Award Season

[obxyankeefan]

AL MVP

V Martinez
M Brantley
J Altuve
M Trout
M Cabrera Tigers
J Bautista
A Pujols
J Abreu
N Cruz
I Kinsler

NL MVP

A McCuthcen
A Rendon
G Stanton
A Gonzalez
H Pence
J Lucroy
F Freeman
B Posey
D Span
A Rizzo

AL CY

F Hernandez
C Kluber
D Price
M Scherzer
J Lester
C Sale
J Shields
S Gray
G Richards
C Tillman

NL CY

C Kershaw
J Cueto
A Wainwright
M Bumgarner
S Strasburg
Z Grienke
J Teheran
J Zimmerman
C Hamels
L Lynn

ROYs

J Abreu
J DeGrom

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

NL ROY -- Jake deGrom (P) - NY Mets
AL ROY -- Jose Abreu (1B) - Chi. White Sox

NL MOY -- Don Mattingly -- LA Dodgers
AL MOY -- Buck Showalter -- Balt. Orioles

 

[mr.hockey4242]

AL MVP

V Martinez
M Brantley
J Altuve
M Trout
M Cabrera Tigers
J Bautista
A Pujols
J Abreu
N Cruz
I Kinsler

NL MVP

A McCuthcen
A Rendon
G Stanton
A Gonzalez
H Pence
J Lucroy
F Freeman
B Posey
D Span
A Rizzo

AL CY

F Hernandez
C Kluber
D Price
M Scherzer
J Lester
C Sale
J Shields
S Gray
G Richards
C Tillman

NL CY

C Kershaw(not on MVP?)
J Cueto
A Wainwright
M Bumgarner
S Strasburg
Z Grienke
J Teheran
J Zimmerman
C Hamels
L Lynn

ROYs

J Abreu
J DeGrom

Were you under the influence when determining those two?

I mean Freeman? Span? Rizzo? Over Kershaw?

 

[obxyankeefan]

Were you under the influence when determining those two?

I mean Freeman? Span? Rizzo? Over Kershaw?

I don't think pitchers should be on the MVP ballot.

 

[navamind]

Even ignoring the fallacy of the "not voting for pitchers" thing, Span? Really? I think he's one of the most underrated players in baseball, but come on. I can understand not giving it to Kershaw because of innings, but even some of the top MVP candidates (Stanton, Cutch, Rizzo, Martin, etc.) missed some time.

There aren't really any standout position players in the NL this year either.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

I don't think pitchers should be on the MVP ballot.

pitchers have the CY.....everyday position players have the MVP.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

pitchers have the CY.....everyday position players have the MVP.

No one said that when Verlander won it though, Kershaw deserves it.

 

[msgkings322]

No one said that when Verlander won it though, Kershaw deserves it.

A ton of people said exactly that when Verlander won it. I think this year Kershaw probably deserves it, even though I generally also disapprove of pitchers getting it. But there aren't any real standout names in the NL this year...

 

[navamind]

No one said that when Verlander won it though, Kershaw deserves it.

There were plenty of people saying that Verlander shouldn't have won simply because he was a pitcher. Not sure if I would have voted for him (Bautista, Ellsbury, Miggy and even Pedroia had good cases too), but I have no problem with him winning it. Greinke had a good case in 2009, that was just a ridiculous year.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

A ton of people said exactly that when Verlander won it. I think this year Kershaw probably deserves it, even though I generally also disapprove of pitchers getting it. But there aren't any real standout names in the NL this year...

I meant that it didn't keep him from winning, it's my mistake though, I have a tendency to be too general.

I just want a little consistency, I wouldn't be too happy with Stanton winning when Kemp was denied despite being 1 SB off of a 40-40 year. McCutchen actually has better numbers this year than last year, but if you take the no hitter and the division clincher against the Giants into account, Kershaw makes a pretty great case.

 

[calsnowskier]

I meant that it didn't keep him from winning, it's my mistake though, I have a tendency to be too general.

I just want a little consistency, I wouldn't be too happy with Stanton winning when Kemp was denied despite being 1 SB off of a 40-40 year. McCutchen actually has better numbers this year than last year, but if you take the no hitter and the division clincher against the Giants into account, Kershaw makes a pretty great case.

You also need to remember that these are the posters ballot of who they would vote for. Not who they think will win. I had McCutchen winning the award, but I fully expect 'shaw to win the award.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

You also need to remember that these are the posters ballot of who they would vote for. Not who they think will win. I had McCutchen winning the award, but I fully expect 'shaw to win the award.

True. I do believe pitchers can win the MVP though precisely because of the type of season Kershaw is having. He had one of the greatest games in MLB history for a pitcher, one of the best stretches in history with 41 consecutive scoreless innings, only Brandon Webb and Orel Hershiser had better, and he was 2nd in franchise history with a .875 win percentage. He won 21 games despite missing some time due to injury, and clinched the division against the wild card winning Giants. He was certainly the most valuable to the Dodgers, and in my opinion, the MVP.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Even ignoring the fallacy of the "not voting for pitchers" thing, Span? Really? I think he's one of the most underrated players in baseball, but come on. I can understand not giving it to Kershaw because of innings, but even some of the top MVP candidates (Stanton, Cutch, Rizzo, Martin, etc.) missed some time.

There aren't really any standout position players in the NL this year either.

I don't have the overall stats in front of me right now, so bare with me. I do agree with you that nobody had a stand out season in the NL. That helps Span's case, because you have a group of players that had a good but not great season you could put in the bottom five of your ballot. The two key stats in favor of Span for me were being over 30 SBs and leading the NL in hits.

 

[obxyankeefan]

I don't have the overall stats in front of me right now, so bare with me. I do agree with you that nobody had a stand out season in the NL. That helps Span's case, because you have a group of players that had a good but not great season you could put in the bottom five of your ballot. The two key stats in favor of Span for me were being over 30 SBs and leading the NL in hits.

Let me add that that is not all I looked at, but those two were the stats that I felt helped Span's case.

 

[navamind]

I don't have the overall stats in front of me right now, so bare with me. I do agree with you that nobody had a stand out season in the NL. That helps Span's case, because you have a group of players that had a good but not great season you could put in the bottom five of your ballot. The two key stats in favor of Span for me were being over 30 SBs and leading the NL in hits.

Lofl. There's not a single player on my ballot with worse offensive stats (there's more to hitting than BA), and most of those players also play more demanding positions. Posey and Martin are catchers (not only that, but Martin is considered one of the best defensive catchers and pitch framers in the league). Kyle Seager plays in one of the most difficult ballparks to hit in, and put up a 127 OPS+ while playing good defense at the hot corner. Puig's a left fielder, but his offensive stats aren't even comparable to Span's (Puig was 4th in the NL in OPS+ this year).

 

[obxyankeefan]

Puig had 32 More RBIs than Span, while batting 2nd or 3rd most of the season to Span's leadoff spot. Puig had a BB/K of 67/124, while Span's was 50/65 in one less game. in the rate stats Puig's numbers are better leading to his higher OPS+ Puig 296/382/480, Span 302/355/416.

As I said in the other post, I do look at a lot of different stats. But the two that stood out to me with Span were leading the NL in hits and being top 5 in SBs.



Yes I know it is an unpopular view, but I still prefer most old school stats to Sabrmatrics when looking at a single season.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Puig had 32 More RBIs than Span, while batting 2nd or 3rd most of the season to Span's leadoff spot. Puig had a BB/K of 67/124, while Span's was 50/65 in one less game. in the rate stats Puig's numbers are better leading to his higher OPS+ Puig 296/382/480, Span 302/355/416.

As I said in the other post, I do look at a lot of different stats. But the two that stood out to me with Span were leading the NL in hits and being top 5 in SBs.



Yes I know it is an unpopular view, but I still prefer most old school stats to Sabrmatrics when looking at a single season.

But with the stolen bases, a guy like Span needs to steal bases to add value if he's got very little power and doesn't get on base as much. Span had about 20% less extra base hits in about 10% more at bats than Puig, so if Span were able to turn some of those singles into extra base hits and as a result stole less, he wouldn't have been adding any less value.

In other words, if Span turned 10 of his singles into HR and as a result stole 10 less bases, he wouldn't be top 10 in steals, but he certainly would've had a better season than actually did...

 

[obxyankeefan]

But with the stolen bases, a guy like Span needs to steal bases to add value if he's got very little power and doesn't get on base as much. Span had about 20% less extra base hits in about 10% more at bats than Puig, so if Span were able to turn some of those singles into extra base hits and as a result stole less, he wouldn't have been adding any less value.

In other words, if Span turned 10 of his singles into HR and as a result stole 10 less bases, he wouldn't be top 10 in steals, but he certainly would've had a better season than actually did...

Interesting way of looking at it.

 

[navamind]

Puig had 32 More RBIs than Span, while batting 2nd or 3rd most of the season to Span's leadoff spot. Puig had a BB/K of 67/124, while Span's was 50/65 in one less game. in the rate stats Puig's numbers are better leading to his higher OPS+ Puig 296/382/480, Span 302/355/416.

As I said in the other post, I do look at a lot of different stats. But the two that stood out to me with Span were leading the NL in hits and being top 5 in SBs.



Yes I know it is an unpopular view, but I still prefer most old school stats to Sabrmatrics when looking at a single season.

27 points in OBP and 64 points in SLG% are big advantages, especially considering Puig plays in a ballpark less favorable to hitters. Span strikes out a lot less, but that means little in looking at their overall offensive stats (it's more useful in looking at future performance). Not only does Puig walk more, but he also draws more HBPs. Hence, a significantly higher OBP. As Stan said, Span needs to steal bases to make up for his lack of power.

It's fine if you prefer traditional stats, they still have value IMO. But you need to put them in context. Hit totals, though? Come on. Hits are a function of playing time and putting the ball in play a lot.

 

[navamind]

Span averages more WAR per 162 games than Jim "TEH FEAR" Rice.