Big Trade

[powerchord86]

Nothing like spicing up opening day with a big time trade right?

I traded Josh Donaldson for Mike Trout. I'm pretty excited and feel good about it as Trout is 5 years younger and always a stud. And it's a keeper league so many more years of service to come!

Thoughts?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Nothing like spicing up opening day with a big time trade right?

I traded Josh Donaldson for Mike Trout. I'm pretty excited and feel good about it as Trout is 5 years younger and always a stud. And it's a keeper league so many more years of service to come!

Thoughts?

gonna say this... But I would have vetoed that trade...

 

[tlance]

gonna say this... But I would have vetoed that trade...

Cmon Milk. You don't even know the format!

If this is a small league where you only start 3 OF, then I take Donaldson all day ahead of Trout for the short term. Sounds crazy, but OF are so easy to find.

Obviously you win the trade in the long run, but this is not a vetoable trade in any respectable league. Two top 5 players are exchanged for each other. Team Trout surely had an excess in the OF and a need at 3rd. Numbers should be very comparable for the next 2-3 years.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Cmon Milk. You don't even know the format!

If this is a small league where you only start 3 OF, then I take Donaldson all day ahead of Trout for the short term. Sounds crazy, but OF are so easy to find.

Obviously you win the trade in the long run, but this is not a vetoable trade in any respectable league. Two top 5 players are exchanged for each other. Team Trout surely had an excess in the OF and a need at 3rd. Numbers should be very comparable for the next 2-3 years.

your right, I don't know the format, nor the specific situations... But don't you hate when teams trade the most "valuable" player in fantasy for a player who is much lower "valued"...

How about Clayton Kershaw for Matt Harvey?? this is the same thing... Clearly the x-trout owner panicked... and he did it without getting Joe panic in return...

 

[tlance]

your right, I don't know the format, nor the specific situations... But don't you hate when teams trade the most "valuable" player in fantasy for a player who is much lower "valued"...

How about Clayton Kershaw for Matt Harvey?? this is the same thing... Clearly the x-trout owner panicked... and he did it without getting Joe panic in return...

Not the same at all! Both are top overall players and the "lesser option" plays the scarce position. FYI, in my latest overall rankings I have Trout 2nd and Donaldson 4th. In your pitcher example, Kershaw again is a consensus top 5 overall pick and Harvey is a 3rd rounder. The value gap there is MUCH greater.

If I had Trout, I would have asked for another piece for sure, but this deal is not outlandish.

 

[powerchord86]

It's a 12 team mixed points league. Each team gets 4 keeper selections prior to draft.

We do have 3 OF spots and I needed a good one. Had to much 3B as I also have Maikel Franco and Matt Duffy.

Donaldson's stock is sky high right now after last season. I think this may have clouded the foresight of my opponent on Trout.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not the same at all! Both are top overall players and the "lesser option" plays the scarce position. FYI, in my latest overall rankings I have Trout 2nd and Donaldson 4th. In your pitcher example, Kershaw again is a consensus top 5 overall pick and Harvey is a 3rd rounder. The value gap there is MUCH greater.

If I had Trout, I would have asked for another piece for sure, but this deal is not outlandish.

fine you caught me exaggerating... it is not the same thing... But I hate when there is a clear winner in a trade, with NO debate...

if you advised the other team, would there be any scenario where you would say trade Trout for Donaldson?? if his OF was good enough to get rid of trout, then he could have just gotten a kyle seager type instead... and then been FINE...

 

[powerchord86]

Funny you say that, because he already has Kyle Seager... lol

Kyle Schwarber, Adam Eaton, Denard Span, Khris Davis and Domingo Santana are his remaining OF's.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Funny you say that, because he already has Kyle Seager... lol

Kyle Schwarber, Adam Eaton, Denard Span, Khris Davis and Domingo Santana are his remaining OF's.

WOW, very weak... honestly, moves like that can lose leagues...

 

[powerchord86]

Lose leagues? Like as in everyone gets mad and quits?

 

[tlance]

fine you caught me exaggerating... it is not the same thing... But I hate when there is a clear winner in a trade, with NO debate...

if you advised the other team, would there be any scenario where you would say trade Trout for Donaldson?? if his OF was good enough to get rid of trout, then he could have just gotten a kyle seager type instead... and then been FINE...

Yes there would. In this case, the owner trading Trout looks like a huge idiot. Here is an example where trading Trout for Donaldson would be a good move:

Let's assume 3 OF starters, no CI and keeper term limit of 3 seasons.

Team 1:
3B: Turner
OF: Trout, Marte, Pence, Brantley, D. Santana

If your league looks like this and you can't keep Trout longer than 3 years, Donaldson would be a much better fit for the roster. Trout does not steal much anymore, so he is no longer the consensus number 1 he used to be. Don't be surprised if 1 of these guys overtakes him next year:

Goldy, Donaldson, Harper, Arenado or Machado

 

[tlance]

Lose leagues? Like as in everyone gets mad and quits?

I think he means like his team can't compete because he made a bad move.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yes there would. In this case, the owner trading Trout looks like a huge idiot. Here is an example where trading Trout for Donaldson would be a good move:

Let's assume 3 OF starters, no CI and keeper term limit of 3 seasons.

Team 1:
3B: Turner
OF: Trout, Marte, Pence, Brantley, D. Santana

If your league looks like this and you can't keep Trout longer than 3 years, Donaldson would be a much better fit for the roster. Trout does not steal much anymore, so he is no longer the consensus number 1 he used to be. Don't be surprised if 1 of these guys overtakes him next year:

Goldy, Donaldson, Harper, Arenado or Machado

He wasn't the best player last year either... But elite value is not just based on who is projected to be better, but the probability of the player surpassing their floor... At this point Trout is safe as hell not to leave the top 10 players in baseball...

And yes, there will always be scenarios in specific leagues where trading Donaldson for Trout makes sense... should not of said there aren't... my keeper league is one, as it is all about contracts and stuff...

But if similar keeper value(or redraft), even in your scenario, I would say it was an awful move... Again, if you can afford to get rid of trout, then you should be attempting a lesser trade... Why would you start with a trade where you LOSE the trade?? and clearly this is a starting offer as it is not even the 3rd day of baseball...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

what is even worse, this is a keeper league... If he had Donaldson to be better, why would he wait until after the 2nd day of games??

 

[tlance]

He wasn't the best player last year either... But elite value is not just based on who is projected to be better, but the probability of the player surpassing their floor... At this point Trout is safe as hell not to leave the top 10 players in baseball...

And yes, there will always be scenarios in specific leagues where trading Donaldson for Trout makes sense... should not of said there aren't... my keeper league is one, as it is all about contracts and stuff...

But if similar keeper value(or redraft), even in your scenario, I would say it was an awful move... Again, if you can afford to get rid of trout, then you should be attempting a lesser trade... Why would you start with a trade where you LOSE the trade?? and clearly this is a starting offer as it is not even the 3rd day of baseball...

I disagree Milk. You are too caught up in projections. Any good fantasy owner worth their salt will make their own, at least informally. I actually believe the gap between Donaldson and Trout is microscopic, at least in re-draft leagues. Trout has the higher floor, but Donaldson has 3B which is immensely valuable. Now, long term keeper leagues are a different beast all together.

I also happen to be a value slave, so I would not make this deal without getting something else back because of the fact that Trout is perceived to have more value.

But, for this year, and this year only? I would rather have Donaldson on my roster than Trout. If I had pick #1, I would either take Goldschmidt or look to trade down to mid-first round. I HATE taking an OF first, even if you get to start 5. There are too many values to be had later.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I disagree Milk. You are too caught up in projections. Any good fantasy owner worth their salt will make their own, at least informally. I actually believe the gap between Donaldson and Trout is microscopic, at least in re-draft leagues. Trout has the higher floor, but Donaldson has 3B which is immensely valuable. Now, long term keeper leagues are a different beast all together.

I also happen to be a value slave, so I would not make this deal without getting something else back because of the fact that Trout is perceived to have more value.

But, for this year, and this year only? I would rather have Donaldson on my roster than Trout. If I had pick #1, I would either take Goldschmidt or look to trade down to mid-first round. I HATE taking an OF first, even if you get to start 5. There are too many values to be had later.

I am not disagreeing with how some people can value Donaldson as better... I am disagreeing with the timing of the trade(if this league has no preseason trades then I have no problem with it), but the trout owner could have made this trade whenever he wanted... why wait until after the season started??

 

[powerchord86]

I am not disagreeing with how some people can value Donaldson as better... I am disagreeing with the timing of the trade(if this league has no preseason trades then I have no problem with it), but the trout owner could have made this trade whenever he wanted... why wait until after the season started??

For me, I wanted to wait until after the draft so I could better asses my team needs. I had too much 3B and not enough OF. I'd been trying to make a trade happen to move Matt Duffy but no takers. So I said to hell with it and went big and offered an MVP (Donaldson) for an MVP (Trout). I fully expected to get shot down again but for whatever reason, he liked the trade. I'll take it!

 

[tlance]

I am not disagreeing with how some people can value Donaldson as better... I am disagreeing with the timing of the trade(if this league has no preseason trades then I have no problem with it), but the trout owner could have made this trade whenever he wanted... why wait until after the season started??

You are again jumping to the veto conclusion and making far too many assumptions. What if they just drafted this past weekend? There are plenty of potential reasons to trade this week.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You are again jumping to the veto conclusion and making far too many assumptions. What if they just drafted this past weekend? There are plenty of potential reasons to trade this week.

redrafts are worse...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

For me, I wanted to wait until after the draft so I could better asses my team needs. I had too much 3B and not enough OF. I'd been trying to make a trade happen to move Matt Duffy but no takers. So I said to hell with it and went big and offered an MVP (Donaldson) for an MVP (Trout). I fully expected to get shot down again but for whatever reason, he liked the trade. I'll take it!

so it was your offer?? that makes even less sense... Great job on your part identifying the weak owner and making him pay...