's cheating. People use that for PEDs.

He was?

 

[eaglesnut]

He gave a diluted urine sample. Masking agents mask more than just marijuana. I'm not going to take his word for it that he wasn't cheating. You dilute your piss: you're a cheater. Those are the rules, and he gets paid millions to abide by them.

Diluted just means water. It doesn't mean he peed and then put water in it afterwards. Let the man hydrate. Damn.

 

[Broncos6482]

I agree there. As for the "most likely pot" for failing a drug test, that kind of falls in the "most likely a tainted supplement" for failing a PED test. NFL doesn't give out that info. I wouldn't be surprised it was pot, but you are taking Von's word and only his word on that one as the NFL doesn't release the type of drug used.

Fair enough. I think it was pot, but yeah, it could have been some other recreational drug.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Fair enough. I think it was pot, but yeah, it could have been some other recreational drug.

Yup, I would say myself though that if I was going to put money on a drug, pot would be the one I'd choose. Pretty simple to pass an NFL drug test, you basically know around when you will be tested and then are good to go, and most other recreational drugs are out of your system in a hurry. So while it's stupid to get busted for pot, it's REALLY stupid to get busted for something that's out of your system within a week.

 

[eaglesnut]

Spilled urine, diluted urine led to Von Miller mess

"Adam Schefter of ESPN reported that when Miller went to give a urine sample to the drug tester, it was spilled. When Miller then came back later to give the drug tester another urine sample, that sample was found to be diluted."

That's called cheating.

If he peed once and then had to pee again shortly after then he had to drink water in between. That will dilute it.

 

[The Q]

Why are we fighting?

At least he doesn't cheat as much as Tom Brady.

 

[eaglesnut]

Why do you not consider smoking pot as cheating? It's against NFL rules. Thus it's cheating whether it gives you an unfair advantage or not. Do I think it's stupid, yes but it's a rule. Breaking a rule = cheating.

You are right. The NFL doesn't want their players getting all the redeeming medical qualities of weed. Smoking weed cheats every player on the opposite team that's not smoking and also all the players on his own team behind him in the depth chart that aren't smoking. Smoking weed cheats the game.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

If he peed once and then had to pee again shortly after then he had to drink water in between. That will dilute it.

Yup, he probably would have kept up his pursuit of an appeal if that was the case. What sources say (this is where it gets foggy as the NFL doesn't release details of this, I believe due to CBA bargained HIPAA rights), is Von Miller befriended the urine collector who used someone else's urine for the test, and another collector caught it when he was going to test Von in training camp in Colorado, but his test was turned in that day from Miami.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You are right. The NFL doesn't want their players getting all the redeeming medical qualities of weed. Smoking weed cheats every player on the opposite team that's not smoking and also all the players on his own team behind him in the depth chart that aren't smoking. Smoking weed cheats the game.

Lol, that is where you could make the case that smoking pot is cheating. Saying it gives you a benefit over the legal drugs available. I have a tough time buying that one. Plus the FDA and NFL (both league and NFLPA) agree it isn't.

 

[Stink Foot]

The actual definition of cheating is "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination"

That's it, you can say you don't care whether it gives you an unfair advantage or not, but then the word you are looking for is NOT cheating, it is rulebreaking. The entire reason cheating is it's own word, is that it is a specific type of rule-breaking that gives you an advantage.

Take it this way. Who cheated on their math test?

1. Student A copies the answers off of another student who has straight A's in the class.
2. Student B is found to have alcohol in their bookbag and kicked out of class.

Both kicked out of the test and both receive a 0 score. Student A cheated on his math test. Student B broke a rule of the school but did not cheat on the test.

To me, cheating is trying to gain an unfair advantage (the actual definition of it). If you break the off-field conduct rules, and get suspended, I don't consider that cheating at football. So for me, Adrian Peterson didn't cheat at football when he beat his kid. That action had zero effect on the Vikings performance.

This sounds right to me.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm not debating that he tried to cheat the test. He did, and I agree, that's cheating. What I am debating is Ninersickness' baseless accusation that he used PEDs. He did not, it was substance abuse, most likely marijuana.

You don't know that. You COULDN'T know that because the test was diluted. All we know is that he cheated.

 

[NinerSickness]

If he peed once and then had to pee again shortly after then he had to drink water in between. That will dilute it.

No. That's not true.

 

[eaglesnut]

No. That's not true.

lol yes that would be true. Water dilutes things. Do you need a quick lesson?

 

[eaglesnut]

Yup, he probably would have kept up his pursuit of an appeal if that was the case. What sources say (this is where it gets foggy as the NFL doesn't release details of this, I believe due to CBA bargained HIPAA rights), is Von Miller befriended the urine collector who used someone else's urine for the test, and another collector caught it when he was going to test Von in training camp in Colorado, but his test was turned in that day from Miami.

Awesome. Too bad his scheme didn't work. That would be great to corrupt a corrupt process.

 

[NinerSickness]

lol yes that would be true. Water dilutes things. Do you need a quick lesson?

Then you're talking about a while when you say "shortly after" because your pee isn't instantly diluted just from drinking water. It takes a while for water to get through your system.

But you don't really have a point because there are procedures to piss tests, and Von broke them. He "spilled" the first sample and gave a diluted sample on the 2nd one. He cheated.

 

[chf]

lol yes that would be true. Water dilutes things. Do you need a quick lesson?

How does it effect global warming?

 

[Broncos6482]

You don't know that. You COULDN'T know that because the test was diluted. All we know is that he cheated.

That's what the NFL said though, so...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

That's what the NFL said though, so...

Well he's half right there. You can't be sure what recreational drug he used.

As for the PED's he is right.

The testing for recreational drugs is seperate from the PED testing.

The recreational drug testing is one test, almost always during training camp (can be given between 4/20 and Aug 9). Almost always done during training camp though as that's when they don't have to run around the world hunting down all the players during the off-season.

It's just like a workplace drug test, not looking for PED's, but the recreational drugs. Cocaine, Marijuana, Amphetamines, Opiates, MDMA, alcohol (if in a treatment plan that prohibits alcohol), etc. That is it. Can be juiced up all you want, doesn't matter because that is the Drug test, not the PED test.

That is the test Von failed. So he is right it wasn't a suspension for PED's.