Best QB of the 2012 draft class

[broncosmitty]

You have a knack for making your homerism almost sound plausible. And such conviction. One would think you bought your own bullshit.

There's no way anybody is buying that bullshit. Is there?

 

[Am I Blue Through it All?]

There's no way anybody is buying that bullshit. Is there?

Hmmmmm. Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Their man did get the second most votes, although the margin is rather wide. Guess I just like the way smartness takes an indefensible position and tries to make it seem like gospel.

In general though, don't you hate arrogant assholes that speak (or type) as if they were looking down at you from Olympus? :rollseyes:

 

[Smart]

In general though, don't you hate arrogant assholes that speak (or type) as if they were looking down at you from Olympus? :rollseyes:

Yep. Using stats to try to argue? Elitist.

Just stating a fact without any evidence, and then dismissing the person with the actual argument? Perfectly fine.

I don't think I'm naturally better than anybody. But when I can show that my side of the argument has significantly better stats in a worse situation, and nobody in 90 posts has made anything remotely making an argument against my side, I think my argument is better than yours. So yes, I look down on your argument.

If it makes me an arrogant asshole to think that stats are better than pure perception, than I'll gladly be an arrogant asshole.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Football is not like baseball where we can compare 2 players of the same position so easily...

The problem with comparing Luck with both wilson and RG3 is that Luck throws much more, so of course he will have more interceptions...

I wish there was a stat in football that really took in scenarios, since that is all football is... there is the ESPN total QBR but we all agree that that is not the greatest stat... But if we do use that stat then Luck is 62 while Russell Wilson was 58.9... So Luck was better under the only metric that measures everything, even if we dont like how it is measured...

Although last season Wilson and RG3 did have the better TQBR than Luck...


The truth is that any team would be happy with either Wilson or Luck(RG3 has become a question mark and Foles needs one more season to prove his worth). But since neither of them are the clear choice, i would have to choose Luck solely because he has the body and the pedigree to grow more as a QB and is more of the prototypical pocket passing QB...

 

[Wazmankg]

Sack rate is a terrible metric to use to evaluate OL pass blocking. Guys with high sack rates generally have one thing in common and it isn't that they line up behind poor offensive lines. They tend to be guys who are good runners who try to extend plays with their legs and often get burned. There may be a couple of exceptions to this rule but Wilson ain't one of them.

 

[Midnightangel]

Not voting on this. It's WAY to early to tell how these guys are going to do. We've seen QB's flash brilliantly for a couple years then fizzle and we've seen some late bloomers as well. It's just to early.

 

[Smart]

Sack rate is a terrible metric to use to evaluate OL pass blocking. Guys with high sack rates generally have one thing in common and it isn't that they line up behind poor offensive lines. They tend to be guys who are good runners who try to extend plays with their legs and often get burned. There may be a couple of exceptions to this rule but Wilson ain't one of them.

Um....Andrew Luck only had 3 "easy" sacks all year according to Pressure Points (which is the stat I used, not sack rate). Russell Wilson had 11 (on 200 fewer dropbacks), and it would have been more if he didn't turn those "easy" sacks into "hurries."

But once again, keep making bullshit arguments that are easily refuted by the actual facts.

 

[SonnyCID]

Man, I have to assume that one did not watch much of the Seahawks this year if they don't understand how bad that line was for most of the year. They've gotten healthier so they're much stronger now, but they were horrid in pass blocking for a long time.

 

[Oldschool739]

If you had to pick one of these QBs, which would it be?

Russell Wilson has accomplished more than any of them have in this short time, but I would choose Andrew Luck as the best of that draft.....And I would rank Wilson a close #2, Foles/Tanny #3 ..

 

[rmilia1]

Id go

1. Wilson
2. Luck
3. RG3
4. Foles
5. Tannehill

RG3 is 3rd becuase Im not sure on the injury, if he comes back full strength Id have him 2. I dont understand why people bust Wilsons chops for having a good running game but no one says shit when QBs have great receivers and put up good numbers. Both are equally important. The top 2 right now are interchangeable IMO but Wislon is simply better when it counts ( 3-1 in playoffs compared to Luck at 1-2)

 

[France_Steve]

So far I have to agree with Smart's assertion that nobody has given an actual reason that Luck is better. What people say is that he has a worse defense and worse running game, therefore his stats are worse. For those that are sure Luck is better, what skills does he have that Russell Wilson does not? Better arm strength, accuracy, elusiveness? I have seen people post that luck is unquestionably better and I don't understand whatis unquestionably better about him. I have watched him and he is good, but I think he is as good as Wilson not better.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

So far I have to agree with Smart's assertion that nobody has given an actual reason that Luck is better. What people say is that he has a worse defense and worse running game, therefore his stats are worse. For those that are sure Luck is better, what skills does he have that Russell Wilson does not? Better arm strength, accuracy, elusiveness? I have seen people post that luck is unquestionably better and I don't understand whatis unquestionably better about him. I have watched him and he is good, but I think he is as good as Wilson not better.

There is also the small detail about schedules and divisions. Wilson has put up outstanding numbers despite playing in the toughest defensive division in football.

 

[broncosmitty]

There is also the small detail about schedules and divisions. Wilson has put up outstanding numbers despite playing in the toughest defensive division in football.

Are those defenses the reason he fumbles so much?

 

[Am I Blue Through it All?]

Yep. Using stats to try to argue? Elitist.

Just stating a fact without any evidence, and then dismissing the person with the actual argument? Perfectly fine.

I don't think I'm naturally better than anybody. But when I can show that my side of the argument has significantly better stats in a worse situation, and nobody in 90 posts has made anything remotely making an argument against my side, I think my argument is better than yours. So yes, I look down on your argument.

If it makes me an arrogant asshole to think that stats are better than pure perception, than I'll gladly be an arrogant asshole.

Actually, I was poking fun at myself a bit. But inflamed with passion for your man, I figured you would not notice and you didn't. So be it. You support your man as you should. The majority prefers Luck, as I believe they should. Comparing statistics in situations where there are so many variables and few constants seems, well, rather fruitless?

Wilson is a fine young talent at qb and seems to be a great kid as well. How about we leave it at that?

 

[Money]

How anyone could choose any of these QBs over Luck is baffling to me.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Are those defenses the reason he fumbles so much?

He doesn't fumble all that much in the first place and also Yes it would be a great reason why any QB would fumble more. More pressure, more scrambling, more sacks would all be caused by a great defense and they would also cause more fumbles. Hell, we just saw it happen twice in the NCFCCG, once to Wilson and once to Kaepernick. Those two defense forced those fumbles through great execution and pressure.

 

[Oldschool739]

Id go

1. Wilson
2. Luck
3. RG3
4. Foles
5. Tannehill

RG3 is 3rd becuase Im not sure on the injury, if he comes back full strength Id have him 2. I dont understand why people bust Wilsons chops for having a good running game but no one says shit when QBs have great receivers and put up good numbers. Both are equally important. The top 2 right now are interchangeable IMO but Wislon is simply better when it counts ( 3-1 in playoffs compared to Luck at 1-2)

We're talking about over all football skills, not who can run the fastest, so RG-3 shouldn't even be on the list or at the bottom at least....The boy thinks he's a super star and ain't even mediocre, he's been media spoofed, just like Kap...Difference is only that Kap has a better team around him, he's only slightly above mediocre.

 

[Clayton]

You know, while most GMs would take Luck...Wilson is currently in the lead