BP likely for Panda soon; setback for Sanchez

[Mays-Fan]

MIAMI -- Switch-hitter Pablo Sandoval is expected to be ready to rejoin the Giants in two weeks, and he could begin taking batting practice even sooner than that.

Manager Bruce Bochy said Sunday that he's "pretty sure" Sandoval will start taking batting practice again early next week. Sandoval was placed on the 15-day disabled list on May 3, one day after he fractured the hamate bone in his left wrist.

"He's real close," Bochy said. "I don't have a date, but he's doing quite well."

********************************

The news wasn't as encouraging regarding Freddy Sanchez, who is now battling a sore lower back along with trying to complete his recovery from a dislocated right shoulder that required surgery last August.

Bochy revealed Sunday that Sanchez received another epidural injection in his back recently. Still, the Giants are hoping the second baseman can overcome the injuries.

"We're not giving up on him," Bochy said. "But it's an obvious setback."

BP likely for Panda soon; setback for Sanchez | SFGiants.com: News

 

[tzill]

We have to assume that Freddy's done at this point, yes? The question will be: can Arias produce playing 2B most of the time?

 

[msgkings322]

We have to assume that Freddy's done at this point, yes? The question will be: can Arias produce playing 2B most of the time?

Or is there a better 2B out there that we can get for Hembree + Brown?

 

[tzill]

Or is there a better 2B out there that we can get for Hembree + Brown?

Here are the current 2b that are playing better than Arias 263/308/368

Infante, MIA -- untouchable
Cano, NYY -- untouchable
Kinsler, TX -- untouchable
Altuve, HOU -- Brown and Hembree won't do it
Uggla, ATL -- untouchable
Pedroia, BOS -- see Altuve
Kipnis, CLE -- see Altuve
Hill, AZ -- snakes not likely to trade w/in division
Phillips, CIN -- untouchable
Johnson, TOR -- possibility as he's a FA at the end of the year
Ellis, LAD -- see Hill
Murphy, NYM -- unlikely, as he's cost controlled for many years

....and that's kind of it, as no one else is a clear upgrade over Arias. Toronto is playing .500 ball, and with two wild cards I don't think you're going to get them to deal at all this year.

In short, root for Arias and/or a Blue Jay collapse.

 

[msgkings322]

Here are the current 2b that are playing better than Arias 263/308/368

Infante, MIA -- untouchable
Cano, NYY -- untouchable
Kinsler, TX -- untouchable
Altuve, HOU -- Brown and Hembree won't do it
Uggla, ATL -- untouchable
Pedroia, BOS -- see Altuve
Kipnis, CLE -- see Altuve
Hill, AZ -- snakes not likely to trade w/in division
Phillips, CIN -- untouchable
Johnson, TOR -- possibility as he's a FA at the end of the year
Ellis, LAD -- see Hill
Murphy, NYM -- unlikely, as he's cost controlled for many years

....and that's kind of it, as no one else is a clear upgrade over Arias. Toronto is playing .500 ball, and with two wild cards I don't think you're going to get them to deal at all this year.

In short, root for Arias and/or a Blue Jay collapse.

Could Brown + Hembree + Belt + Arias get us Altuve? Probably still no but it's a bigger offer.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Or is there a better 2B out there that we can get for Hembree + Brown?

I hate trades like this. Give up (possibly) the future for a 3-4 months of rental.

 

[MarcoPolo]

We have to assume that Freddy's done at this point, yes? The question will be: can Arias produce playing 2B most of the time?

To insert a bit of (sad) levity, some of you old farts might remember Curtis Mayfield :

 

[the_broom]

I hate trades like this. Give up (possibly) the future for a 3-4 months of rental.

True...repped...

 

[dredinis21]

True...repped...

I was completely against last year's trade for Beltran, knowing he was a FA that was chasing the dollar, for our #1 pitching prospect Zach Wheeler. I understood the thinking from a baseball perspective, as our offense was terrible and Beltran was the best bat on the market that had the least amount of tether ability from a contract standpoint. But I still KNEW in my heart that we wouldn't re-sign Beltran, so it made no sense to me to mortgage our one draft/develop strength, our pitching, for a damn sure 3 month rental.

The reason why this trade sucked out loud to me was that it was the first time in AWHILE that we have traded "genuine" top prospects that showed true promise for anyone, let alone a 3 month rental. So with the uncertainty we had on our rotation with Cain, Lincecum, and MadBum still not locked up long term and Vogelsong who, although loyal, was coming off an All-Star year and probably could have cashed that in for a much bigger contract, the thought that we would trade away our ONLY real insurance policy should something go wrong for a rental made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

I don't want 3-4 month rentals, I want guys that we can build an offense around for more then a summer. If we ARE trading our value pieces, we need to be DAMN sure we are getting a significant upgrade and lynchpin piece to our offensive production. Just my $.02

 

[tzill]

I was completely against last year's trade for Beltran, knowing he was a FA that was chasing the dollar, for our #1 pitching prospect Zach Wheeler. I understood the thinking from a baseball perspective, as our offense was terrible and Beltran was the best bat on the market that had the least amount of tether ability from a contract standpoint. But I still KNEW in my heart that we wouldn't re-sign Beltran, so it made no sense to me to mortgage our one draft/develop strength, our pitching, for a damn sure 3 month rental.

The reason why this trade sucked out loud to me was that it was the first time in AWHILE that we have traded "genuine" top prospects that showed true promise for anyone, let alone a 3 month rental. So with the uncertainty we had on our rotation with Cain, Lincecum, and MadBum still not locked up long term and Vogelsong who, although loyal, was coming off an All-Star year and probably could have cashed that in for a much bigger contract, the thought that we would trade away our ONLY real insurance policy should something go wrong for a rental made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

I don't want 3-4 month rentals, I want guys that we can build an offense around for more then a summer. If we ARE trading our value pieces, we need to be DAMN sure we are getting a significant upgrade and lynchpin piece to our offensive production. Just my $.02

I don't think, theoretically, anyone would disagree with you. However, I challenge you to name a bat that we could have gotten at the deadline last year that fits your description and then tell me what you think it would've taken to get him.

It's all well and good to throw stones at SabeySabes in a vaccuum, but offer an alternative solution.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think, theoretically, anyone would disagree with you. However, I challenge you to name a bat that we could have gotten at the deadline last year that fits your description and then tell me what you think it would've taken to get him.

It's all well and good to throw stones at SabeySabes in a vaccuum, but offer an alternative solution.

While I also agree with Dre's coments, they are made after-the-fact.

At the time the trade was made...

1) We were in the hunt for the division, not just the WC.
2) There were really only 3 bats on the market... Beltran, Bourne, Pence. ALL three were traded for LARGE packages/players
3) Wheeler was 3 years away and ANYTHING could happen in 3 years

Now let's look at the trade in a DIFFERENT after-the-fact world...

1) Beltran does not get hurt
2) The rest of the team does not IMMEDIATELY go into the stink
3) The G's win the west

Is it still a bad trade in that world?

 

[Heathbar012]

I was completely against last year's trade for Beltran, knowing he was a FA that was chasing the dollar, for our #1 pitching prospect Zach Wheeler. I understood the thinking from a baseball perspective, as our offense was terrible and Beltran was the best bat on the market that had the least amount of tether ability from a contract standpoint. But I still KNEW in my heart that we wouldn't re-sign Beltran, so it made no sense to me to mortgage our one draft/develop strength, our pitching, for a damn sure 3 month rental.

The reason why this trade sucked out loud to me was that it was the first time in AWHILE that we have traded "genuine" top prospects that showed true promise for anyone, let alone a 3 month rental. So with the uncertainty we had on our rotation with Cain, Lincecum, and MadBum still not locked up long term and Vogelsong who, although loyal, was coming off an All-Star year and probably could have cashed that in for a much bigger contract, the thought that we would trade away our ONLY real insurance policy should something go wrong for a rental made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

I don't want 3-4 month rentals, I want guys that we can build an offense around for more then a summer. If we ARE trading our value pieces, we need to be DAMN sure we are getting a significant upgrade and lynchpin piece to our offensive production. Just my $.02

When talks started, I was in the "Anyone but Wheeler" camp because, like you, I really liked the idea of having insurance for when all of the great, young Giants' pitchers want big paydays (closing in on past tense with those). I thought the Giants didn't have a legit enough shot at a repeat to warrant giving up the number one prospect, at the time. When the trade was made, it could be justified by trying to capitalize on a small window of really good, relatively affordable pitching and the fact that number one prospects become nothing all the time. Granted, Wheeler seemed like more of a sure thing... but so does Crick... and hopefully, Big Ty.

I disagree that when the trade was made, there was no way management planned on re-signing Beltran. I agree that it seemed less likely considering the amount of money locked up with other players, but given what CarBel eventually got, I think it's safe to assume that the market is fairly different than we expect most times.

Certainly, it would be better to have Wheeler now than nothing (plus, I think his floor is a solid #3), and your opinion is even more valid with me because I had similar feelings, but if CarBel didn't get hurt and a couple of other guys stepped up (like Furcal, Berkman and Theriot for the Cards or Renteria and Ross for the 2010 Giants), we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Also, trading Wheeler didn't change the big clubs' agenda, or moves, at all. It just dictates the draft strategy this year. A prospect like Wheeler is far easier to replace than a major-leaguer like CarBel (though, it looks like trading Durrty might have taken care of that). After last year's deadline past, I ended up liking the trade because the front office took a calculated risk to improve the team, hopefully, enough to win another ring. I'm glad they aren't sitting back, trying to collect prospects and letting Cainer's (among others) career go to waste.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I was against the trade because we didn't need ONE bat - we needed several. (And trading for Orlando Cabrera and Jeff Keppinger doesn't count as "acquiring bats".)

So why trade away THE top prospect? I was also pissed in 2007 when they didn't send Timmy back to the minors for 15 days or so - I was sure it was going to cost them an extra arb year (at least $10M) and that too was a pretty obvious crap year by mid-late July. It turned out to cost them (at least) $22M extra.

 

[calsnowskier]

I was against the trade because we didn't need ONE bat - we needed several. (And trading for Orlando Cabrera and Jeff Keppinger doesn't count as "acquiring bats".)

So why trade away THE top prospect? I was also pissed in 2007 when they didn't send Timmy back to the minors for 15 days or so - I was sure it was going to cost them an extra arb year (at least $10M) and that too was a pretty obvious crap year by mid-late July. It turned out to cost them (at least) $22M extra.

In a video game world, that would have been a GREAT idea...

But the fact is that they are deal with real people and the union. If the Gs did something like that, they would have been shot on by the union and RUINED any relationship they have with Timmeh (as well as get a rep around the league as a HORRID place to play)

 

[SFGRTB]

I'd honestly say the most realistic option out there would be Kelly Johnson, Rickie Weeks, Chone Figgens, Robert Andino, Gordon Beckham or Freddy Sanchez.

Even so, Johnson could be in the Jays long term plans, Figgens has fallen off a cliff, Andino is nothing that Arias can't provide (except maybe a TAD more power), Beckham is young still but straight awful. Weeks is injury-prone and having a very bad year to this point, but has good history and then Freddy is a huge ?

Weeks would be an investment (he has 2 more years of control and a vesting option) and cost the most but brings the best upside and would settle the position for a while. Brewers are taking shots lately and may look to re-tool, could be a match.

 

[gp956]

In a video game world, that would have been a GREAT idea...

But the fact is that they are deal with real people and the union. If the Gs did something like that, they would have been shot on by the union and RUINED any relationship they have with Timmeh (as well as get a rep around the league as a HORRID place to play)

 

[MarcoPolo]

In a video game world, that would have been a GREAT idea...

But the fact is that they are deal with real people and the union. If the Gs did something like that, they would have been shot on by the union and RUINED any relationship they have with Timmeh (as well as get a rep around the league as a HORRID place to play)

Yeah, I can see that. But they just would have had to choose their moment wisely. Like after Timmy gave up 6 ER in 6 IP on Aug 11, followed by 3 ER in 5 IP (89 pitches) on 8/16. Send him to the minors to "work on XXXX in a lower stress environment" and then call him up in Sep.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah, I can see that. But they just would have had to choose their moment wisely. Like after Timmy gave up 6 ER in 6 IP on Aug 11, followed by 3 ER in 5 IP (89 pitches) on 8/16. Send him to the minors to "work on XXXX in a lower stress environment" and then call him up in Sep.

I think that the Giants have an organizational philosophy of treating it's players/alumni well. Sometimes this costs (like with Posey, Bum and Timmeh). Sometimes it pays (like with Mays, Bonds eventually, Bum and his team-friendly contract).

I think in the long run, I would rather be a fan of a team that treats it's players like human beings than be a fan of the I's.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, I can see that. But they just would have had to choose their moment wisely. Like after Timmy gave up 6 ER in 6 IP on Aug 11, followed by 3 ER in 5 IP (89 pitches) on 8/16. Send him to the minors to "work on XXXX in a lower stress environment" and then call him up in Sep.

But when I suggest doing exactly this, now, with the same player, I get shouted down...

I've actually come around to y'alls thinking on that. He can work it out vs real major leaguers. After all we wouldn't be sure he was truly 'fixed' until he pitched in the majors again so why waste a month vs scrubs and kids?

 

[msgkings322]

I think that the Giants have an organizational philosophy of treating it's players/alumni well. Sometimes this costs (like with Posey, Bum and Timmeh). Sometimes it pays (like with Mays, Bonds eventually, Bum and his team-friendly contract).

I think in the long run, I would rather be a fan of a team that treats it's players like human beings than be a fan of the I's.

This, this, a thousand times this.

Rep.