ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND BEVELL NOW????

[WizardHawk]

I'm just mad at Bevell because he's all around useless as a coordinator. He has no redeeming qualities. Carroll constructed a championship roster, is a defensive guru, and a great motivator even if he doesn't know diddly about offense. Bevell doesn't know diddly about diddly and does nothing for us. But I agree, Carroll did an awful job there at the end.

No way, not even close. Name me one receiver that's top 25 in the league. Name me a TE we have that is top 25 in the league. That killer championship roster is almost entirely on the defensive side. This is a defensive first team. Period. They are built to get just enough out of the offense for the defense to hold games. And the offense did that in spades going up 24-14 going into the 4th. Let me say that again...

The offense did it's job and gave the defense a 10 point lead going into the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. And that's with average receivers and backup to the backup TE's.

Further, your O line is above average at run blocking and well below average at pass blocking. Not a winning recipe.

Your argument would only hold weight if that offense was as stacked with talent as the defense is and was still under performing. I think Bevell mostly does an outstanding job with a mediocre bunch of players around Lynch and Wilson.

And I'm assuming you are an alt here. No one joins a site and their first half dozen posts are like this. Who else are you and why did you create a second character?

 

[trojanfan12]

After having a few days to think about that call, I'm not as bothered by it now as I was at the time.

Personally, I have more of an old school mentality. My feeling is that, with arguably the most difficult back in the league to hold to less than 1 yard, if you can't gain 1 yard in 3 tries, you don't deserve to win.

Having said that, coaching staffs spend countless hours going over every imaginable scenario and planning for it. They start weeks before the game, they discuss them all the way up to the day of the game and discuss it again when the scenario actually presents itself.

I'm sure they had the 1st and goal from the 1 scenario covered several different ways based on the personnel that the Patriots had in the game.

Again, it's not the call that I would have made, but I think much of the criticism is just overreaction because of what was at stake. 99% of the time, the worst thing that happens is that the pass gets knocked down and the Seahawks have 2 more shots to gain 1 yard.

The DB made a great play. Sometimes the defender wins.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

No way, not even close. Name me one receiver that's top 25 in the league. Name me a TE we have that is top 25 in the league. That killer championship roster is almost entirely on the defensive side. This is a defensive first team. Period. They are built to get just enough out of the offense for the defense to hold games. And the offense did that in spades going up 24-14 going into the 4th. Let me say that again...

The offense did it's job and gave the defense a 10 point lead going into the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. And that's with average receivers and backup to the backup TE's.

Further, your O line is above average at run blocking and well below average at pass blocking. Not a winning recipe.

Your argument would only hold weight if that offense was as stacked with talent as the defense is and was still under performing. I think Bevell mostly does an outstanding job with a mediocre bunch of players around Lynch and Wilson.

And I'm assuming you are an alt here. No one joins a site and their first half dozen posts are like this. Who else are you and why did you create a second character?

So Bevell carries no fault in drafting terrible players? Or do they keep a gag on him when draft day comes around because he doesn't know anything about personnel? We never draft offense?

And if you look at stats and what the experts have said, all around our line isn't even that good at run blocking. It's mostly Lynch punching his own holes and Wilson scrambling for yards and read option keeping at least one of the front 7 guessing.

Not only is the line atrocious at pass blocking, it's below average run blocking and one of the worst at committing penalties.

I am here because I want to understand why I find so many Bevell apologists here and no where else?

 

[WizardHawk]

After having a few days to think about that call, I'm not as bothered by it now as I was at the time.

Personally, I have more of an old school mentality. My feeling is that, with arguably the most difficult back in the league to hold to less than 1 yard, if you can't gain 1 yard in 3 tries, you don't deserve to win.

Having said that, coaching staffs spend countless hours going over every imaginable scenario and planning for it. They start weeks before the game, they discuss them all the up to the day of the game and discuss it again when the scenario actually presents itself.

I'm sure they had the 1st and goal from the 1 scenario covered several different ways based on the personnel that the Patriots had in the game.

Again, it's not the call that I would have made, but I think much of the criticism is just overreaction because of what was at stake. 99% of the time, the worst thing that happens is that the pass gets knocked down and the Seahawks have 2 more shots to gain 1 yard.

The DB made a great play. Sometimes the defender wins.

100%

I'd also add if you ran that same play 10 times that less than 3 would be picks even knowing now that they had practiced for this very play. Half might be throw away or drops, but not game enders. Wilson's throw really wasn't good.

 

[trojanfan12]

The worst part, imo, is that Belichek was all set up to be questioned ad nauseum about not using his timeouts to allow Brady more time to get into field goal range and the Seahawks let him off the hook.

The combination of Belichek getting endlessly grilled over that AND deflategate would have been something to behold.

 

[BoBlake]

As long as Pete trusts Bevell and the players trust Pete, I'm good with it.

Seattle just won their first SB last year and was an arms reach from another. We've never seen that as fans of this team before.

 

[WizardHawk]

So Bevell carries no fault in drafting terrible players? Or do they keep a gag on him when draft day comes around because he doesn't know anything about personnel? We never draft offense?

And if you look at stats and what the experts have said, all around our line isn't even that good at run blocking. It's mostly Lynch punching his own holes and Wilson scrambling for yards and read option keeping at least one of the front 7 guessing.

Not only is the line atrocious at pass blocking, it's below average run blocking and one of the worst at committing penalties.

I am here because I want to understand why I find so many Bevell apologists here and no where else?

Ok, so you start by saying Bevell sucks because they have a championship roster and he doesn't do well with it, and now change to saying the offense is actually worse than I portrayed it, but it's STILL Bevell's fault?

Most people want to fire Cable and I can't say I'm entirely against that idea. The O line is 90% him. He tells the coaches who he wants and he does all of the work with them. That shitty line is ALL him, or at least in terms of this conversation.

Who have they drafted since he came that was a terrible choice? I really don't know who makes those calls or how much input he has. If they have failed to evaluate talent and he is that much in control, then by all means put that on him. The lack of quality on offense wasn't what you were on about. It's a different topic. You said he's shitty with a championship quality roster. And I'd say that's fucking nuts.

I would defer to stoker or one of the other draft junkies around here on how much of the lack of talent on offense is really due to Bevell or how bad their draft picks on that side of the ball have been. I'd be open to giving him whatever criticism he is due in that area.

To say he is terrible at play calling with what he has defies logic to me and is a different conversation. With him at the helm you have made it to the SB two straight years with an average offense at every skill position outside of RB. You just can't say he sucks at it. It's pure emotion or a blind need to make a scapegoat or something, because it just defies logic.

 

[trojanfan12]

100%

I'd also add if you ran that same play 10 times that less than 3 would be picks even knowing now that they had practiced for this very play. Half might be throw away or drops, but not game enders. Wilson's throw really wasn't good.

The only thing I don't agree with you on is Wilson's throw. It a was timing pattern so he was just throwing to a spot and expecting the receiver to be there. The receiver was there, the ball was where it was supposed to be, but the DB read the play, got a great jump on the ball and beat the receiver to the spot by 1/10 of a second. If he'd been any later it's likely a touchdown or PI. In fact, if you recall, he actually knocked the receiver out of the way because they literally arrived at the same spot at virtually the same moment.

 

[WizardHawk]

The only thing I don't agree with you on is Wilson's throw. It was timing pattern so he was just throwing to a spot and expecting the receiver to be there. The receiver was there, the ball was where it was supposed to be, but the DB read the play, got a great jump on the ball and beat the receiver to the spot by 1/10 of a second. If he'd been any later it's likely a touchdown or PI. In fact, if you recall, he actually knocked the receiver out of the way because they literally arrived at the same spot at virtually the same moment.

It should have been lower and to the right, even as a spot pass. I said that after the game, and now Warner and others are also saying the same thing. Kurt knows that play well and said it's an easy play if ran right and the ball is in the right spot, neither of which he thinks happened. All 3 had to fail for that to happen. We just give Kearse more forgiveness because he was against Browner.

 

[trojanfan12]

It should have been lower and to the right, even as a spot pass. I said that after the game, and now Warner and others are also saying the same thing. Kurt knows that play well and said it's an easy play if ran right and the ball is in the right spot, neither of which he thinks happened. All 3 had to fail for that to happen. We just give Kearse more forgiveness because he was against Browner.

Well, they say that it's a game of inches, so a couple of inches lower and to the right may have made a huge difference. Even with where the ball was placed though, it took an outstanding play by the DB to stop it.

I look at it like this, it took an amazing catch by Kearse to get the Seahawks in position to win the game and it took a great play by the DB to end the game.

 

[GoToHellBevell]

Ok, so you start by saying Bevell sucks because they have a championship roster and he doesn't do well with it, and now change to saying the offense is actually worse than I portrayed it, but it's STILL Bevell's fault?

Most people want to fire Cable and I can't say I'm entirely against that idea. The O line is 90% him. He tells the coaches who he wants and he does all of the work with them. That shitty line is ALL him, or at least in terms of this conversation.

Who have they drafted since he came that was a terrible choice? I really don't know who makes those calls or how much input he has. If they have failed to evaluate talent and he is that much in control, then by all means put that on him. The lack of quality on offense wasn't what you were on about. It's a different topic. You said he's shitty with a championship quality roster. And I'd say that's fucking nuts.

I would defer to stoker or one of the other draft junkies around here on how much of the lack of talent on offense is really due to Bevell or how bad their draft picks on that side of the ball have been. I'd be open to giving him whatever criticism he is due in that area.

To say he is terrible at play calling with what he has defies logic to me and is a different conversation. With him at the helm you have made it to the SB two straight years with an average offense at every skill position outside of RB. You just can't say he sucks at it. It's pure emotion or a blind need to make a scapegoat or something, because it just defies logic.

I agree that Cable is a joke. A former HC, demoted to a specialist coach and still does a lousy job is quite laughable. But Bevell must have a lot of input too. And if he doesn't, well he should be if he's worth a cent.

Even if you ignore the lack of talent on the line, you can't ignore the lack of talent at receiver.

Wilson was a great draft choice, but not much else. Not sure how much of that was on Bevell, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The rare times Unger isn't injured he shows some flashes of pro bowl and at other times he can't even snap the ball properly. Yet he, Lynch, and Tate were here before Bevell was. So maybe he had input in drafting Wilson? That's about all can be said that's positive about his drafting prowess, and that's an IF.

Bevell wanted Harvin, we know what a disaster that turned out. Probably because he coached him at Minnesota. Thanks to that we had a lot fewer picks that could have been used on offense.

I did not steer the topic away from his playcalling, you said he had no talent on offense to work with as an excuse and I simply pointed out that talent on offense (mostly lack thereof) is also his responsibility.

 

[tzorn10]

Ha. Both Greeny and Goliv admit pass on 2nd is right move. They are straight parroting my tweet and not giving me credit.

Cripes, what an attention whore. Your attempt of patting yourself on the back is down right embarrassing.

 

[BHF]

I look at it like this, it took an amazing catch by Kearse to get the Seahawks in position to win the game and it took a great play by the DB to end the game.

As I make more and more peace with the game, I keep coming back to this as well. It took a miraculous catch that we had no business expecting just to be in the position we were in at the end of the game.

 

[tzorn10]

I think Carroll agreed to Bevells dumbass play because he was panicking at the time after Belichick called his bluff and didn't call a time out. Carroll had no idea what to do, he just went along for the ride because he was unprepared. When the time was upon them, both Bevell and Carroll failed. Simple as that.


The only thing that would cause me any type of happiness after that atrocity, would be the firing of Bevell.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think Carroll agreed to Bevells dumbass play because he was panicking at the time after Belichick called his bluff and didn't call a time out. Carroll had no idea what to do, he just went along for the ride because he was unprepared. When the time was upon them, both Bevell and Carroll failed. Simple as that.


The only thing that would cause me any type of happiness after that atrocity, would be the firing of Bevell.

Yes, clearly the thing to do is start firing coaches who just got you back to back Super Bowl appearances and the first championship in team history over 1 call.

That would be completely justified and not even a slight overreaction. :rollseyes:

 

[GoToHellBevell]

Yes, clearly the thing to do is start firing coaches who just got you back to back Super Bowl appearances and the first championship in team history over 1 call.

That would be completely justified and not even a slight overreaction. :rollseyes:

What about firing Bevell when the locker room is fastening a noose to hang him with and he's throwing them under busses for his own incompetence? Nevermind his horrendous playcalling over the years, even before the Seahawks. Our defense carried us to the Super Bowl. If not for the offense constantly getting short fields and turnovers from the D, they do absolutely nothing.

 

[WizardHawk]

I agree that Cable is a joke. A former HC, demoted to a specialist coach and still does a lousy job is quite laughable. But Bevell must have a lot of input too. And if he doesn't, well he should be if he's worth a cent.

Even if you ignore the lack of talent on the line, you can't ignore the lack of talent at receiver.

Wilson was a great draft choice, but not much else. Not sure how much of that was on Bevell, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The rare times Unger isn't injured he shows some flashes of pro bowl and at other times he can't even snap the ball properly. Yet he, Lynch, and Tate were here before Bevell was. So maybe he had input in drafting Wilson? That's about all can be said that's positive about his drafting prowess, and that's an IF.

Bevell wanted Harvin, we know what a disaster that turned out. Probably because he coached him at Minnesota. Thanks to that we had a lot fewer picks that could have been used on offense.

I did not steer the topic away from his playcalling, you said he had no talent on offense to work with as an excuse and I simply pointed out that talent on offense (mostly lack thereof) is also his responsibility.

I said I'd entertain criticizing him over the drafts if that is warranted. The discussion is about his play calling and while you want it both ways, I'll stick to saying his calls have been fine for the most part given who they are throwing to and/or who is on that line.

As for putting blame on Bevell for that line, I keep reading about people saying Cable's deal is he gets free control over the line as part of his being here and that's why they dump on him so much. If that's not true then so be it, but it seems to me if you want to fire anyone off that offense in an attempt to make it better you get rid of Cable and try putting a decent line together and work from there.

The Harvin thing was bad and did keep them from draft picks that surely would have had more impact on the team this year than what Percy gave them. Everyone involved in that should be vilified.

Haven't been happy with the Michael pick either. Not sure there were better options at WR than what they got last year, but those dez kind of receivers are super rare. I do wish they would get a solid TE and/or receiver. I'm just saying I'll defer to the draft junkies on those evaluations. I wouldn't argue if people say they aren't in favor of Bevell based on draft picks if they have done their homework on it.

 

[WizardHawk]

There's a rumor going around that Lynch's agent told the team Marshawn wouldn't be signing any extension, nor will he play another down for this team (retire), if Bevell is still here. Most rumors are junk, but if that one was true I'd obviously be in favor of getting rid of Bevell. Team isn't going to easily replace Lynch whenever he finally does retire/move on.

 

[tzorn10]

Gee, I wonder why Lynch would do something like that.

 

[dude82]

There's a rumor going around that Lynch's agent told the team Marshawn wouldn't be signing any extension, nor will he play another down for this team (retire), if Bevell is still here. Most rumors are junk, but if that one was true I'd obviously be in favor of getting rid of Bevell. Team isn't going to easily replace Lynch whenever he finally does retire/move on.

I think this was one of the first scenarios being thrown around almost immediately after the Super Bowl. Someone on this board, I forget who it was, even mentioned the time against Arizona on TNF when everybody and their mother thought that Lynch was going to get the ball to score a touchdown near the goal line, but a pass play was called instead and he could be seen flipping someone on the Seahawks sideline the bird. I don't think it needs to be spelled out who that was directed towards. So this is one of the reasons why most people just assumed it was Bevell's call all the way to pass there and not Carroll's. This just adds more fuel to that fire and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if what's being described in the rumor is actually what's happening.