BINGO! Percy Harvin on the trade black

[tomikcon1971]

Local sports radio in MPLS is spending a lot of time talking about Percy and his likely departure. Early in the season he was touted in some circles as a possible MVP candidate. When he's on the field he's impressive. In the pistol he could be lethal in my humble opinion. He seemed to idolize Moss during his brief return to MN for whatever that's worth. However, attitude, migraines, and injuries are red flags. We don't need a pariah.

 

[NinerSickness]

If he's as good a WR as you'll find in FA, then don't look for a #1 WR in FA.

Don't you think Wallace is a better WR than Crabtree? I think he'd be the best WR the Niners have had since TO. And even getting another WR who was equally as good as Crabby would make this offense a hell of a lot more dangerous IMO; the other WR spot has been like a sink hole the last 2 years.

How many WRs in the league would you take over Mike Wallace if everyone were available for their current contract?

Only about 12 or 13. I like him more than Bowe & Torrey Smith. Kenny Britt can be better, but he's done nothing but act like a numbskull. Hakeem Nicks can be better, but Nicks has never played a full season. Harvin can be better overall, but the Niners don't need his ability to carry the ball.

 

[imac_21]

Don't you think Wallace is a better WR than Crabtree? I think he'd be the best WR the Niners have had since TO. And even getting another WR who was equally as good as Crabby would make this offense a hell of a lot more dangerous IMO; the other WR spot has been like a sink hole the last 2 years.

If the way Crabtree finished the season is indicative of how he will play going forward, than I don't think Wallace is in the same ballpark as Crabtree.

Only about 12 or 13. I like him more than Bowe & Torrey Smith. Kenny Britt can be better, but he's done nothing but act like a numbskull. Hakeem Nicks can be better, but Nicks has never played a full season. Harvin can be better overall, but the Niners don't need his ability to carry the ball.

Then you think much higher of him than I do. Off the top of my head I would take
Calvin Johnson
Andre Johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Roddy White
Crabtree
Harvin
V Jackson
Jennings
Nicks
Cruz
Marshall
Dez
Fitz
Torrey Smith
Bowe
Demarius Thomas
Colston
Steve Smith
Stevie Johnson
Miles Austin
Randall Cobb


Guys I would consider
Decker
Hilton
Britt
Desean Jackson
Antonio Brown (yep, not convinced Wallace is the best WR on his team)
Boldin


So there is no way I'm giving him 8 figures.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Wallace could be better for the Niners than a lot of those guys though. They do have an excellent possession WR in Crabs, and adding Wallace and a good possession TE could make it a nice receiving corps overall......if they can't manage to get one of the aforementioned stud WRs.

 

[imac_21]

Wallace could be better for the Niners than a lot of those guys though. They do have an excellent possession WR in Crabs, and adding Wallace and a good possession TE could make it a nice receiving corps overall......if they can't manage to get one of the aforementioned stud WRs.

Mike Wallace = 10M per year. That is not good for this team no matter how you spin it.

Wallace is a complimentary player. I'd be hard pressed to play him over a healthy Manningham.

I also strongly disagree that he would be better for the Niners than the players I listed above regardless of contract situations.

 

[NinerSickness]

Mike Wallace = 10M per year. That is not good for this team no matter how you spin it.

How much money do you expect Mike Wallace to make in FA? And why do you think a team is going to be willing to pay him that much? If it's 10 million, is it because they're stupid?

And if he's barely better than Mario Manningham, why were the Niners looking into dropping a first round pick to get him on the team if he wasn't demanding quite as much money?

 

[imac_21]

How much money do you expect Mike Wallace to make in FA? And why do you think a team is going to be willing to pay him that much? If it's 10 million, is it because they're stupid?

And if he's barely better than Mario Manningham, why were the Niners looking into dropping a first round pick to get him on the team if he wasn't demanding quite as much money?

Teams over pay in FA all the time. I don't think that you can point to the willingness to give a one-dimensional WR 8 figures as evidence that he's worth it.

Was it ever confirmed the Niners were looking into him? I know there was speculation that he would be a good fit, but that's because we were a team that was a healthy WR away from a Super Bowl appearance last year.

He was supposed to come is a deep threat. Instead he didn't come in at all. So you're pointing to the rumours that we may have been interested in him last year if his salary demands were lower, and the possibility that a team may overpay him this year as his being worth it?

As to why some teams will be willing to pay him a lot of money. . .
Partly because some teams will value what he brings to the table more than I do.

Partly because teams notoriously overvalue "name" players from other rosters (Hi Craig Newsome and Gabe Wilkins).

Party because teams do a poor job of evaluating players in systems different than their own.

Personally, I'd rather bring in a big body like Bowe or someone in the draft) who isn't dependent solely on speed to be a deep threat. I don't think it's a coincidence that Wallace has declined statistically in each of the past two years. Guys that are reliant simply on speed tend to be flash in the pan types that are easier to take away with scheme than guys that are just bigger and stronger.

I want a WR that can get open, but can also make plays in traffic. Who is that? Right now I'm not sure (I know we have one on the team right now), but I know it isn't Wallace.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I also strongly disagree that he would be better for the Niners than the players I listed above regardless of contract situations.

I won't profess to be a Mike Wallace expert, maybe you know him better than I do. But when I see a guy averaging 60 catches for 1000 yards and 8 TDs in first four seasons, now turning 27 and presumably hitting his prime, that is a prime player. 17 yards/catch is 4th among active players, and one above is Devery Henderson who hasn't had nearly as much action (others are Vincent and Desean Jackson).

Arguably the best deep threat in football by the stats, and I don't think PIT has been the most explosive offense around since he's been there. We all know the Niners could really use a deep threat. But again, I don't have much first hand info, don't watch the Steelers much.

 

[tomikcon1971]

Percy & Patriots a possible match? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[NinerSickness]

Arguably the best deep threat in football

That, in and of itself, makes him worth signing. If you have a deep threat like Wallace on the edges and a TE whom LBs can't cover over the middle, there's no way you can key on the run most of the time. And when they don't, it's off to the races for Gore, Hunter & James.

The threat of his deep-ball ability is what opens up other things not only for him (other routes), but for the offense in general. The other WRs who are available can't do that (except Harvin, but he has other issues).

 

[NinerSickness]

Percy & Patriots a possible match? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Ok, that's something I do not want to see. He would fit PERFECTLY into that offense.

I may have to jump on the trade-for-Harvin bandwagon just to keep him off the Patriots.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Yeah, sickness that plus replacing Delanie with a Jason Witten-type (not necessarily the talent, but the skill set) would seem to me to be a very nice offensive upgrade.

 

[imac_21]

I won't profess to be a Mike Wallace expert, maybe you know him better than I do. But when I see a guy averaging 60 catches for 1000 yards and 8 TDs in first four seasons, now turning 27 and presumably hitting his prime, that is a prime player. 17 yards/catch is 4th among active players, and one above is Devery Henderson who hasn't had nearly as much action (others are Vincent and Desean Jackson).

Arguably the best deep threat in football by the stats, and I don't think PIT has been the most explosive offense around since he's been there. We all know the Niners could really use a deep threat. But again, I don't have much first hand info, don't watch the Steelers much.

I think this is a very interesting take on it. I look at Wallace as a guy who has declined in each of the last two seasons. His 17 ypc is due largely to the 21 ypc season he had 2 years ago, when he broke out. Since then, since he's been getting attention from the defense, he has taken steps backwards to the point where this year he was at 13.1 ypc.

I also think it's hard to call him "arguably the best deep threat in football" when his team hasn't had an explosive offense.

And again, I don't want to spend 10M on a deep threat.

 

[imac_21]

That, in and of itself, makes him worth signing. If you have a deep threat like Wallace on the edges and a TE whom LBs can't cover over the middle, there's no way you can key on the run most of the time. And when they don't, it's off to the races for Gore, Hunter & James.

The threat of his deep-ball ability is what opens up other things not only for him (other routes), but for the offense in general. The other WRs who are available can't do that (except Harvin, but he has other issues).

He's the best deep threat in football on a team that doesn't have an explosive offense? That doesn't make any sense at all.

And how does being a great deep threat (not convinced he is) automatically make him worth signing? You don't even give a salary for him. You just declare him "worth signing." He brings ONE thing to the team. Nothing more. You would just sign him no matter what (that's what you've implied above)?

 

[NinerSickness]

He's the best deep threat in football on a team that doesn't have an explosive offense? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Did you press "quote" on the wrong post? When did I say anything about the Steelers' explosiveness or lack thereof?

You don't even give a salary for him. You just declare him "worth signing." He brings ONE thing to the team. Nothing more. You would just sign him no matter what (that's what you've implied above)?

5 years, 48 million.

 

[imac_21]

Did you press "quote" on the wrong post? When did I say anything about the Steelers' explosiveness or lack thereof?

Nope, didn't quote the wrong post. I just didn't add the part of the quote that you edited out. You didn't even crop it at a sentence, but instead just a clause. Here's the complete sentence.

Arguably the best deep threat in football by the stats, and I don't think PIT has been the most explosive offense around since he's been there.

5 years, 48 million.

Frankly, that's about 15-20M more than I would give him. He's a deep threat, nothing more. And he isn't Randy Moss circa 2000. He's a deep threat coming off a year where he didn't reach 1000 yards and averaged only 13.1 ypc.

 

[NinerSickness]

Nope, didn't quote the wrong post. I just didn't add the part of the quote that you edited out. You didn't even crop it at a sentence, but instead just a clause. Here's the complete sentence.

Arguably the best deep threat in football by the stats, and I don't think PIT has been the most explosive offense around since he's been there.

I see. Ok how 'bout this: 17.2 yards per catch for his career.

He might not be THE best deep threat in football because of Megatron & Julio Jones, but he's up there.

 

[imac_21]

Nope, didn't quote the wrong post. I just didn't add the part of the quote that you edited out. You didn't even crop it at a sentence, but instead just a clause. Here's the complete sentence.

Arguably the best deep threat in football by the stats, and I don't think PIT has been the most explosive offense around since he's been there.

I see. Ok how 'bout this: 17.2 yards per catch for his career.

He might not be THE best deep threat in football because of Megatron & Julio Jones, but he's up there.

Yep, 17 ypc on his career. Of course, that number has dropped significantly over the last 3 years (21.0 ->16.6 -> 13.1). He's also had a decline in total yards (which makes sense based on the massive drop in ypc). But his targets have gone up.

Fantastic, let's sign a guy who has seen a steady decline in production while his opportunities have increased. And while we're at him, let's give him 9.6M per for 5 years.

But that 48/5 is a BS number. How much would you guarantee? Where would you structure the potential outs? I'd be cool with 48/5 if it was about 18M in the first 3 years and 30M, none of it guaranteed, in the last 2.

But this guy is making money off one year.

BTW, Randy Moss has a career yards per catch of 15.6. Maybe we already have our deep threat?

 

[NinerSickness]

But that 48/5 is a BS number. How much would you guarantee? Where would you structure the potential outs? I'd be cool with 48/5 if it was about 18M in the first 3 years and 30M, none of it guaranteed, in the last 2.

22.6 million guaranteed money. Where do I structure the potential outs? After at least after 2 seasons. They're not gonna part ways with him before that.

But this guy is making money off one year.

No, he's making it off of 3 years. YOU are marginalizing him as a player based on one year, and that's a year in which Roethlisberger was injured, they missed the playoffs and they had all kinds of other injury issues on offense.

BTW, Randy Moss has a career yards per catch of 15.6. Maybe we already have our deep threat?

Come on. You're better than this. You know why this doesn't follow the logic.

 

[imac_21]

22.6 million guaranteed money. Where do I structure the potential outs? After at least after 2 seasons. They're not gonna part ways with him before that.



No, he's making it off of 3 years. YOU are marginalizing him as a player based on one year, and that's a year in which Roethlisberger was injured, they missed the playoffs and they had all kinds of other injury issues on offense.

He's making it off 3 years? He's only had 2 thousand yard seasons. He's been on a steady decline. Is it his rookie year, or this last season that you feel warrants 9.6M per year.

Also, this year Roethlisberger played in 13 games. In 2010 Roethlisberger played in 12 games. In 2011 Roethlisberger played 15 games. Roethliserger has missed at least one game in every season Wallace has played.

The season Roethlisberger missed the most games was Wallace's best season. Maybe having Roethlisberger injured wasn't all that big of a deal for him.