Bears will trade down IMO.

[richig07]

I'm not overreacting here. We lost a good young player that we needed and was cheap. But that is not my problem here, my problem is Pace blows in every aspect of being a GM except one and that's good drafting. My problem is we are 1 WR injury away from last years team. My problem is we gave 32 mil for a TE with 400 yds in 4 years, I like the guy but not at that price. My problem is we let a very fair priced vet G go and have no replacement. My problem is we paid way to much for a speed WR. My problem is we have to use the draft to replace guys we already had. But my biggest issue is Rich saying ( I have faith in Pace. He's given me zero reason to doubt him.) My whole point is he has done plenty to doubt him and I do. I also see the good he has done and I believe we have a bright future. Lets review my sticking point (zero reasons). If Rich said (few reasons) we would technically be good. I could come up with 25 reasons to doubt him and Rich 0, I don't buy that.

My problem is we are 1 WR injury away from last years team.

A) Saying this before the draft is absurd.

B) Even if we do not draft a WR. We would need injuries to AR, Gabriel and White for that to happen. So, how does this possibly add up?

My problem is we let a very fair priced vet G go and have no replacement.

Dude. I honestly don't know what to say at this point.

Are you aware that the NFL draft hasn't happened yet? I am kind of at a loss for words... We are projected to take Nelson by many. The best guard prospect... arguably ever.

My problem is we gave 32 mil for a TE with 400 yds in 4 years

This is just dishonest. Burton was a FB his first two years in the league and spent the last two years transitioning. Was behind Celek/Ertz on the depth chart and played so well they couldn't keep him off of the field even with those two guys these past two years.

He was one of the most efficient red zone TE's in football last year and had a 74.2 catch percentage. In his only start, he caught 5 of 6 targets for 71 yards and 2 TD's.

He has 22 mil guaranteed over 4 years. Which could turn out to be a complete bargain for his potential. He had many, many suitors. Philly fans are very bummed to lose him.

If Rich said (few reasons) we would technically be good. I could come up with 25 reasons to doubt him and Rich 0, I don't buy that.

I am looking at his body of work, as a whole. While you are nit-picking mistakes and DRASTICALLY over exaggerating the impact of them. Approximately ZERO of his FA misses have rendered harm for this team.

Name a GM who doesn't make mistakes in FA. I'll wait. Absolutely ZERO of Pace's mistakes have hurt our cap situation or our future. He took very low-risk swings at a few guys who didn't work out. The ENTIRE time Pace has been here. Our arrow has been moving up. In EVERY. SINGLE. FACET of football. Offense, defense, special teams and now coaching.

I will say it again, Pace has given ZERO reason for us to do anything besides praise him. Imagine how silly you're going to look if this team turns a corner into perennial contention over the next few years and you're still crying because of Cameron f'ing Meredith and Josh Sitton. lol

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I'm not overreacting here. We lost a good young player that we needed and was cheap. But that is not my problem here, my problem is Pace blows in every aspect of being a GM except one and that's good drafting. My problem is we are 1 WR injury away from last years team. My problem is we gave 32 mil for a TE with 400 yds in 4 years, I like the guy but not at that price. My problem is we let a very fair priced vet G go and have no replacement. My problem is we paid way to much for a speed WR. My problem is we have to use the draft to replace guys we already had. But my biggest issue is Rich saying ( I have faith in Pace. He's given me zero reason to doubt him.) My whole point is he has done plenty to doubt him and I do. I also see the good he has done and I believe we have a bright future. Lets review my sticking point (zero reasons). If Rich said (few reasons) we would technically be good. I could come up with 25 reasons to doubt him and Rich 0, I don't buy that.

Meredith doesn’t really fit the new offense. We are not 1 injury away from last years team because we have two stud TEs and Gabriel still to throw to. A Robinson loss would be devastating, but even without him, we are way better than last year. Burton is going to be a flat out stud. Just wait. The Eagles are going to regret letting him go. He is SO underrated right now it’s not even funny. think you’re overrating Sutton. Would you rather we replace him while he’s on he roster?

Pace still has work to do, but these aren’t egregious mistakes. He might’ve slightly overpaid for FAs, but I never understood why fans get so upset about that. Sure it limits their flexibility later on, but 95% of free agents get overpaid. That’s just the nature of the business.

I’m surprised your flipping your wig over such marginal moves. Usually your over optimistic in the face of awful moves. Maybe this is a good sign?

 

[BsGenius]

other teams nabbed them up quick but I guess only Pace is right

Chicago turned Meredith down.
Indy also turned him down.
Baltimore turned him down.
Finally he lands in New Orleans and you think that doesn't mean anything? Obviously most of the teams out there agrees with the Bears on Meredith.

It's so silly to see all these Bear fans losing their shit for Meredith. My lord, Meredith? Freaking acting like this guy is Jerry Rice

 

[wood20ks]

I still don`t think we trade down.................I hate to think we give up our pick of the top 5 elite players/someone whos gonna be a difference maker just to add an extra pick.............Damn I hate the thought of it.

 

[richig07]

other teams nabbed them up quick but I guess only Pace is right

Chicago turned Meredith down.
Indy also turned him down.
Baltimore turned him down.
Finally he lands in New Orleans and you think that doesn't mean anything? Obviously most of the teams out there agrees with the Bears on Meredith.

It's so silly to see all these Bear fans losing their shit for Meredith. My lord, Meredith? Freaking acting like this guy is Jerry Rice

Hey... look

I agree with BS.

It sure seems like Meredith had an all-pro season that slipped through the cracks. I don't see it anywhere.

I truly liked Meredith, but good god people.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

other teams nabbed them up quick but I guess only Pace is right

Chicago turned Meredith down.
Indy also turned him down.
Baltimore turned him down.
Finally he lands in New Orleans and you think that doesn't mean anything? Obviously most of the teams out there agrees with the Bears on Meredith.

It's so silly to see all these Bear fans losing their shit for Meredith. My lord, Meredith? Freaking acting like this guy is Jerry Rice

None of those teams turned him down wtf are you talking about and 2 offered him a contract. He signed the one he wanted. Bears did not pony up to match his best offer but that is not turning him down. And I'm not freaking out over it. I do think it was a mistake for sure but not a critical one.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Meredith doesn’t really fit the new offense. We are not 1 injury away from last years team because we have two stud TEs and Gabriel still to throw to. A Robinson loss would be devastating, but even without him, we are way better than last year. Burton is going to be a flat out stud. Just wait. The Eagles are going to regret letting him go. He is SO underrated right now it’s not even funny. think you’re overrating Sutton. Would you rather we replace him while he’s on he roster?

Pace still has work to do, but these aren’t egregious mistakes. He might’ve slightly overpaid for FAs, but I never understood why fans get so upset about that. Sure it limits their flexibility later on, but 95% of free agents get overpaid. That’s just the nature of the business.

I’m surprised your flipping your wig over such marginal moves. Usually your over optimistic in the face of awful moves. Maybe this is a good sign?

Lose AR and we are fkd like last year. Gabriel without AR taking pressure off would be useless and Burton and Shaheen are exciting but so far from proven. Combined they don't have 700 yds in their careers yet. And then if AR gets hurt we will see 11 in the box again and our run game suffers. Also I did not overrate Sitton I just stated truths, 2 years ago he was a probowler and last year he rated as the 5th best G in the NFL. Them are facts. And I like CM but he is not critical or irreplaceable. My beef with losing him is more about having to replace him with a draft pick. We need G OLB ILB WR. And we need them to be starters. Think we can get 3 to 5 starters out of this one draft? Odds are against it. These are holes we made for no real reason at G and WR.

 

[BsGenius]

The sky it falling, we lost Cam Meredith, what are we's gonna do? Because everyone knows with Meredith we win the superbowl. Pace is an idiot for not knowing this. All he had to do was look in this forum.

Bears remain having the most ignorant fan base in the league.

Bunch of idiot whining about nothing.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

@ BS

I'm not freaking out over Meridith or freaking out at all. Meridith is one in a long line of silly mistakes. I don't expect more then 6 wins this year with or without Meridith. We still have very little talent overall and a very young team learning a new complicated system with a rookie HC. I like the overall direction of this team but don't believe we will get out of the NFCN basement this year. We are a building team heading in the right direction but still a year min away from a WC. We are nowhere close in talent to Phi or the Rams and won't break out like either of them did last year. If you wanna pretend Pace is not making mistakes then go for it. You wanna pretend losing players with no replacements in sight helps us then go for it. You wanna pretend other teams aren't happy to snag our old players then go ahead. But don't pretend I'm freaking out because last place in our div was gonna happen either way IMO.

 

[wood20ks]

The problem that is seen with losing Meredith is that he shown promise 2 seasons ago and never got the chance to showcase it last season..........and now it seems like we lost a wr that needs to be replaced.

Sign him and now all that needed to be done was get a o-lineman and work on defense....but now it looks like we`re gonna waste a pick(2nd or 3rd imo)on a wr that we didn`t need..........

oh well

 

[wood20ks]

Impossible to tell if Pace has made a single mistake yet. The concern with Meredith appears to be genuine with his knee. Sitton is old, been banged up with injuries and was owed more than he is worth taking that into consideration. We need guys who are going to stay healthy. It's entirely possible that we've been eyeing Nelson this entire time. Which makes complete sense in releasing Sitton.

If they like a WR on day 2 more than Meredith coming off of a ACL/MCL. I'm okay with the decision - I'd be pissed if we draft Ridley, though.

Doubt we trade down. 4 QB's and Barkley going in front of us leaves 3 guys in Roquan Smith, Chubb and Nelson who are top 5 overall talents. All that fit one of those positions of need, not to mention.

Pace has done a magnificent job to this point. Very little to criticize outside of a few FA moves and White. Which he really had no way of knowing that his body would just implode. He inherited a complete mess in 2015. Looked like it couldn't be salvaged. Fast forward just 3 years and he has the fan-base optimistic. He has done everything right. He's built a great young core through the draft on D. Has found nuggets of gold with Whitehair and Howard in the mid-late rounds on offense. He took a QB we all seem to believe in going forward and hired a coach we're pretty pumped about. He took measures to assure we kept Fangio aboard.

I have faith in Pace. He's given me zero reason to doubt him. So, until that happens - I put my trust in him.

Eh,I think its fine............I would like to think that Cam`s agent would be getting a dr`s. report to show Cam`s knee is fine........
These teams are not stupid,they`re not gonna go out and sign any player coming off knee surgery or any other type of surgery with out getting some type of report.
I`m pretty sure Pace had seen AR`s surgery report before signing him.........

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Lose AR and we are fkd like last year. Gabriel without AR taking pressure off would be useless and Burton and Shaheen are exciting but so far from proven. Combined they don't have 700 yds in their careers yet. And then if AR gets hurt we will see 11 in the box again and our run game suffers. Also I did not overrate Sitton I just stated truths, 2 years ago he was a probowler and last year he rated as the 5th best G in the NFL. Them are facts. And I like CM but he is not critical or irreplaceable. My beef with losing him is more about having to replace him with a draft pick. We need G OLB ILB WR. And we need them to be starters. Think we can get 3 to 5 starters out of this one draft? Odds are against it. These are holes we made for no real reason at G and WR.

We have Whitehair who can excel at guard. We don’t even need to address guard in the draft. We can grab a serviceable starting center in the draft and our line is looking good again. I’d set the need at G/C, and that can be addressed easily through the later rounds of the draft. As for offensive weapons, you continue to severely underrate Burton. Burton will be an elite TE in this system. Burton will be getting all the production Richi thought was going to Meredith. I’ve heard he will be playing mismatches in the slot more than TE. He’s our version of Kelce in this offense. You also fail to understand he business side of things. You want to pay a player for what you think he will produce, not for what he has produced. We got young players that have much less mileage on their bodies.

You hating the Gabriel move is baffling to me too. Nagy’s system needs players like Gabriel and Cohen. We got AR as a mismatch on the outside, and then a glut of TEs and RBs that provide mismatches on defense. Meredith would’ve been redundant on this team. With an AR injury, we still have plenty of weapons that will function in this offense. Last year, we were throwing to scrubs in a shitty offensive system. Next year we have added 3 quality pass catchers so far, and got an offensive system that is not run by a shitty OC.

As for Sitton, there’s a reason he’s been cut twice since his pro bowl. He’s either a shitty teammate, has shitty health, or just a shitty player. Oline stats be damned.

You see gaping holes, I see us needing a quality OLB and some quality role playing olinemen, a role playing WR, and a role playing ILB. We don’t need world beaters in these holes you see to be good. We just need guys that don’t screw up and do their job.

 

[wood20ks]

We have Whitehair who can excel at guard. We don’t even need to address guard in the draft. We can grab a serviceable starting center in the draft and our line is looking good again. I’d set the need at G/C, and that can be addressed easily through the later rounds of the draft. As for offensive weapons, you continue to severely underrate Burton. Burton will be an elite TE in this system. Burton will be getting all the production Richi thought was going to Meredith. I’ve heard he will be playing mismatches in the slot more than TE. He’s our version of Kelce in this offense. You also fail to understand he business side of things. You want to pay a player for what you think he will produce, not for what he has produced. We got young players that have much less mileage on their bodies.

You hating the Gabriel move is baffling to me too. Nagy’s system needs players like Gabriel and Cohen. We got AR as a mismatch on the outside, and then a glut of TEs and RBs that provide mismatches on defense. Meredith would’ve been redundant on this team. With an AR injury, we still have plenty of weapons that will function in this offense. Last year, we were throwing to scrubs in a shitty offensive system. Next year we have added 3 quality pass catchers so far, and got an offensive system that is not run by a shitty OC.

As for Sitton, there’s a reason he’s been cut twice since his pro bowl. He’s either a shitty teammate, has shitty health, or just a shitty player. Oline stats be damned.

You see gaping holes, I see us needing a quality OLB and some quality role playing olinemen, a role playing WR, and a role playing ILB. We don’t need world beaters in these holes you see to be good. We just need guys that don’t screw up and do their job.

We have a good chance at getting Nelson or McGlinchey.......Whom both played under Hiestand. He knows those two like the back of his hand.
Why would we draft our qb of the future and not protect him better with an outstanding lineman than just serviceable.........?

The more and more the draft is getting closer,I`m hoping for one of those two or Edmunds.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

@ BF
I'm not underestimating Burton. In fact I expect him to get 50 to 60 rec with 6 TDs and 600 yds this year. The guy spent 2 years as a FB then 2 as a TE and now will learn a third position (slot). He will be on a young team learning a whole new system together. I think it will take time is all. I also like Shaheen and think he will get about the same numbers as Burton. I don't expect either players to be at the top of their games this year but it's coming. I don't hate the Gabriel move but he is not a 2. He is a role player and fits the role we need him for. Sitton would have been a starter here like he is with his new team, I don't like losing our top Olineman with no replacement in sight. 90% chance Nelson is long gone by our pick. Draft Billy Price C Ohio ST with our second and move CW to G and I am a happy camper. But we do have major holes we can't fill in one draft. We have 1 starter quality ILB and 1 OLB. We have no 2 WR and bad depth at every position but RB. Can you tell me we won't finish 4th in our div again? It's year 4 of this rebuild and we still are a 6 win team and basement NFCN team. I feel we would be farther ahead with a better GM at the helm. It should not take 5 plus years to get out of the basement.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Dead right Wood. Our whole rebuild depends on Trubs and we better do better the serviceable on the Oline.

 

[richig07]

Eh,I think its fine............I would like to think that Cam`s agent would be getting a dr`s. report to show Cam`s knee is fine........
These teams are not stupid,they`re not gonna go out and sign any player coming off knee surgery or any other type of surgery with out getting some type of report.
I`m pretty sure Pace had seen AR`s surgery report before signing him.........

I mean, it happens all of the time. Teams take a chance on a player coming off of injury and he's not what he used to be. Sammy Watkins is a great example. Never been the same since having that plate put in his foot. In reality, the majority of skill players with an injury like the one Meredith suffered (ACL + another crucial ligament like the MCL) don't ever return to their previous form.

That's major knee reconstruction. Modern medicine is great and the recovery is faster than it used to be. It's been cut nearly in half from one year, to 6-8 months. However, when it comes to a return. The Adrian Peterson's of the world (came back to win the rushing title and rush for 2K) are still an outlier.

Even though AR's was just a clean ACL tear, it's possible this happens with him as well. I wanted Meredith back, I made that clear. However, I don't blame us for not wanting two of those guys around to depend on as our starting WR's. If you're going to choose one, I also understand taking the guy whose a bit more proven. Where as we were still waiting for Meredith to really break out.

 

[wood20ks]

I mean, it happens all of the time. Teams take a chance on a player coming off of injury and he's not what he used to be. Sammy Watkins is a great example. Never been the same since having that plate put in his foot. In reality, the majority of skill players with an injury like the one Meredith suffered (ACL + another crucial ligament like the MCL) don't ever return to their previous form.

That's major knee reconstruction. Modern medicine is great and the recovery is faster than it used to be. It's been cut nearly in half from one year, to 6-8 months. However, when it comes to a return. The Adrian Peterson's of the world (came back to win the rushing title and rush for 2K) are still an outlier.

Even though AR's was just a clean ACL tear, it's possible this happens with him as well. I wanted Meredith back, I made that clear. However, I don't blame us for not wanting two of those guys around to depend on as our starting WR's. If you're going to choose one, I also understand taking the guy whose a bit more proven. Where as we were still waiting for Meredith to really break out.

I would think it would be very difficult to run with something like that in your foot......But I still tend to think the teams examine a players dr report before they sign him.......its kinda like driving a car before you buy it.
If Cam`s knee was bad enough for us not to sign him,then as you stated,so would be AR`s............

I believe both are fine and good to go.

 

[richig07]

I would think it would be very difficult to run with something like that in your foot......But I still tend to think the teams examine a players dr report before they sign him.......its kinda like driving a car before you buy it.
If Cam`s knee was bad enough for us not to sign him,then as you stated,so would be AR`s............

I believe both are fine and good to go.

History says most will not make it back to 100%. That's just how it is...

Not to mention, there is zero way of knowing how they will look at game speed. So it's a moot point to bring up the doctor's. My sister is an orthopedic surgeon, so this is right up her alley. I've asked her about this stuff plenty of times. All she can do is tell you that it's safe to go 100% with your knee. She can clear you. That's it. She cannot tell whether or not somebody will perform as well as they did prior. Everyone's body reacts differently. They have no idea until you begin playing again.

Also, tearing your MCL on top of your ACL is a much worse injury and really makes the reconstruction job much more difficult. AR DOES stand a better chance of being the same again.

 

[BsGenius]

@ BS

I'm not freaking out over Meridith or freaking out at all. Meridith is one in a long line of silly mistakes. I don't expect more then 6 wins this year with or without Meridith. We still have very little talent overall and a very young team learning a new complicated system with a rookie HC. I like the overall direction of this team but don't believe we will get out of the NFCN basement this year. We are a building team heading in the right direction but still a year min away from a WC. We are nowhere close in talent to Phi or the Rams and won't break out like either of them did last year. If you wanna pretend Pace is not making mistakes then go for it. You wanna pretend losing players with no replacements in sight helps us then go for it. You wanna pretend other teams aren't happy to snag our old players then go ahead. But don't pretend I'm freaking out because last place in our div was gonna happen either way IMO.

That's fair.

However
* Every GM makes mistakes.
* You don't know if letting those players go is a mistake yet.
* No one is saying we are close to Philly

I was going to say i'll take that bet of 6 wins but the biggest question mark to me right now is Matt Nagy as HC. We'll have a much much clearer picture 8 games into this season.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

That's fair.

However
* Every GM makes mistakes.
* You don't know if letting those players go is a mistake yet.
* No one is saying we are close to Philly

I was going to say i'll take that bet of 6 wins but the biggest question mark to me right now is Matt Nagy as HC. We'll have a much much clearer picture 8 games into this season.

It will take 8 games to get on the same page with this new offense, we should see drastic improvement in the second half of this season. Giving us tingles to start next offseason. The reason I set it at 6 is our Div is tough. Det now has a coach and run game, MN I don't have to tell you is very good right now, GB has AR.