BRING ZIM BACK AFTER VIKES FIRE HIM

[flamingrey]

I think it's a stretch to blame Dalton for the Panthers loss. The guy played without his top two receivers and his defense gave up 37 points. When the pressure was highest (when we were down or tied) he led his team on long scoring drives and one drive that should have been a score. He made one bad decision the entire game -- He shouldn't have thrown that long third down pass to Gresham. Interestingly, that didn't cost us as their kicker missed. His other INT wasn't a bad decision - It was executed poorly.

If you want to blame a unit for the loss, I think the blame goes to the defense.

I don't blame Dalton.

I used those posts simply as an example that the questions that I've posed of Dalton and the Bengals in the past haven't been "hate", but reality. So while that first post was related only to Dalton, I posted that because it represents my general feelings towards the Bengals as a team.

That's also why I left Dalton's name out of the snip I quoted. I had those 2 games marked off on the calendar, and despite the Panthers being worse than originally thought, the Bengals as a team failed.

This Sunday will also be another big benchmark, but the way I see it, they have a ton of ground to make up.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't blame Dalton.

I used those posts simply as an example that the questions that I've posed of Dalton and the Bengals in the past haven't been "hate", but reality. So while that first post was related only to Dalton, I posted that because it represents my general feelings towards the Bengals as a team.

I would agree with you. I have significant concern about the direction this team is heading right now. I think a lot of it is because we have more injuries than expected and less depth than desired. And we miss Zimmer.

 

[alf8478]

Am I the only one who remembers the defense folding or not showing up in a big spot under Zimmer, or are we not allowed to talk about that?

 

[flamingrey]

Am I the only one who remembers the defense folding or not showing up in a big spot under Zimmer, or are we not allowed to talk about that?

Feel free.

I still recall Zimmer defenses being decimated by injuries whether it be to Atkins, Hall, etc. and still thriving.

 

[cincygrad]

Am I the only one who remembers the defense folding or not showing up in a big spot under Zimmer, or are we not allowed to talk about that?

Yeah, but that was the playoffs..... I like my disappointment in January - Not October.

 

[kramer1]

Yeah, but that was the playoffs..... I like my disappointment in January - Not October.

I'd rather we go 0-16. Especially with the draft slotting money now.

 

[DanBengalfan]

eh, other than obvious picks like Andrew Luck, the draft is a lottery.

we passed on Kapernick to get Dalton, Wilson was a late round pick, he should be better than those 2 QBs at least

 

[flamingrey]

Yeah, but that was the playoffs..... I like my disappointment in January - Not October.

Houston 2011: The Bengals had 3 interceptions including a pick 6 to end the first half. Before then, the game was tied 10-10 heading into the half. The Bengals defense gave up a total of 17 points that weren't the result of turnovers.

Houston 2012: Houston scored all of 19 points the entire game. And Leon Hall tacked on 6 for the offense with a pick 6. The offense should be expected to put up at least 12 points in a game.

San Diego 2013: 10-7 game at the half. The defense had only given up 7 points by halftime and another 7 on their first possession in the 2nd half. The offense then proceeded to cough up the ball on the next 3 possessions. Nonetheless, the defense still got the offense the ball back TWICE with a 20-10 score. The last of 2 possession coming with 4:22 left in the game.

I have a hard time saying the defense came up short in any of our playoff games.

 

[alf8478]

How come no one missed Zimmer when we played Baltimore, Atlanta and Tennessee?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Growing pains for a new DC.

Bound to happen.

Let's see if PG can now re-adjust that offenses haver started to figure out his schemes a bit more.

 

[cincygrad]

How come no one missed Zimmer when we played Baltimore, Atlanta and Tennessee?

Flacco was sleeping the entire first half of that football game. When he woke up in the 2nd half he started hurting us.

Atlanta and Tennessee stink.

 

[flamingrey]

How come no one missed Zimmer when we played Baltimore, Atlanta and Tennessee?

Even the worst defenses in the league have good days.

That's not to say the Bengals have a bad defense or that PG is a bad DC, but it's a flawed argument.

3 games is not evidence that PG is even as good as Zimmer, let alone better, given that Zimmer has consistently coached a great defense for many years. However, 2 of the 5 games having been poor defensive showings is certainly evidence that we may not get the same defensive production, at least not consistently.

There is definitely a cause for concern.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Flacco was sleeping the entire first half of that football game. When he woke up in the 2nd half he started hurting us.

Atlanta and Tennessee stink.

The first 28 minutes of the game in Baltimore, the Ravens had like ~80 yards while Burfict was in the game, the second he left with a concussion (the last 32), they racked up over ~350 yards.

While I do not think if Burfict had stayed healthy that the Ravens would have put up less than 100 more yards, I do believe him going down did change the confidence of the Baltimore offense and certainly gave the Bengals defense an added weakness.

The defense has not looked good, they need to fix those issues. However, I am impressed with the offense and with Dalton in general so far this season.

 

[cincygrad]

The first 28 minutes of the game in Baltimore, the Ravens had like ~80 yards while Burfict was in the game, the second he left with a concussion (the last 32), they racked up over ~350 yards.

While I do not think if Burfict had stayed healthy that the Ravens would have put up less than 100 more yards, I do believe him going down did change the confidence of the Baltimore offense and certainly gave the Bengals defense an added weakness.

The defense has not looked good, they need to fix those issues. However, I am impressed with the offense and with Dalton in general so far this season.

I agree with this. I was a little concerned that Hue would try to change the offense into something that didn't fit Dalton that well..... But across the board our offense is much better than last year. Dalton isn't the most athletic guy, but he is pretty smart. It seems like Hue puts him in good situations by keeping the defense guessing - Lots of plays, shifts, motions, gadget stuff, etc. We haven't had a lot of lulls like we did in the past.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I agree with this. I was a little concerned that Hue would try to change the offense into something that didn't fit Dalton that well..... But across the board our offense is much better than last year. Dalton isn't the most athletic guy, but he is pretty smart. It seems like Hue puts him in good situations by keeping the defense guessing - Lots of plays, shifts, motions, gadget stuff, etc. We haven't had a lot of lulls like we did in the past.

Agreed. Especially when you consider Dalton's been without AJ several games, Jones all season, and only had Eiffert for 1-half of a game. Those are the 3 top receiving threats that I'm willing to bet Jackson schemed around all off-season long.

I think with the defense there's some slip regarding overall play. I think a bigger factor may be with 3-4 games out there, teams are seeing what PG likes to call in situations and are adjusting to his calls. Now it's going to be on PG to adjust again. A great example is that early on the double A-gap blitz was great in causing pressure. The past 2 games, both NE and CAR have audibled when they've seen this, picked up the blitz, and each time threw a WR screen knowing there would be no LB on that side to chase down the screen.

 

[cincygrad]

Meanwhile, in Washington:

Jay Gruden: I don?t know why Kirk Cousins throws so many picks | ProFootballTalk

I really liked having Jay here. I thought he did an amazing job in an extremely unfortunate circumstance in 2011. But seeing Kirk Cousins throw the ball all around the yard, and it landing in the hands of the other team, reek of Jay's insistence on plays that won't work for his QB.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Meanwhile, in Washington:

Jay Gruden: I don?t know why Kirk Cousins throws so many picks | ProFootballTalk

I really liked having Jay here. I thought he did an amazing job in an extremely unfortunate circumstance in 2011. But seeing Kirk Cousins throw the ball all around the yard, and it landing in the hands of the other team, reek of Jay's insistence on plays that won't work for his QB.

He, like his brother, is in love with the QB throwing the ball all over the yard no matter who the QB is. The fact is, both Andy and Kirk would have benefited hugely from leaning on the running game and supplement it with the passing. Not the other way around.

 

[alf8478]

Even the worst defenses in the league have good days.

That's not to say the Bengals have a bad defense or that PG is a bad DC, but it's a flawed argument.

3 games is not evidence that PG is even as good as Zimmer, let alone better, given that Zimmer has consistently coached a great defense for many years. However, 2 of the 5 games having been poor defensive showings is certainly evidence that we may not get the same defensive production, at least not consistently.

There is definitely a cause for concern.

How can 3 (good) games not be used as evidence, but 2 (bad) games can be?

I get it. You hate Dalton and have unconditional love for Zimmer, and nothing or no one will change your mind.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

How can 3 (good) games not be used as evidence, but 2 (bad) games can be?

I get it. You hate Dalton and have unconditional love for Zimmer, and nothing or no one will change your mind.

Now you're learning! Good for you. HAHA

You summed up Flaming in a nutshell. But another thing that should not be overlooked is his homerism love for Palmer and his new found love for the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I agree with this. I was a little concerned that Hue would try to change the offense into something that didn't fit Dalton that well..... But across the board our offense is much better than last year. Dalton isn't the most athletic guy, but he is pretty smart. It seems like Hue puts him in good situations by keeping the defense guessing - Lots of plays, shifts, motions, gadget stuff, etc. We haven't had a lot of lulls like we did in the past.

You see that stat on Sunday regarding Dalton? He is snapping the ball and releasing it at an average of 2.17 seconds, best in the NFL. Now I think most of this has to do with the quick WR, TE and RB screens, but in general, I think the offense is unpredictable enough and puts Dalton in position to succeed more often than not.

I think Gruden actually helped Dalton, because Dalton can make those deeper throws now and those more clutch throws like to Wright in OT, because Gruden kept forcing him to throw down the field so often. So while Andy has his limitations regarding the down field passing, I think this offense benefits him more now because he is not so leaned on, but if we have to, Gruden gave him the tools to do it.

Anyways, I am concerned about the defense mostly with the aspect of our lack of pressure and stopping the run, but if Paul can concentrate on that, and not worry about the back end so much with our 6 1st round picks in the secondary, then this defense will get much better.

He needs to design a wide variety of blitzes and conceal them more with who is coming on any given blitz. In the meantime, work on anchoring down that defense to stop the run.

That game against NE was just ugly as hell. Carolina didn't do much successful running outside Cam, and that dude is huge, breaks tackles, can outrun DL and most LB's. When you are forced to be great at covering two aspects of a QB's ability, it will be hard. I hated seeing us get blasted by Cam, but I will give the defense a minor pass on him due to his skillset.

The NE game, that was just pathetic. So as of right now, I need to see improvement. Problem is, Andrew Luck is the same as Newton, just a much better QB. Luck will be hard as hell to contain. I am thinking right now, with no AJ, or offensive help, the defense losing more and more guys (Lamur and Maualuga) probably be replaced with Mays for Lamur and Rey for Maualuga, we shouldn't be too much worse there, but the depth is lacking.

Colts may win this one 41 to 27 is my guess in the dome.