BP likely for Panda soon; setback for Sanchez

[mistgl]

Could Brown + Hembree + Belt + Arias get us Altuve? Probably still no but it's a bigger offer.

I don't see Houston trading him much the same way that Bean refused to talk about weeks in their fire sale - He's a fan favorite.

That being said, he is the same kind of hacker the Panda is. Except this kid is like 5-5, and that's being generous with a few inches, so his power potential is limited. Simply not worth giving up Brown, Hembree, AND Belt imo.

Arias is the best option there, and he's free...

 

[msgkings322]

I don't see Houston trading him much the same way that Bean refused to talk about weeks in their fire sale - He's a fan favorite.

That being said, he is the same kind of hacker the Panda is. Except this kid is like 5-5, and that's being generous with a few inches, so his power potential is limited. Simply not worth giving up Brown, Hembree, AND Belt imo.

Arias is the best option there, and he's free...

I can dig it. Like I said in other threads, with Panda back and Belt seemingly creeping towards respectability (the OBP is actually solid already) and Arias at 2B that's not a bad lineup. We are already scoring runs WITHOUT Panda.

 

[filosofy29]

But when I suggest doing exactly this, now, with the same player, I get shouted down...

I've actually come around to y'alls thinking on that. He can work it out vs real major leaguers. After all we wouldn't be sure he was truly 'fixed' until he pitched in the majors again so why waste a month vs scrubs and kids?

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison msg. Plus, I don't see many coming to Marco's defense for this idea.

Exactly. All we can do now is hope that Timmy gets his head screwed on right, harness control of his arsenal and learns to trust what he has.....ace like stuff.

 

[mistgl]

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison msg. Plus, I don't see many coming to Marco's defense for this idea.

Exactly. All we can do now is hope that Timmy gets his head screwed on right, harness control of his arsenal and learns to trust what he has.....ace like stuff.

He's slowly making his way back. The velocity has creeped higher than I ever thought it would at 94, and he still is striking out more than a batter per inning. I think once he has that command and control back that it will be lights out.

 

[gp956]

I think that the Giants have an organizational philosophy of treating it's players/alumni well. Sometimes this costs (like with Posey, Bum and Timmeh). Sometimes it pays (like with Mays, Bonds eventually, Bum and his team-friendly contract).

I think in the long run, I would rather be a fan of a team that treats it's players like human beings than be a fan of the I's.

Exactly. Nice post.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I think that the Giants have an organizational philosophy of treating it's players/alumni well. Sometimes this costs (like with Posey, Bum and Timmeh). Sometimes it pays (like with Mays, Bonds eventually, Bum and his team-friendly contract).

I think in the long run, I would rather be a fan of a team that treats it's players like human beings than be a fan of the I's.

But, as I said, they just needed to choose their moment wisely. Make a decent argument for "working out problems" in the minors, and call him back when rosters expanded. Send him down right after 1 bad and one "so-so" performance, give him something specific to work on, blah blah blah. It would have flown, since he had two back-to-back less than optimal performances - as a rookie with less than 4 months experience.

 

[mistgl]

Here are the current 2b that are playing better than Arias 263/308/368

Infante, MIA -- untouchable
Cano, NYY -- untouchable
Kinsler, TX -- untouchable
Altuve, HOU -- Brown and Hembree won't do it
Uggla, ATL -- untouchable
Pedroia, BOS -- see Altuve
Kipnis, CLE -- see Altuve
Hill, AZ -- snakes not likely to trade w/in division
Phillips, CIN -- untouchable
Johnson, TOR -- possibility as he's a FA at the end of the year
Ellis, LAD -- see Hill
Murphy, NYM -- unlikely, as he's cost controlled for many years

....and that's kind of it, as no one else is a clear upgrade over Arias. Toronto is playing .500 ball, and with two wild cards I don't think you're going to get them to deal at all this year.

In short, root for Arias and/or a Blue Jay collapse.

The Mets turn out farmhands that can hit well, and fill holes on their roster like we develop ace arms. Pagan, Murphy, heck! Half their roster is home grown no names who can hit for average and take a walk. Maybe we should trade notes with them....

 

[gp956]

But, as I said, they just needed to choose their moment wisely. Make a decent argument for "working out problems" in the minors, and call him back when rosters expanded. Send him down right after 1 bad and one "so-so" performance, give him something specific to work on, blah blah blah. It would have flown, since he had two back-to-back less than optimal performances - as a rookie with less than 4 months experience.

It was wellemeyer's fault.

 

[calsnowskier]

But, as I said, they just needed to choose their moment wisely. Make a decent argument for "working out problems" in the minors, and call him back when rosters expanded. Send him down right after 1 bad and one "so-so" performance, give him something specific to work on, blah blah blah. It would have flown, since he had two back-to-back less than optimal performances - as a rookie with less than 4 months experience.

Timmeh was a beast. Timmeh was a beast in college. Timmeh was a beast in the minors. Timmeh was beast-ish in SF the second he arrived. Timmeh was an epic beast his first full year in SF.

Just because they may have been able to do it legally, it would have been obvious what they were doing, and EVERY player and agent would file away the fact that they screw their players out of service time, even when they clearly deserve it.

 

[dredinis21]

I don't think, theoretically, anyone would disagree with you. However, I challenge you to name a bat that we could have gotten at the deadline last year that fits your description and then tell me what you think it would've taken to get him.

It's all well and good to throw stones at SabeySabes in a vaccuum, but offer an alternative solution.

Tzill, that's the whole point. I didn't agree with Beltran as the Savior for our offense when we had serious problems reaching the Mendoza line at SS and CF. Christian was starting a bulk of games down the stretch in CF, which isn't exactly good. We had a HUGE hole at C with Posey being gone for the year and 2b was taken on by Kep decently offensively but less then stellar defensively which made him damn near a liability. There was really no reason for us to make that kind of run for a singular prayer when the future of this club with its talented young players is bright, starting with the return of Posey.

I didn't want to make a trade to improve our immediate ball club last year at all unless it was for B/C prospects like the Kep trade.

 

[SFAnthem]

Tzill, that's the whole point. I didn't agree with Beltran as the Savior for our offense when we had serious problems reaching the Mendoza line at SS and CF. Christian was starting a bulk of games down the stretch in CF, which isn't exactly good. We had a HUGE hole at C with Posey being gone for the year and 2b was taken on by Kep decently offensively but less then stellar defensively which made him damn near a liability. There was really no reason for us to make that kind of run for a singular prayer when the future of this club with its talented young players is bright, starting with the return of Posey.

I didn't want to make a trade to improve our immediate ball club last year at all unless it was for B/C prospects like the Kep trade.

It would have been a slap in the face to the pitching staff not to do anything drastic. I didn't want to give up wheeler but I'd rather sit there out of he playoffs knowing that mgmt made a run while the division was close than sell out their players.

AZ played outta their minds-hats off to them but realistically the division was up for grabs with just a decent offense.

It didn't work out but I don't mind having the front office swing n miss once in awhile if they retain winning a priority. Who gave the 2010 offense a chance? No one, until they did it.

 

[Stokes1931]

Tzill, that's the whole point. I didn't agree with Beltran as the Savior for our offense when we had serious problems reaching the Mendoza line at SS and CF. Christian was starting a bulk of games down the stretch in CF, which isn't exactly good. We had a HUGE hole at C with Posey being gone for the year and 2b was taken on by Kep decently offensively but less then stellar defensively which made him damn near a liability. There was really no reason for us to make that kind of run for a singular prayer when the future of this club with its talented young players is bright, starting with the return of Posey.

I didn't want to make a trade to improve our immediate ball club last year at all unless it was for B/C prospects like the Kep trade.

There were other holes, to be sure, but nothing readily available that we were willing to pay for. And the Giants' cupboard of trade-able players that other teams wanted was pretty bare. Wheeler was the one chip we had in the game, and SabeySabes bet that one chip.

It was a calculated gamble. CarBel was the best available hitter out there, with an outstanding track record in hitting for average and power, and had some speed. For a variety of reasons, it did not work out as anticipated. We can quibble over details in hindsight, but really, this was the move SabeySabes had to make. To mix metaphors, he stepped up to the plate, took his hacks, pulled the trigger, and got the deal done. CarBel did not get the job done upon arrival, and then hit too little too late. A risk worth taking. Move on.

 

[tzill]

Tzill, that's the whole point. I didn't agree with Beltran as the Savior for our offense when we had serious problems reaching the Mendoza line at SS and CF. Christian was starting a bulk of games down the stretch in CF, which isn't exactly good. We had a HUGE hole at C with Posey being gone for the year and 2b was taken on by Kep decently offensively but less then stellar defensively which made him damn near a liability. There was really no reason for us to make that kind of run for a singular prayer when the future of this club with its talented young players is bright, starting with the return of Posey.

I didn't want to make a trade to improve our immediate ball club last year at all unless it was for B/C prospects like the Kep trade.

So if I'm following, your solution was "no major moves and throw in the towel on the year?" That's the message you want to send to the ticket buying public?

 

[tzill]

There were other holes, to be sure, but nothing readily available that we were willing to pay for. And the Giants' cupboard of trade-able players that other teams wanted was pretty bare. Wheeler was the one chip we had in the game, and SabeySabes bet that one chip.

It was a calculated gamble. CarBel was the best available hitter out there, with an outstanding track record in hitting for average and power, and had some speed. For a variety of reasons, it did not work out as anticipated. We can quibble over details in hindsight, but really, this was the move SabeySabes had to make. To mix metaphors, he stepped up to the plate, took his hacks, pulled the trigger, and got the deal done. CarBel did not get the job done upon arrival, and then hit too little too late. A risk worth taking. Move on.

Repped. That this is even arguable boggles the mind.

 

[Heathbar012]

There were other holes, to be sure, but nothing readily available that we were willing to pay for. And the Giants' cupboard of trade-able players that other teams wanted was pretty bare. Wheeler was the one chip we had in the game, and SabeySabes bet that one chip.

It was a calculated gamble. CarBel was the best available hitter out there, with an outstanding track record in hitting for average and power, and had some speed. For a variety of reasons, it did not work out as anticipated. We can quibble over details in hindsight, but really, this was the move SabeySabes had to make. To mix metaphors, he stepped up to the plate, took his hacks, pulled the trigger, and got the deal done. CarBel did not get the job done upon arrival, and then hit too little too late. A risk worth taking. Move on.

Great post. Couldn't rep.

 

[tzill]

 

[the_broom]

I don't think, theoretically, anyone would disagree with you. However, I challenge you to name a bat that we could have gotten at the deadline last year that fits your description and then tell me what you think it would've taken to get him.

It's all well and good to throw stones at SabeySabes in a vaccuum, but offer an alternative solution.

My take...I didn't want to lose Wheeler, and regardless of who came over last year I just didn't think that the Giants were going to get it done, postseason wise. I did think we had a shot to resign Beltran, though...

 

[tzill]

My take...I didn't want to lose Wheeler, and regardless of who came over last year I just didn't think that the Giants were going to get it done, postseason wise. I did think we had a shot to resign Beltran, though...

So you would've stood pat?

 

[MarcoPolo]

It was wellemeyer's fault.

I don't get the humor in this. Is it just a riff on "It's Whiteside's fault" ?

 

[Heathbar012]

So if I'm following, your solution was "no major moves and throw in the towel on the year?" That's the message you want to send to the ticket buying public?

I would be fine with a reasoned explanation, but over half of that ticket buying public would have seen the Phillies get Pence, the Braves get Bourn, some other team get CarBel, and flipped their shit. I don't agree with the argument, but the PCD (pitchfork carrying dullards) would have whined about the offense being barely average before Posey's injury, so improvements would need to be made, anyway. That is the perfect straw man, and assumes that they wouldn't be looking for an offensive boost in the off-season, when they have a better idea of necessary finances.

Some very important (yet seemingly inconsequential), completely out of the hands of management, things happened after the trade that will change the perception of it forever. Like I have said above, I wanted to keep Wheeler on July 25th, but I understand the reasoning for why he wasn't on the team on August 1st. First, CarBel got hurt. Not a huge deal because he came back in time to make a difference, then took time off when the Giants were out of it. Then, RoRo and Teh Nada decided to behave like small children. Not a huge deal because they suck. However, both of these small things led to rifts in the clubhouse that none of us could begin to understand or foresee (maybe a little with E-6, but come on, RoRo, take your $12 mil and shut up). Also, that dead money immediately leads to a PCD perception that there was money to invest in the club at the deadline, which they did, by the way, but with the lunatic fringe there is always more!

Trading B and C prospects for players of Kep's level coupled with a reasoned response as to why the front office didn't want to make a big splash would have been fine for fans like you and I, but the majority of fans would have been up in arms about World Series winnings, merchandising and licensing agreements, which most fans could never truly understand. From a business standpoint, the CarBel trade was really the only option. Would I rather the Giants have Pence? Sure. Did the Giants have the prospects to make that happen and maintain a little organizational depth? Probably not.