ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND BEVELL NOW????

[ElTexan]

Given that you see yourself as such an intellect, I need to ask you,,,,do you feel Lynch would have scored if given the ball twice from the 1 yrd line? I and most others do.

Again, if you are calling for a coach to give up an opportunity to use all his downs, you are an extreme type of stupid. I mean, really. That line of thought is indefensible. That is beyond even Aggie dumb. No way in the world would I or any sane person choose a course that would leave one out of three opportunities unused. That's insane levels of dumb.

 

[ElTexan]

And what you lot keep forgetting is that Carroll WAS going to run Lynch twice: on 3rd and 4th. He just wasn't going to be so stupid as to let another opportunity to score be left unused. God, do you ppl get it?!?!

 

[BHF]

I keep hearing about Avril, but am stumped on that. What had he done up to that point in the 3rd quarter when he went out? I remember him being pretty much absent until he got hurt. I told my buddy that Bennett was the only person doing anything on the D-Line. Lane is better then Simon for sure, but he probably gets scorched too for at least that TD. I don't see those 2 guys costing the Seahawks the game.

didn't cost them the game, but with Avril out of the game you can block Obie one on one. Bennett was still a beast, but when you can throw two and three guys at him, he slows down.

 

[WizardHawk]

1. A defensive coach who micromanages the offense is nothing short of a dumbfuck.
2. This shows a clear lack of understanding of the play. Wilson has no time to read anybody but Lockette. Sure, eh should have put it lower, if it was physically possible. But it wasn't.
3. Well...yeah.
4. Sure. But in no way, shape, or form should a WR with his (lack of) skills be put in a do or die situation. Frigging stupid. You call that route for Baldwin or (maybe) Kearse. That is all on Bevell.
5. Umm..sure? I guess. Browner beat him on that play. It happens.
6. Really? No Lane. No Avril. Against a first ballot HOF QB and possible GOAT at his position? They gave up four scoring drives, but also forced two turnovers. Not a terrible day at all.

And are you going to argue to say that you spent the day researching every red zone pass attempt for the season? LOL. Okay.

I have no idea what your rant is about. Never said I spent any time doing any research. What kind of dumb ass shit is that?

As for defensive coach... HE'S THE FUCKING HEAD COACH. Do you NOT get that?

Would it have been belichecks fault for not calling TO's if that pass went off? Or the DC? How about the play call? That on his DC?

Do you not get it's the HC's job to manage those situations? What do you think he does, just sits on his thumbs and says do whatever you want Bevell? You really have a lot to learn about football. I mean really.

Wow. You can't understand basic parallels, huh? Explains a few things.

You can't understand the difference between saying something is a bad play based on what you know now, vs what was known at the time the decision was made. Explains a few things.

Emmitt Smith said it was the worst play call he has ever seen in the HISTORY of football, but I'm sure you think Kurt Warner is more qualified.

Listened to Kevin Harlan tonight and he said he has spoken to a lot of insiders around the league and most were more or less saying what Warner did. He characterized the ones that were calling it the worst ever as mostly people who have shows and don't know anything about the game. And he's a packers fan so it's not like he cares about Bevell one way or the other.

History will not be on your side if you stick to this. I guarantee you. Will it be called the worst play ever? Sure, because 90% of the people who will be saying it won't bother or care to take any time to know what the actual circumstances were. That's how these things go. If you want to keep your head buried in the sand, then by all means do so. I was asked if anyone will still stand up for Bevell and I raised my hand. If you don't like it you are free to go fuck yourself fully.

Given that you see yourself as such an intellect, I need to ask you,,,,do you feel Lynch would have scored if given the ball twice from the 1 yrd line? I and most others do.

You did get the memo he was 1 for 5 in goal line plays this season right?

I don't care, I'd have ran it anyway, but to assume it was a done deal is just fucking dumb. Seahawks got stuffed a lot on goal line plays over the season. Not just the Lynch plays.

I keep hearing about Avril, but am stumped on that. What had he done up to that point in the 3rd quarter when he went out? I remember him being pretty much absent until he got hurt. I told my buddy that Bennett was the only person doing anything on the D-Line. Lane is better then Simon for sure, but he probably gets scorched too for at least that TD. I don't see those 2 guys costing the Seahawks the game.

This tells me all I need to know about you. I'm basically talking to a brick wall.

Lane had an incredible pass break up and a pick before going out. If you recall a few weeks back when Simon was playing before Lane came back other teams were picking on him as well. Lane came back and that didn't happen. He was VERY much missed out there. Simon isn't anything close to ready for that spotlight.

You do know how a pass rush works right? If you aren't crashing on both sides you have an alley to escape. For all those times Bennett gets a sack it's not generally going to happen without pressure on the other side as well. The proof was in the results. Before Avril went down the defense held NE to 14 points over 3 full quarters. Cliff goes out and they score on two straight drives and aren't barely challenged in the pass rush. He had all day back there.

Son, you really have a lot to learn about football. Have your opinions about Bevell, but i'd really avoid jumping on people about things you have no clue about. It's just not helping you.

 

[tzorn10]

You still using "appeal to authority" arguments instead of responding to the clearly articulated and even numerated logic shown to you.

You are really special.

Your one of 2 people that agrees with the call around here and I'm the special one. Priceless.

 

[tzorn10]

Again, if you are calling for a coach to give up an opportunity to use all his downs, you are an extreme type of stupid. I mean, really. That line of thought is indefensible. That is beyond even Aggie dumb. No way in the world would I or any sane person choose a course that would leave one out of three opportunities unused. That's insane levels of dumb.

So your not going to answer the question then?

 

[ElTexan]

So your not going to answer the question then?

I have answered it. I give the ball to Lynch on 3rd and 4th. That's TWICE. Can you count??

That is also what Carroll chose to do.

Some people, mistakenly, also want to give it TWICE to Lynch on 2nd and 4th... which is worse than my and Carroll's choice because it tells the D that you HAVE TO THROW on 3rd.

And then there is the ULTIMATELY stupid option of giving it to him ALSO TWICE on 2nd and 3rd and not even running a 4th. That is YOUR option.

!!!!!ALL OPTIONS RUN LYNCH TWICE!!!!!!

LET THAT SEEP INTO YOUR TINY ILLOGICAL HEAD.

 

[WizardHawk]

Your one of 2 people that agrees with the call around here and I'm the special one. Priceless.

Stop being stupid. I don't agree with the call and have said as much. I've now said it at least 20 times and that's not an exaggeration. I have simply said it wasn't nearly as bad of a call as you people want to make it into, and blame Carroll for signing off on it. That's it. For the 100000 time I'd have ran it and don't care if they left a lot of time or only had two tries. I have a feeling you would still be sitting here bitching about Bevell if they had ran it twice and not got in. Would have said it was bad play calling. Not creative. Didn't even try a quick pass. Gave up downs with bad clock management. Don't even try telling me otherwise because I know full well ALL of you would be doing just that. It's what you always do after losses.

 

[ElTexan]

Stop being stupid. I don't agree with the call and have said as much. I've now said it at least 20 times and that's not an exaggeration. I have simply said it wasn't nearly as bad of a call as you people want to make it into, and blame Carroll for signing off on it. That's it. For the 100000 time I'd have ran it and don't care if they left a lot of time or only had two tries. I have a feeling you would still be sitting here bitching about Bevell if they had ran it twice and not got in. Would have said it was bad play calling. Not creative. Didn't even try a quick pass. Gave up downs with bad clock management. Don't even try telling me otherwise because I know full well ALL of you would be doing just that. It's what you always do after losses.

No, he has multiple times explicitly called to do just that. He is actually THAT dumb: calling to leave a Down unplayed. laughable.

 

[WizardHawk]

I have answered it. I give the ball to Lynch on 3rd and 4th. That's TWICE. Can you count??

That is also what Carroll chose to do.

Some people, mistakenly, also want to give it TWICE to Lynch on 2nd and 4th... which is worse than my and Carroll's choice because it tells the D that you HAVE TO THROW on 3rd.

And then there is the ULTIMATELY stupid option of giving it to him ALSO TWICE on 2nd and 3rd and not even running a 4th. That is YOUR option.

!!!!!ALL OPTIONS RUN LYNCH TWICE!!!!!!

LET THAT SEEP INTO YOUR TINY ILLOGICAL HEAD.

But running it twice instead of a pass and then two runs also entirely removes the risk of an interception.

This is a running team that got where it is by playing sound defense and running the ball. They lost the game on weak defense and throwing on the 1y line. You are who you are so live that way.

Still, going with your option (or what the team actually did) isn't that bad of an option. I wouldn't have done it, but it's like 55-45 in mind. In their mind it is 99-1 in favor of running it.

 

[WizardHawk]

No, he has multiple times explicitly called to do just that. He is actually THAT dumb: calling to leave a Down unplayed. laughable.

Calm down man. This is the hawks board and he might be calling you names or otherwise being a jackass, but you need to watch giving it back. Stick to the facts and the topic. Don't let yourself get sucked into a pissing match and end up kicked off the board. Your opinions are valid, don't let the message get lost in the delivery.

 

[ElTexan]

But running it twice instead of a pass and then two runs also entirely removes the risk of an interception.

.

Yeah, it takes out the 1.1% chance of an INT vs. NOT PLAYING ONE OF THREE DOWNS YOU HAVE LEFT. It's not even an argument. Not even something to waste breath on.

And BTW, it adds the 1.1% chance of a fumble.

It's seriously not an argument to waste breath on.

 

[ElTexan]

Calm down man. This is the hawks board and he might be calling you names or otherwise being a jackass, but you need to watch giving it back. Stick to the facts and the topic. Don't let yourself get sucked into a pissing match and end up kicked off the board. Your opinions are valid, don't let the message get lost in the delivery.

How many times can I copy/paste the exact COLD LOGIC to this guy and have him just rant and call names? It's getting to pathetic levels.

All options have LYNCH running two times, which is what HE HIMSELF is calling for... but throwing on 2nd is the best way to use all Downs and keep D guessing.

It's COLD HARD LOGIC.

 

[BHF]

I have no idea what your rant is about. Never said I spent any time doing any research. What kind of dumb ass shit is that?

So...then you did crib from other websites. That wasn't so hard. Funny you should accuse someone of ranting when you then post:

As for defensive coach... HE'S THE FUCKING HEAD COACH. Do you NOT get that?

Ahem. Before I respond to that, I'd like to point out that one of us has been constantly pitching a fit. And it isn't me. But moving on. Being a good manager is knowing what your strengths are, and trusting those under you to know how to their jobs. You simply aren't going to know how to do every subordinates job better than they do. At least not if you are hiring the right people. I'm the General Manager of an Irish pub and restaurant. If my chef comes to me and says "BHF, tuna is dirt cheap. I think we should get some in. I can run some specials and we can clean up." I'm going to look at the price of tuna, do a quick cost analysis, and (assuming everything checks out), give him the thumbs up. I'm NOT going to tell him how he should cook it. Why? Because I came up in the front of house. I understand bar tending. I understand serving. I understand customer service. I know the basics of the kitchen, but not the finer points. If I'm back there grilling tuna for 30 we are going to sending out hockey pucks. So I've got someone who knows that shit inside and out. Similarly, Pete was a DB coach and a DC. He played FS in college. Sure. He was an OC. He knows that end inside and out. Sure, he was an OC for a season. At the University of the Pacific. Do you really think that he believes that year taught him everything he know about running an offense better than Bevell?

Would it have been belichecks fault for not calling TO's if that pass went off? Or the DC? How about the play call? That on his DC?

Yeah. I would have been first in line to point fingers at Bill for not giving Brady enough time to score if they had lost. I might even question Patricia a bit on some of those pass defenses (although overall he made some great adjustments on the fly). I certainly have wondered why the hell they weren't ready for Beast on that wheel route to start our last drive. They had to know we would dust if off sooner or later.

Do you not get it's the HC's job to manage those situations? What do you think he does, just sits on his thumbs and says do whatever you want Bevell? You really have a lot to learn about football. I mean really.

Yeah...there is no sitting on thumbs. "Pete, I'm calling a pass, they are in goalline." Pete now decides if that's good or bad. He said "Good." If you really think the conversation went "Pete, they are goalline I'm calling (insert entire playcall here)" you have even more to understand about football. There is exactly 40 seconds from the spot of the ball to evaluate the situation and the opposing defensive package, pick a play, communicate that to your QB, and have the huddle the offense, get them to the line, and snap the ball. With one timeout left there isn't time for debate. Now, if you want to say Carroll is/was an idiot for trusting Bevell's judgement...well...that's another debate that we already have a thread for.

You can't understand the difference between saying something is a bad play based on what you know now, vs what was known at the time the decision was made. Explains a few things.

You can't understand the similarity between you saying "I feel better about my argument because Warner said 'x', which I've been saying since the night of the game.", and me saying "I feel better about my argument since Butler said 'y', which I've been saying since the night of the game."?

Huh. Interesting.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yeah, it takes out the 1.1% chance of an INT vs. NOT PLAYING ONE OF THREE DOWNS YOU HAVE LEFT. It's not even an argument. Not even something to waste breath on.

Look, given that they ran a pass play and it ended their season it's very hard not to say they should have ran the ball. It's the easy low lying fruit. There is no guarantee they win with 2 or 3 runs either, but this is what this team is about and to end it that way will leave this controversy going for decades to come.

And as has been pointed out, it wasn't 26 seconds left. Lynch ran for 4 yards on first down and the clock kept running. Seattle let it run nearly out before getting the play off. More than 30 seconds. If they wanted to just pound it in they could have easily put a power group out there and just hit it fast. Would have left more than enough time to get two more plays in. This isn't entirely an either or scenario.

What they said happened was they ran the clock down on purpose, but intended to run it. They sent out 11 personnel and had wanted to run out of it, but saw that the Pats went goal line 3 DB set and switched it to a pass. So they were going to go run play first on 2nd down and only didn't because of what defense they put out.

 

[ElTexan]

Look, given that they ran a pass play and it ended their season it's very hard not to say they should have ran the ball..

Nope. It's only hard for a simpleton who wants to react out of anger and not see what is plain as day good logic.

Carroll made the right choice throwing on 2nd...

And as you point out... Even if you want to go with gut over logic [which is not smart], it's still definitely not THE WORST CALL OF ALL TIMES!!!!

 

[tzorn10]

Listened to Kevin Harlan tonight and he said he has spoken to a lot of insiders around the league and most were more or less saying what Warner did. He characterized the ones that were calling it the worst ever as mostly people who have shows and don't know anything about the game. And he's a packers fan so it's not like he cares about Bevell one way or the other.

Your probably right, I doubt Emmitt Smith knows anything about the game.

History will not be on your side if you stick to this. I guarantee you. Will it be called the worst play ever? Sure, because 90% of the people who will be saying it won't bother or care to take any time to know what the actual circumstances were. That's how these things go. If you want to keep your head buried in the sand, then by all means do so. I was asked if anyone will still stand up for Bevell and I raised my hand. If you don't like it you are free to go fuck yourself fully.

History will be on my side. As much as it pains me, I have to agree with Stephen A. Smith when he said that Pete Carrolls legacy will be remembered by that play call. He's right.

Your saying history wont be on my side and then your saying it will be called the worst play ever.

As for standing up for Bevell, I guess somebody has to and your his posterboy. I'm sure he appreciates it. The rest of us Seahawk fans will celebrate the day he's gone.

You did get the memo he was 1 for 5 in goal line plays this season right?

Here's a memo for you, the Patriots defense was ranked 28th in short yardage stands. Also, who were the teams that Lynch had his goal line stands against? I'm betting it was mostly against NFCW teams.

I would gladly take my chances with Lynch against a reeling defense that ranked 28th in the league on short yardage runs. 2 fucking chances even. I suppose they could have just passed the ball. Oh,,,,,,

I don't care, I'd have ran it anyway

Then why are you fucking arguing?

This tells me all I need to know about you. I'm basically talking to a brick wall.

Why because Avril was ineffective during his time in the game? If the Patriots started running the ball down our throats, then you might have a point.

Lane had an incredible pass break up and a pick before going out. If you recall a few weeks back when Simon was playing before Lane came back other teams were picking on him as well. Lane came back and that didn't happen. He was VERY much missed out there. Simon isn't anything close to ready for that spotlight.

Lane had a nice interception while playing centerfield. I still don't know where Brady was throwing the ball. Simon looked like shit a few weeks back and I cant and wont deny that, but besides the TD he gave up, I thought he did alright. Sure Brady picked on him for the small stuff, but he tested him deep a couple times too and Simon did his job. You cant pin anything on him. He played just about as well as could be hoped for.

You do know how a pass rush works right? If you aren't crashing on both sides you have an alley to escape. For all those times Bennett gets a sack it's not generally going to happen without pressure on the other side as well. The proof was in the results. Before Avril went down the defense held NE to 14 points over 3 full quarters. Cliff goes out and they score on two straight drives and aren't barely challenged in the pass rush. He had all day back there.

Brady had all day most of the game to be honest. I don't remember Avril even getting close to him when he was in there. I cant believe your blaming the game on Avril and Lanes absence. How about all the 3 and outs from the offense. Come on man.

Son, you really have a lot to learn about football. Have your opinions about Bevell, but i'd really avoid jumping on people about things you have no clue about. It's just not helping you.

You are sad. You are the only person in the entire world that is blaming the loss on Cliff fucking Avril and Jeremy Lane missing some game time. Good lord, your so full of yourself that you don't even realize what kind of an asshole your coming off as.


To summarize the entire thread, every headline reads the same - Pete Carroll botched the Super Bowl. Bevell called the play, Carroll agreed to it, the Seahawks lost the Super Bowl because of it. Even Carroll apologized. Just accept it for what it is.

 

[ElTexan]

They sent out 11 personnel and had wanted to run out of it, but saw that the Pats went goal line 3 DB set and switched it to a pass. So they were going to go run play first on 2nd down and only didn't because of what defense they put out.

Yeah. We call that smart coaching.

 

[WizardHawk]

So...then you did crib from other websites. That wasn't so hard. Funny you should accuse someone of ranting when you then post:{/quote]
I still have no idea what 'crib' from other websites means. You keep accusing me of it and I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway. You are way off topic.

Your rant about HC job in offensive play calling loop just says you don't know football. Not much more needs to be said. The buck stops with him. Period. Bevell does call the plays and Pete is on the set and clears or can stop it any time. If you don't get that, then there is no point in continuing this with you as you aren't capable of understanding the sport at that level.

Interesting. You would have blamed BB for how he managed the end of that game, but PC is entirely off the hook.

You can't understand the similarity between you saying "I feel better about my argument because Warner said 'x', which I've been saying since the night of the game.", and me saying "I feel better about my argument since Butler said 'y', which I've been saying since the night of the game."?

Huh. Interesting.

You still can't get that your argument assumes facts only known A F T E R the time the decision had to be made. Do you not get that? AFTER. I said I felt vindicated that others with a lot more understanding of football than any of us has come out and said pretty much the same thing I had already been saying, which was based on the decision they made BEFORE they knew the outcome. God man. Wake the hell up.

 

[ElTexan]

To summarize the entire thread, every headline reads the same - Pete Carroll botched the Super Bowl. Bevell called the play, Carroll agreed to it, the Seahawks lost the Super Bowl because of it. Even Carroll apologized. Just accept it for what it is.

1. Carroll immediately backed up his call with cold logic [about an hour after i wrote the same thing] in his empty locker interview. That's not an apology

2. Once again, your "appeal to authority" fallacy of relying on "headlines" and "commentators" is truly truly weak. It is Logic 101 logical fallacy weak.