ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND BEVELL NOW????

[tzorn10]

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Argument from authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should copy and paste this along with your spam page and send it to all of the editors of the publications I listed and explain to them how everybody is wrong except you.

 

[WizardHawk]

Oh, I get it. I'm just point out the total hypocrisy in it coming from a guy came in here swinging, insulting, and accusing the forum of things they weren't doing.

Seriously. I'm done with you and the other idiot. Neither of you have a brain cell to rub together. And I mean that. Not trolling at all.

You can cuss or name call because you are a hawks fan. I can be an ass for the same reason. I told a non seahawk fan that they may not do so up here even if they are called names (by zorn) first.

And you just don't get it.

Tell me where the hypocrisy is exactly? Oh wait. I have no need to read your stupidity anymore.

 

[WizardHawk]

I love that one of you now is posting links talking about Pete's mistakes. Didn't go check them out, but I'm assuming based on the titles that ALL of them are blaming CARROLL and not bevell. Thanks for making my points for me.

You two are something else.

 

[tzorn10]

I love that one of you now is posting links talking about Pete's mistakes. Didn't go check them out, but I'm assuming based on the titles that ALL of them are blaming CARROLL and not bevell. Thanks for making my points for me.

You two are something else.

Bevell was to busy blaming Lockette

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Seriously. I'm done with you and the other idiot. Neither of you have a brain cell to rub together. And I mean that. Not trolling at all.

You can cuss or name call because you are a hawks fan. I can be an ass for the same reason. I told a non seahawk fan that they may not do so up here even if they are called names (by zorn) first.

And you just don't get it.

Tell me where the hypocrisy is exactly? Oh wait. I have no need to read your stupidity anymore.

Wiz,
I'm sure before you ever posted, you knew it would be a exercise in futility. Best just to let some time go by and folks well realize going to back to back SBs is pretty special in it self. Truth be told the ending was just such a gut punch, that some will never get over it.
Just watched the game again, saw lots of great plays all game long, the ending was horrible of course and watching Lynch run....damn I wish they had just handed him the ball there, looks like he was feeling it. Should of, would of, could of....you know what? Watch out for the Seahawks next year, they are going to be good!

 

[WizardHawk]

Look, I agree they should have ran the ball. I agree there were coaching blunders. Where most of you differ is on who to blame. Some want it ALL on bevell to the point where you expect him to be fired. I wouldn't fire him at all. Ever since Harvin left I've liked the balance of the offense and I don't think the calls have been bad on the whole all of the stretch run.

There are lots of people you can blame for how that game ended. Or at least I can.

Accept that or don't. There is nothing to be gained in going round and round over it any longer.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Look, I agree they should have ran the ball. I agree there were coaching blunders. Where most of you differ is on who to blame. Some want it ALL on bevell to the point where you expect him to be fired. I wouldn't fire him at all. Ever since Harvin left I've liked the balance of the offense and I don't think the calls have been bad on the whole all of the stretch run.

There are lots of people you can blame for how that game ended. Or at least I can.

Accept that or don't. There is nothing to be gained in going round and round over it any longer.

I agree about Bevell. After watching the game again, I start to appreciate him a bit more, because they were some great plays called during the game. The ending was just such gut punch. I think Pete was sure Belichick would call a time out and was playing a bit of chicken right at the end and it back fired.
You know if Wilson had just fake pump there, it would of been a flag I think...oh hell here I go with the could of , should of BS again. You know that's the problem, we all keep replaying it in our minds, with the Seahawks do something slightly different, that would of made all the difference.

 

[ElTexan]

I agree about Bevell. After watching the game again, I start to appreciate him a bit more, because they were some great plays called during the game. The ending was just such gut punch. I think Pete was sure Belichick would call a time out and was playing a bit of chicken right at the end and it back fired.
You know if Wilson had just fake pump there, it would of been a flag I think...oh hell here I go with the could of , should of BS again. You know that's the problem, we all keep replaying it in our minds, with the Seahawks do something slightly different, that would of made all the difference.

Then it would be half the distance to the goal, 2nd down, still one time out, 20 seconds on the clock, and it still makes sense to throw on 2nd down.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

Here's why this was a horrendous play call:
1) Lynch was tearing up their defense in the 2nd half, punching holes when the line couldn't create any. Their D was tired. 2 or 3 shots there is about a 99% chance he eventually gets it.
2) If you must throw a slant, Lockette is the last receiver you use on that play. He is a special teamer, our worst receiver in a corps of terrible receivers, you use literally anyone else.
3) Kearse's job was to pick the corner, but he had to get through Browner with little room to maneuver. He gets jammed infinity times out of infinity.
4) They gave a shotgun look, a dead giveaway that it's gonna be a pass. There was no misdirection or wrinkle, it was a straight up look that they gave a few times prior this year. So the D was not fooled whatsoever.
5) You should never give a shotgun look with this offense for any reason. Not when you have Lynch. Not when you have a read option QB. Not when you have a solid backup RB. Every pass play should be out of play action or a bootleg, no exceptions.

I'm not against passing but I think out of a million billion possible permutations, Bevell literally somehow called the one play that made no sense. Even then it might have worked had he used anybody but Lockette. LOCKETTE!!!!

Bevell was a disaster of an OC in Minnesota, a derivative of the utterly incompetent Childress regime. It baffles me how we gobble up that team's refuse thinking we got caviar.

His refusal to employ read option during the game, his overuse of empty sets and shotgun formations, his refusal to run the ball there in the 4th quarter by themselves warrant termination.

Originally it wasn't even his idea to bring read option into the offense, it was Wilson's. A rookie thought of it before an offensive coordinator paid millions to keep abreast of every new play.

Carroll shoulders a lot of the blame for going through with the playcall and for the horrendous clock management there at the end. But I'm willing to forgive him because he put this championship team together.

However, I'm not willing to forgive Bevell, who has been nothing but a dead weight on this franchise from the start. He is hands down the worst OC in football, someone we have won in spite of until last Sunday. He is also a complete jerk for shifting blame onto Lockette. I said it the day he was hired, he MUST GO.

 

[tzorn10]

I agree

 

[blstoker]

Here's why this was a horrendous play call:
1) Lynch was tearing up their defense in the 2nd half, punching holes when the line couldn't create any. Their D was tired. 2 or 3 shots there is about a 99% chance he eventually gets it.

Marshawn was 12 carries for 57 yards in the second half - but had 29 yards on 2 carries, which made him less than 3 yards per carry the rest of the time. Also, he was 4 for 12 in the 4th, including the 4 yard run to get them to the 1. Marshawn had 2 good runs in the second half, so that's really not tearing up anything.

2) If you must throw a slant, Lockette is the last receiver you use on that play. He is a special teamer, our worst receiver in a corps of terrible receivers, you use literally anyone else.

I'm not against passing but I think out of a million billion possible permutations, Bevell literally somehow called the one play that made no sense. Even then it might have worked had he used anybody but Lockette. LOCKETTE!!!!

This is a valid point, but to be honest there really isn't a #1 go to guy on the roster, so you use what you have. You couldn't use Baldwin or Kearse because they were being blanketted all game by Revis and Browner and just aren't skilled enough to get past that. I would say that I would have thought that Lockette vs. the UDFA rookie CB who had been getting picked on much of the game was a favorable match up, so not sure it was a bad idea to have him be the target on this play.

3) Kearse's job was to pick the corner, but he had to get through Browner with little room to maneuver. He gets jammed infinity times out of infinity.

This is probably the best thing you said in the whole post, and I actually agree with this. The one thing Browner is good at is jamming receivers at the line.

4) They gave a shotgun look, a dead giveaway that it's gonna be a pass. There was no misdirection or wrinkle, it was a straight up look that they gave a few times prior this year. So the D was not fooled whatsoever.

Yes, they gave a shot gun look, but they run shot gun a lot, and they run out of the gun a lot as well, so shot gun is not a give away in this offense as being a pass.

5) You should never give a shotgun look with this offense for any reason. Not when you have Lynch. Not when you have a read option QB. Not when you have a solid backup RB. Every pass play should be out of play action or a bootleg, no exceptions.

You do realize that the read option is run out of the shot gun right? You aren't doing the read option in the I formation, and you're definitely not running it against a goal line D with only 5 linemen to block - cause even though you leave one guy unblocked in the read option, in this set up you have at least 3 guys unblocked.

Bevell was a disaster of an OC in Minnesota, a derivative of the utterly incompetent Childress regime. It baffles me how we gobble up that team's refuse thinking we got caviar.

His refusal to employ read option during the game, his overuse of empty sets and shotgun formations, his refusal to run the ball there in the 4th quarter by themselves warrant termination.

Originally it wasn't even his idea to bring read option into the offense, it was Wilson's. A rookie thought of it before an offensive coordinator paid millions to keep abreast of every new play.

Carroll shoulders a lot of the blame for going through with the playcall and for the horrendous clock management there at the end. But I'm willing to forgive him because he put this championship team together.

However, I'm not willing to forgive Bevell, who has been nothing but a dead weight on this franchise from the start. He is hands down the worst OC in football, someone we have won in spite of until last Sunday. He is also a complete jerk for shifting blame onto Lockette. I said it the day he was hired, he MUST GO.

Well, to be fair, Bevell has been the OC for the Seahawks for the three years that had the Seahawks 30 seconds from the NFCCG, Super Bowl Champions and within 1 play of a second championship, so whatever he's doing is working. His offenses have been top 10 (7th, 9th and 6th) in yards per play the last 3 seasons, not bad for a clock managing run first offense.

This has been an offensive driven league for 20 years, and fans have issues when a team purposefully runs an offense that is designed to support the defense. Bevell has taken way too much criticism for a guy who has managed one of the better offenses in the NFL over the last 3 seasons.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

They were keying in on the run and Lynch was getting at least a few yards per carry. We needed just 1 yard. He had great game and I don't know if he ever got stuffed in the backfield once. And please, they didn't even try to use him in the 4th. I'd go back and re-watch but I'm too disgusted too.

You can run the read option from the pistol formation as well. It was a straight up passing shotgun formation. They hadn't even tried the read option all night anyway. Any kind of shotgun look against a goal line defense isn't fooling anybody, hey they might try to run? NO WAY.

In no circumstance should we rest our hopes, dreams, season and Super Bowl in the hands of Ricardo Lockette. That's just silly. A guy that belongs on the practice squad. What has he done to earn that kind of respect? If Kearse has no chance of picking the corner and getting past Browner, why bother with the play? If we gotta pass there why not pass from a play action, bootleg, etc? With play action we got more blocking, we got misdirection, and we got defenders thinking about the run. With bootleg you can always throw it away if you don't like what you see. Heck, do a QB sneak. They can only fit so many defenders in a tight space, and Wilson is a small muscular QB, ideal for a QB sneak. I could go on forever.

The logic that we're so and so with this guy as our coach, with this guy as our QB, etc has never worked. Every team has a weak link, someone that is more bad than good, Bevell is no good. The offense has been a joke during his tenure. We could score a lot more points. He wanted Harvin, we've had historically bad offensive lines. W

 

[GoToHellBevell]

(cont'd)

We've had offensive lines that are the worst pass blockers int he league and mediocre at best run blockers (thanks to Lynch and the read option this gets hidden). We've had mostly atrocious receivers. We've had penalty fests. Don't tell me the D hasn't completely carried this team. Any time we need the offense to score more than a few points we are totally screwed. Empty sets should never be used, nor should we be running bubble screens 50x per game, nor should we be switching to the passing game when Lynch has been having a great game, etc etc. His waiting until we needed divine help against the Packers before he started running Wilson, which he Packers had NO ANSWER FOR!!! And what gives, why did we wait until the Super Bowl to even give Matthews a shot? He is an awful coordinator.

 

[BHF]

Heh...holy hyperbole, Batman. Who created the alt? Bevell might have made a dumbass call on Sunday, but he's not Satan.

 

[WizardHawk]

If you are willing to be honest and take a broader look at the last full sequence, there are plenty of places to say the team made blunders.

Kearse makes a huge catch and runs out of bounds to stop the clock at 1:06 (I believe). Your staff dicks around so long they have to burn a precious time out with the clock already stopped! Sorry, this is a HUGE blunder. You run right over the top of them with Lynch for 4 yards. Why not just line up quick and do the same damned play again? No, they burn 40 seconds off the clock and put a 1 RB 1 TE set in and then adjust to a pass play based on the defense. Again BLUNDER. Play starts and Kearse fails at his job of setting the pick. GAME KILLER. Wilson fails to read that and throws the ball anway. BAD MISTAKE. And the throws a leading ball instead of right in his receivers chest. BAD THROW.

But that's not the end of the story. Then you have them at the 1y or inside of it even and they are lining up as if they are taking a knee?!? AND YOU LET THEM FAKE YOU INTO GIVING THEM 5y AND THE GAME. Had that not happened there's either a chance at a safety, a pick 6, or a fumble recovery that ends up winning you the game. Remember they hadn't been able to run that whole game. If you get a safety there you get a free kick with still 20 seconds on the clock and a timeout to get into FG range.

There was a lot of fail to be had in that last minute, and it's not like NE didn't either. Not calling timeouts was odd and they had a bad defensive set at the 5.

Everyone tightened up near the end and there were mistakes all over.

This isn't about one play call or one guy making that call. It just isn't. It is way more on Carroll, especially after they used that TO at 1:06. Blame Bennett for being so fucking stupid to jump off sides on an obvious bluff. I mean NE was going to burn a TO if we didn't do that, unless they were really setting up to give us the free kick anyway in which case a rush was unnecessary.

 

[ElTexan]

I wrote this right after the super bowl and have been pasting it without insult IN SUPPORT OF SEATTLE COACHES, and all I get back is rant, name-calling, etc.
Here it is in cold, clean, logic.

Can anyone counter this substantively?:

26 seconds, 1 time out, 2nd down. There are three options:

A. Run Lynch twice and not even worry about running a play on a 4th down... a 4th down you'll never see because of time. We call this option the DUMB option.

B. Run Lynch on 2nd down, call Time Out, and then the Defense knows that you have to Pass on 3rd.

C. Throw on 2nd which saves Time Out and keeps options open on 3rd [run or pass].



=====================

All options run Lynch twice.
C. is the best option, which is what Carroll did.

Lmao. I tweeted Mike and Mike and Greeny separately. In the first minute of the first hour of yesterday's show he straight up parrots exactly what I said above and the SOB DOESNT GIVE ME CREDIT. What an asshole.

Check the podcast. What an ass.

He literally says "I've come around to this thinkng … to use all the downs and keep the defense guessing."

 

[BHF]

If you are willing to be honest and take a broader look at the last full sequence, there are plenty of places to say the team made blunders.

Kearse makes a huge catch and runs out of bounds to stop the clock at 1:06 (I believe). Your staff dicks around so long they have to burn a precious time out with the clock already stopped! Sorry, this is a HUGE blunder. You run right over the top of them with Lynch for 4 yards. Why not just line up quick and do the same damned play again? No, they burn 40 seconds off the clock and put a 1 RB 1 TE set in and then adjust to a pass play based on the defense. Again BLUNDER. Play starts and Kearse fails at his job of setting the pick. GAME KILLER. Wilson fails to read that and throws the ball anway. BAD MISTAKE. And the throws a leading ball instead of right in his receivers chest. BAD THROW.

But that's not the end of the story. Then you have them at the 1y or inside of it even and they are lining up as if they are taking a knee?!? AND YOU LET THEM FAKE YOU INTO GIVING THEM 5y AND THE GAME. Had that not happened there's either a chance at a safety, a pick 6, or a fumble recovery that ends up winning you the game. Remember they hadn't been able to run that whole game. If you get a safety there you get a free kick with still 20 seconds on the clock and a timeout to get into FG range.

There was a lot of fail to be had in that last minute, and it's not like NE didn't either. Not calling timeouts was odd and they had a bad defensive set at the 5.

Everyone tightened up near the end and there were mistakes all over.

This isn't about one play call or one guy making that call. It just isn't. It is way more on Carroll, especially after they used that TO at 1:06. Blame Bennett for being so fucking stupid to jump off sides on an obvious bluff. I mean NE was going to burn a TO if we didn't do that, unless they were really setting up to give us the free kick anyway in which case a rush was unnecessary.

Whatever else we might disagree about, we can find common ground here. I remember thinking that it was great that Bennett, who is usually good for at least two jumps a game, was playing with more discipline during the Super Bowl.

Then the jackass jumps. Stupid.

Sure, we only had a thousand to one shot at that point, but that was a hell of a lot better than the million to one chance we had after the penalty.

 

[ElTexan]

Ha. Both Greeny and Goliv admit pass on 2nd is right move. They are straight parroting my tweet and not giving me credit.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

I don't disagree with a pass there either, but it was an incredibly stupid pass play call, and the only one that didn't make any sense that could be called.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

If you are willing to be honest and take a broader look at the last full sequence, there are plenty of places to say the team made blunders.

Kearse makes a huge catch and runs out of bounds to stop the clock at 1:06 (I believe). Your staff dicks around so long they have to burn a precious time out with the clock already stopped! Sorry, this is a HUGE blunder. You run right over the top of them with Lynch for 4 yards. Why not just line up quick and do the same damned play again? No, they burn 40 seconds off the clock and put a 1 RB 1 TE set in and then adjust to a pass play based on the defense. Again BLUNDER. Play starts and Kearse fails at his job of setting the pick. GAME KILLER. Wilson fails to read that and throws the ball anway. BAD MISTAKE. And the throws a leading ball instead of right in his receivers chest. BAD THROW.

But that's not the end of the story. Then you have them at the 1y or inside of it even and they are lining up as if they are taking a knee?!? AND YOU LET THEM FAKE YOU INTO GIVING THEM 5y AND THE GAME. Had that not happened there's either a chance at a safety, a pick 6, or a fumble recovery that ends up winning you the game. Remember they hadn't been able to run that whole game. If you get a safety there you get a free kick with still 20 seconds on the clock and a timeout to get into FG range.

There was a lot of fail to be had in that last minute, and it's not like NE didn't either. Not calling timeouts was odd and they had a bad defensive set at the 5.

Everyone tightened up near the end and there were mistakes all over.

This isn't about one play call or one guy making that call. It just isn't. It is way more on Carroll, especially after they used that TO at 1:06. Blame Bennett for being so fucking stupid to jump off sides on an obvious bluff. I mean NE was going to burn a TO if we didn't do that, unless they were really setting up to give us the free kick anyway in which case a rush was unnecessary.

I'm just mad at Bevell because he's all around useless as a coordinator. He has no redeeming qualities. Carroll constructed a championship roster, is a defensive guru, and a great motivator even if he doesn't know diddly about offense. Bevell doesn't know diddly about diddly and does nothing for us. But I agree, Carroll did an awful job there at the end.