Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[fightinfunbags]

Sixers fans: here's a paragraph why Ben Simmons should command a top 15ish player in return

Sixers fans last year after playoffs: dude is hot garbage

Lol

There's an important piece you've left out. Most teams don't have the patience Morey has shown. They get the ultimatum and they deal a guy for pennies on the dollar. Simmons is a bona fide top 30 player partnered with the likely worst fit for his game in the NBA, a dominant 5. The Sixers offering a deal with Simmons and a Thuybulle/Maxey plus their two picks in 2022 and 2023 will stack up as better than most. And lets face it. For that player looking to get out, they'll only present options that would allow for a deal to some 10-15% of teams and for a wing picking to play with Joel Embiid is what really matters.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Of course.

Lightly protected or unprotected in 2023 is what I have been saying in every post.

And we're telling you that it's not likely that is the case. It isn't even a 2022 pick and who knows if it even confers in 2023.

 

[The Q]

Sixers fans: here's a paragraph why Ben Simmons should command a top 15ish player in return

Sixers fans last year after playoffs: dude is hot garbage

Lol

Sums up the entire thread

 

[The Q]

There's an important piece you've left out. Most teams don't have the patience Morey has shown. They get the ultimatum and they deal a guy for pennies on the dollar. Simmons is a bona fide top 30 player partnered with the likely worst fit for his game in the NBA, a dominant 5. The Sixers offering a deal with Simmons and a Thuybulle/Maxey plus their two picks in 2022 and 2023 will stack up as better than most. And lets face it. For that player looking to get out, they'll only present options that would allow for a deal to some 10-15% of teams and for a wing picking to play with Joel Embiid is what really matters.

I think the nets should do that for long term reasons.

But they may have the new Simmons with Durant if they did it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

There's an important piece you've left out. Most teams don't have the patience Morey has shown. They get the ultimatum and they deal a guy for pennies on the dollar. Simmons is a bona fide top 30 player partnered with the likely worst fit for his game in the NBA, a dominant 5. The Sixers offering a deal with Simmons and a Thuybulle/Maxey plus their two picks in 2022 and 2023 will stack up as better than most. And lets face it. For that player looking to get out, they'll only present options that would allow for a deal to some 10-15% of teams and for a wing picking to play with Joel Embiid is what really matters.

I can see it playing out that way but I can also see it blowing up in their face. I agree based entirely on his skillset he's a top 30 guy

 

[fightinfunbags]

I think the nets should do that for long term reasons.

But they may have the new Simmons with Durant if they did it.

That's a great example. Harden wants out this summer. What is out there that a team is going to provide the Nets for Harden that is going to be better for that team than Simmon? They have KD and Kyrie to score. Simmons doesn't need shots to impact the game and now KD isn't the only plus defender in their group. He gives them a guy who guards all 5 positions and can play small ball center for them.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I can see it playing out that way but I can also see it blowing up in their face. I agree based entirely on his skillset he's a top 30 guy

And I don't see it "blowing up" to a point where a deal similar to the one we're debating isn't still available at that time.

 

[The Q]

That's a great example. Harden wants out this summer. What is out there that a team is going to provide the Nets for Harden that is going to be better for that team than Simmon? They have KD and Kyrie to score. Simmons doesn't need shots to impact the game and now KD isn't the only plus defender in their group. He gives them a guy who guards all 5 positions and can play small ball center for them.

They should also flip all the picks plus cam and maxey and have an interesting starting point to another big trade

 

[fightinfunbags]

They should also flip all the picks plus cam and maxey and have an interesting starting point to another big trade

Who is Cam? I'm lost in what you're talking about.

 

[flyerhawk]

Of course.

Lightly protected or unprotected in 2023 is what I have been saying in every post.

I don't think they can trade their 2023 pick until after the 2022 draft. Stepien rule.

 

[The Q]

Who is Cam? I'm lost in what you're talking about.

Cam Thomas. The nets first rounder this year

 

[tlance]

I don't think they can trade their 2023 pick until after the 2022 draft. Stepien rule.

Can they trade 2022?

If so, you put a lottery protection on 2022. 100% won’t convey.

Make it top 2 protected in 2023 and unprotected after.

That is a valuable asset that teams would want.

 

[tlance]

That's a great example. Harden wants out this summer. What is out there that a team is going to provide the Nets for Harden that is going to be better for that team than Simmon? They have KD and Kyrie to score. Simmons doesn't need shots to impact the game and now KD isn't the only plus defender in their group. He gives them a guy who guards all 5 positions and can play small ball center for them.

Simmons for Kyrie made sense to me a couple months ago.

Simmons for Harden though?

Risky man. Nets get too strong from that deal. Along with seemingly diminishing returns from Harden, that is no bueno.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Simmons for Kyrie made sense to me a couple months ago.

Simmons for Harden though?

Risky man. Nets get too strong from that deal. Along with seemingly diminishing returns from Harden, that is no bueno.

I don’t think Harden fits that group to be honest. Harden Embiid is a chance at a championship.

 

[flyerhawk]

Can they trade 2022?

If so, you put a lottery protection on 2022. 100% won’t convey.

Make it top 2 protected in 2023 and unprotected after.

That is a valuable asset that teams would want.

No. Houston owns their 2022. Even worse for them is that it is top 16 protected this year, top 18 protected in 2023 and 2024 and top 13 protected in 2025.

So it's possible that the they won't be able to trade their 1st round pick for YEARS.

Now they could make a deal with the Sixers in which they get Simmons and agree to draft the player the Sixers want. But that gets really tricky as well. Because the deal would then be based on weird conditionals of being a pick between, say, 3-15 and they couldn't do it for future years because the deal would need to be finalized this year.

So realistically the only way the Pistons could make a trade with their draft is to either A) make it effectively unprotected and then make the pick for them or B) wait until after the lottery is selected and decide whether they would give up the asset based on their draft slot.

The more I read up on it, the less I find that Pistons pick to be a real asset.

 

[tlance]

I don’t think Harden fits that group to be honest. Harden Embiid is a chance at a championship.

He doesn’t.

But Simmons does.

Simmons fits extremely well.

 

[tlance]

No. Houston owns their 2022. Even worse for them is that it is top 16 protected this year, top 18 protected in 2023 and 2024 and top 13 protected in 2025.

So it's possible that the they won't be able to trade their 1st round pick for YEARS.

Now they could make a deal with the Sixers in which they get Simmons and agree to draft the player the Sixers want. But that gets really tricky as well. Because the deal would then be based on weird conditionals of being a pick between, say, 3-15 and they couldn't do it for future years because the deal would need to be finalized this year.

So realistically the only way the Pistons could make a trade with their draft is to either A) make it effectively unprotected and then make the pick for them or B) wait until after the lottery is selected and decide whether they would give up the asset based on their draft slot.

The more I read up on it, the less I find that Pistons pick to be a real asset.

Ok, well that changes things a lot.

 

[shopson67]

There's an important piece you've left out. Most teams don't have the patience Morey has shown. They get the ultimatum and they deal a guy for pennies on the dollar. Simmons is a bona fide top 30 player partnered with the likely worst fit for his game in the NBA, a dominant 5. The Sixers offering a deal with Simmons and a Thuybulle/Maxey plus their two picks in 2022 and 2023 will stack up as better than most. And lets face it. For that player looking to get out, they'll only present options that would allow for a deal to some 10-15% of teams and for a wing picking to play with Joel Embiid is what really matters.

Boston showed extreme patience using their arsenal of picks. Danny kept them so long that the ultimate impact was more of a whimper.

Simmons' rep is only going to get worse with time as people forget his positive aspects and only see the guy who failed his last time on the court and fought with his team to get out from his "horrible situation on a perennial contender". The longer he sits out, the more distant his upside his appears to be.

Who would the Nets rather have if they move Harden; a non-scoring oversized point guard or Dame Lillard? One of the draft pick hoarding franchises could step up with a huge package of prospects and picks. Who knows what offers will arise if Harden hits the market.

Embiid isn't the best bait either, since he routinely misses 20 games a year and has yet to get past the second round.

 

[flyerhawk]

Boston showed extreme patience using their arsenal of picks. Danny kept them so long that the ultimate impact was more of a whimper.

The Celtics got a little unlucky that some of their trade assets wound up being a lot worse than they were expecting. The Kings and Grizzlies picks, IIRC, wound up being very late lottery picks.

In retrospect, it could be argued that the Celtics should have pulled the trigger for Kawhi.

Simmons' rep is only going to get worse with time as people forget his positive aspects and only see the guy who failed his last time on the court and fought with his team to get out from his "horrible situation on a perennial contender". The longer he sits out, the more distant his upside his appears to be.

It isn't going to change that much in a few months. Maybe if we go into the 2022 season with him playing Xbox that could happen. But I think most teams have established whatever value they have for him and that is unlikely to change between now and July.

Who would the Nets rather have if they move Harden; a non-scoring oversized point guard or Dame Lillard? One of the draft pick hoarding franchises could step up with a huge package of prospects and picks. Who knows what offers will arise if Harden hits the market.

Dame Lillard may already be on the back 9 of his career. He hasn't looked right since the Olympics and now he is probably done for the year. And why would the Rockets want James Harden? He has one year left on his contract and the Blazers are looking to blow things up.

Embiid isn't the best bait either, since he routinely misses 20 games a year and has yet to get past the second round.

Why would Embiid be bait?

 

[flyerhawk]

Ok, well that changes things a lot.

Which is why the details matter in these rumors.