BP likely for Panda soon; setback for Sanchez

[gp956]

I don't get the humor in this. Is it just a riff on "It's Whiteside's fault" ?

Well, if Wellemeyer had not hurt himself, Lincecum would have stayed in AAA a few more weeks - perhaps only to see if he could improve upon his 0.29 ERA.

 

[tzill]

I would be fine with a reasoned explanation, but over half of that ticket buying public would have seen the Phillies get Pence, the Braves get Bourn, some other team get CarBel, and flipped their shit. I don't agree with the argument, but the PCD (pitchfork carrying dullards) would have whined about the offense being barely average before Posey's injury, so improvements would need to be made, anyway. That is the perfect straw man, and assumes that they wouldn't be looking for an offensive boost in the off-season, when they have a better idea of necessary finances.

Some very important (yet seemingly inconsequential), completely out of the hands of management, things happened after the trade that will change the perception of it forever. Like I have said above, I wanted to keep Wheeler on July 25th, but I understand the reasoning for why he wasn't on the team on August 1st. First, CarBel got hurt. Not a huge deal because he came back in time to make a difference, then took time off when the Giants were out of it. Then, RoRo and Teh Nada decided to behave like small children. Not a huge deal because they suck. However, both of these small things led to rifts in the clubhouse that none of us could begin to understand or foresee (maybe a little with E-6, but come on, RoRo, take your $12 mil and shut up). Also, that dead money immediately leads to a PCD perception that there was money to invest in the club at the deadline, which they did, by the way, but with the lunatic fringe there is always more!

Trading B and C prospects for players of Kep's level coupled with a reasoned response as to why the front office didn't want to make a big splash would have been fine for fans like you and I, but the majority of fans would have been up in arms about World Series winnings, merchandising and licensing agreements, which most fans could never truly understand. From a business standpoint, the CarBel trade was really the only option. Would I rather the Giants have Pence? Sure. Did the Giants have the prospects to make that happen and maintain a little organizational depth? Probably not.

This.

So much awesome; so little ability to rep it.

 

[dredinis21]

I would be fine with a reasoned explanation, but over half of that ticket buying public would have seen the Phillies get Pence, the Braves get Bourn, some other team get CarBel, and flipped their shit. I don't agree with the argument, but the PCD (pitchfork carrying dullards) would have whined about the offense being barely average before Posey's injury, so improvements would need to be made, anyway. That is the perfect straw man, and assumes that they wouldn't be looking for an offensive boost in the off-season, when they have a better idea of necessary finances.

Some very important (yet seemingly inconsequential), completely out of the hands of management, things happened after the trade that will change the perception of it forever. Like I have said above, I wanted to keep Wheeler on July 25th, but I understand the reasoning for why he wasn't on the team on August 1st. First, CarBel got hurt. Not a huge deal because he came back in time to make a difference, then took time off when the Giants were out of it. Then, RoRo and Teh Nada decided to behave like small children. Not a huge deal because they suck. However, both of these small things led to rifts in the clubhouse that none of us could begin to understand or foresee (maybe a little with E-6, but come on, RoRo, take your $12 mil and shut up). Also, that dead money immediately leads to a PCD perception that there was money to invest in the club at the deadline, which they did, by the way, but with the lunatic fringe there is always more!

Trading B and C prospects for players of Kep's level coupled with a reasoned response as to why the front office didn't want to make a big splash would have been fine for fans like you and I, but the majority of fans would have been up in arms about World Series winnings, merchandising and licensing agreements, which most fans could never truly understand. From a business standpoint, the CarBel trade was really the only option. Would I rather the Giants have Pence? Sure. Did the Giants have the prospects to make that happen and maintain a little organizational depth? Probably not.

Great fucking post. Repped already. I repped it halfway through reading it.

 

[dredinis21]

I would have absolutely stood pat, allow the starting pitching to continue to dominate while allowing guys like Belt to get steady ABs. Cut Whiteside and have moved Sanchez up the depth charts a bit so he could get a few starts and at bats in, traded for Kep to fill the glaring hole at 2b. Explain to the public that we are going to be upgrading multiple positions and that with the re-emergence of Panda, with a healthy Sanchez, with a healthy Posey, with a more seasoned Belt, as well as with the continued develop of our pitching staff, this team would be significantly better equipped for long term success. The Melky and Pagan trades are both trades that I thought we gained from. Melky, I thought, was a GOOD grab for Sanchez, who was such a mental midget. And we have an entire season before we decide we want to re-up him, trade him at the deadline if he is lighting shit up and if we are out of it, or simply let him walk. I thought the Pagan for Torres and Ramirez may have been a bit heavy sided to get Pagan, but so far it seems like a good trade for us.

All in all, I would have loved for them to stand pat.

CF Pagan
2b Sanchez
3B Sandoval
C Posey
LF Melky
1B Belt
RF Schierholz
SS Arias/Crawford

Like I said in my original post, I totally understand WHY the trade was made. I totally get why Wheeler got shipped to NY and why we got Beltran and how much of a reasonable calculated risk trading our top prospect for him was at the time. I understand that. I just didn't agree with the decision.

 

[tzill]

I would have absolutely stood pat, allow the starting pitching to continue to dominate while allowing guys like Belt to get steady ABs. Cut Whiteside and have moved Sanchez up the depth charts a bit so he could get a few starts and at bats in, traded for Kep to fill the glaring hole at 2b. Explain to the public that we are going to be upgrading multiple positions and that with the re-emergence of Panda, with a healthy Sanchez, with a healthy Posey, with a more seasoned Belt, as well as with the continued develop of our pitching staff, this team would be significantly better equipped for long term success. The Melky and Pagan trades are both trades that I thought we gained from. Melky, I thought, was a GOOD grab for Sanchez, who was such a mental midget. And we have an entire season before we decide we want to re-up him, trade him at the deadline if he is lighting shit up and if we are out of it, or simply let him walk. I thought the Pagan for Torres and Ramirez may have been a bit heavy sided to get Pagan, but so far it seems like a good trade for us.

All in all, I would have loved for them to stand pat.

CF Pagan
2b Sanchez
3B Sandoval
C Posey
LF Melky
1B Belt
RF Schierholz
SS Arias/Crawford

Like I said in my original post, I totally understand WHY the trade was made. I totally get why Wheeler got shipped to NY and why we got Beltran and how much of a reasonable calculated risk trading our top prospect for him was at the time. I understand that. I just didn't agree with the decision.

That would have been heard as "we're giving up on 2011." Not an option in this park, with this fanbase.

I understand your reasoning, but you're completely ignoring a horrific fan reaction to that position. Untenable.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would have absolutely stood pat, allow the starting pitching to continue to dominate while allowing guys like Belt to get steady ABs. Cut Whiteside and have moved Sanchez up the depth charts a bit so he could get a few starts and at bats in, traded for Kep to fill the glaring hole at 2b. Explain to the public that we are going to be upgrading multiple positions and that with the re-emergence of Panda, with a healthy Sanchez, with a healthy Posey, with a more seasoned Belt, as well as with the continued develop of our pitching staff, this team would be significantly better equipped for long term success. The Melky and Pagan trades are both trades that I thought we gained from. Melky, I thought, was a GOOD grab for Sanchez, who was such a mental midget. And we have an entire season before we decide we want to re-up him, trade him at the deadline if he is lighting shit up and if we are out of it, or simply let him walk. I thought the Pagan for Torres and Ramirez may have been a bit heavy sided to get Pagan, but so far it seems like a good trade for us.

All in all, I would have loved for them to stand pat.

CF Pagan
2b Sanchez
3B Sandoval
C Posey
LF Melky
1B Belt
RF Schierholz
SS Arias/Crawford

Like I said in my original post, I totally understand WHY the trade was made. I totally get why Wheeler got shipped to NY and why we got Beltran and how much of a reasonable calculated risk trading our top prospect for him was at the time. I understand that. I just didn't agree with the decision.

I have a sense that most of us here are in this EXACT boat. We (read, I) did not like the trade, but were (was) OK with it given existing conditions and realities.

 

[SFGRTB]

Well, if Wellemeyer had not hurt himself, Lincecum would have stayed in AAA a few more weeks - perhaps only to see if he could improve upon his 0.29 ERA.

Ahhem, Russ Ortiz:

Notes: Lincecum ready for debut | SFGiants.com: News

 

[gp956]

Ahhem, Russ Ortiz:

Notes: Lincecum ready for debut | SFGiants.com: News

oy.....close enough. Who was brought up a little early after Wellemeyer got hurt? Was it Bumgarner?

 

[mistgl]

I have a sense that most of us here are in this EXACT boat. We (read, I) did not like the trade, but were (was) OK with it given existing conditions and realities.

Agreed, but I think there's one thing we're all forgetting.... prospects are EXTREMELY overrated by fans. We love them, fantasize about them, and want even more of them!!! But, at the end of the day, rarely, if ever do they actually pan out the way we want them to.

Perfect example, look at all the guys available with our first pick this year. People are jizzing over all the college bats and prep arms we could snag with it. Look at drafts of the years past and how many of those exact same players flamed out. And I guarantee you that scouts LOVED everyone of them just as much as the crop available this year.

 

[calsnowskier]

Agreed, but I think there's one thing we're all forgetting.... prospects are EXTREMELY overrated by fans. We love them, fantasize about them, and want even more of them!!! But, at the end of the day, rarely, if ever do they actually pan out the way we want them to.

Perfect example, look at all the guys available with our first pick this year. People are jizzing over all the college bats and prep arms we could snag with it. Look at drafts of the years past and how many of those exact same players flamed out. And I guarantee you that scouts LOVED everyone of them just as much as the crop available this year.

What prospects have the Giants traded in the last 30-ish years that have turned out to be anything?

Nathan? He wasn't a prospect. He had already been up a couple years and no one really saw him as more than just a good reliever. Fluke, IMHO.

Alderson?

Liriano? 1 good year, and lots of flashes broken up by major injury issues.

Nokes?

Rios?

Sasser?

Williams? Aardsma? Sosa? Deer? Barnes? Crawford?

Wheeler looks to be the outlier, and he still has not arrived (remember Williams, Vogelsong, Aardsma, etc)

 

[SFGRTB]

oy.....close enough. Who was brought up a little early after Wellemeyer got hurt? Was it Bumgarner?

Well technically it was Martinez (Martinez likely to start Tuesday's game | SFGiants.com: News) who they recalled, but only because of this. Bum was called up soon after for good Bochy plans on keeping Bumgarner around | SFGiants.com: News

BTW I stumbled upon this (from 2010). Funny seeing this article pre-WS.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed, but I think there's one thing we're all forgetting.... prospects are EXTREMELY overrated by fans. We love them, fantasize about them, and want even more of them!!! But, at the end of the day, rarely, if ever do they actually pan out the way we want them to.

Perfect example, look at all the guys available with our first pick this year. People are jizzing over all the college bats and prep arms we could snag with it. Look at drafts of the years past and how many of those exact same players flamed out. And I guarantee you that scouts LOVED everyone of them just as much as the crop available this year.

THIS!

Is Wheeler even a lock to be a decent MLB pitcher? I'd say no, not a lock. The dude's not Strasburg

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed, but I think there's one thing we're all forgetting.... prospects are EXTREMELY overrated by fans. We love them, fantasize about them, and want even more of them!!! But, at the end of the day, rarely, if ever do they actually pan out the way we want them to.

Perfect example, look at all the guys available with our first pick this year. People are jizzing over all the college bats and prep arms we could snag with it. Look at drafts of the years past and how many of those exact same players flamed out. And I guarantee you that scouts LOVED everyone of them just as much as the crop available this year.

This is also why I'm open to dealing Hembree and Brown to get an established MLB player at a need position like 2B. Although as others have noted, not many out there we could realistically get. The obvious can't miss prospects like Posey or Harper or Strasburg are really rare and no one we have now in our system qualifies.

 

[tzill]

Agreed, but I think there's one thing we're all forgetting.... prospects are EXTREMELY overrated by fans. We love them, fantasize about them, and want even more of them!!! But, at the end of the day, rarely, if ever do they actually pan out the way we want them to.

Perfect example, look at all the guys available with our first pick this year. People are jizzing over all the college bats and prep arms we could snag with it. Look at drafts of the years past and how many of those exact same players flamed out. And I guarantee you that scouts LOVED everyone of them just as much as the crop available this year.

If by "them" you mean "Andrew Susac," then....yeah.

 

[calsnowskier]

THIS!

Is Wheeler even a lock to be a decent MLB pitcher? I'd say no, not a lock. The dude's not Strasburg

Alderson, Williams, Aardsma, Van Popple, Ainsworth, Foppart, Vogelsong...

 

[tzill]

This is also why I'm open to dealing Hembree and Brown to get an established MLB player at a need position like 2B. Although as others have noted, not many out there we could realistically get. The obvious can't miss prospects like Posey or Harper or Strasburg are really rare and no one we have now in our system qualifies.

Except for, of course, Susac.

Ya bastard.

 

[msgkings322]

Alderson, Williams, Aardsma, Van Popple, Ainsworth, Foppart, Vogelsong...

One of these things is not like the others?

 

[msgkings322]

Except for, of course, Susac.

Ya bastard.

There's no doubt Susac can't miss your heart with his love arrow.

 

[calsnowskier]

One of these things is not like the others?

Only after 5 years OUT OF THE LEAGUE.

He is a comeback story, sure.

But he was still a bust, as well.

 

[msgkings322]

Only after 5 years OUT OF THE LEAGUE.

He is a comeback story, sure.

But he was still a bust, as well.

Got it.

Yes indeed, Wheeler could very well be like one of those guys. In fact odds are he will be, and not another Bum, Cain, or Timmy.