ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND BEVELL NOW????

[tzorn10]

There really is no excuse. He truly needs to go.

 

[WizardHawk]

All I ask is that they admit they were outcoached and learn from this. But based on what we've heard, they aren't even acknowledging they did anything wrong, even though every man woman and child could see what they did wrong. That's what's infuriating. And if they are stupid enough to call this play, they are stupid enough to call other stupid plays in the future. I wanna keep Carroll around so this means Bevell needs to go to knock some sense into the offensive playcalling.

Again, the problem was not adjusting for Browner's ability to press and avoid the rub.

If you don't think they will look at their playbook and make adjustments based off this, then I don't think you understand how the process of working a scheme goes. Of course they will.

This wasn't a judgement call at the time of the play, it was an oversight in the plan due to playing against maybe the best press corner at least in the AFC and needing to have a rub against him. Hell, Carroll should have known that and stopped it and we all know that, but these things go so fast. It's just read and react and go.

The playbook will be adjusted. It's always part of the process. When plays don't work they look at why and either fix them or dump them. That's kind of how it works.

 

[Logicallylethal]

It's always on the HC and GM when it comes to personnel matters, so to an extent, yes, it is on PC and JS for not having brought in more WR help, or at least better help. I don't think anyone knows how much input Bevell has - and I'm not saying he has none, just that I don't know - and unless someone were in the war room/meetings there really isn't any way to find out. PC/JS have been given all the credit for their hits, they have to shoulder the blame for their misses.

Honestly, how much does the input of our scouting department go into who we decide to go for at any given position? Was Richardson rated over Matthews, or did they get too cute on the trade down with Detroit and lost him when Philly traded up?

In the end, Bevell has no personnel powers. If Pete and John just want him to use the players they bring in, that's their choice. I don't think it likely he has no input, but unless he's the one who's telling them who to draft (which I highly doubt) or sign, then it's really not his burden to bear.

I've always wondered that too. I had Matthews rated fairly high. He has such a good combination of size and speed with good enough hands and a willingness to learn and improve.

He has excelled in the chip kelly system, but I think even in our system he could be an incredibly valuable weapon. We needed someone like that but instead we drafted a small speedy wr (ones that we've had in abundance during Russell's time here).

 

[SonnyCID]

So you're gonna blame one of the worst players on the team for not making a play instead of the coach that needlessly put him in the position? lol

can you read, mother fucker?

I said I won't defend the call. But go ahead and ignore the shit effort displayed on that play if it makes your bitching and whining sound better to yourself.

 

[WizardHawk]

Seattle's offense was the 26th payroll in football last year. That they were near the bottom in productivity stands to reason. They are a defense orientated team. The savings they had by not having to pay their QB what other teams do was spent on defense.

More, I liken playing for our teams offense to the Mariners trying to get hitters before they adjusted the dimensions of Safeco. Tate left because he was never going to get used like a passing offense would on our team. Run first offenses don't attract top receivers. They aren't going to get the stats and pay they would on teams that are pass heavy.

Those that want to generally blame Bevell for not having a top 10 offense are ignoring how this team is built. It's by design they aren't that high. Carroll wants a 'safe and sane' approach to offense. Take care of the ball and don't take many risks. Go ahead and punt instead of turn it over. Let your defense keep you in games and if needed go for the more risky stuff late if you have to. The statistical results shouldn't surprise people and cannot possibly be put on anyone but Carroll for his vision. And it works! You don't go to the SB two years in a row on a bad philosophy. You just don't.

Change OC's now and all you do is force the offense to start over with terminology and schemes and it will take months for them to get as comfortable in them as they were in this one. No one can convince me it wouldn't set them back to the point where a SB run is almost entirely off the table for next year, even if it's a very much better OC. That OC is still going to have to operate in a defense first run heavy offense. The leopard isn't going to change it's spots.

 

[gohusk]

Seattle's offense was the 26th payroll in football last year. That they were near the bottom in productivity stands to reason. They are a defense orientated team. The savings they had by not having to pay their QB what other teams do was spent on defense.

More, I liken playing for our teams offense to the Mariners trying to get hitters before they adjusted the dimensions of Safeco. Tate left because he was never going to get used like a passing offense would on our team. Run first offenses don't attract top receivers. They aren't going to get the stats and pay they would on teams that are pass heavy.

Those that want to generally blame Bevell for not having a top 10 offense are ignoring how this team is built. It's by design they aren't that high. Carroll wants a 'safe and sane' approach to offense. Take care of the ball and don't take many risks. Go ahead and punt instead of turn it over. Let your defense keep you in games and if needed go for the more risky stuff late if you have to. The statistical results shouldn't surprise people and cannot possibly be put on anyone but Carroll for his vision. And it works! You don't go to the SB two years in a row on a bad philosophy. You just don't.

Change OC's now and all you do is force the offense to start over with terminology and schemes and it will take months for them to get as comfortable in them as they were in this one. No one can convince me it wouldn't set them back to the point where a SB run is almost entirely off the table for next year, even if it's a very much better OC. That OC is still going to have to operate in a defense first run heavy offense. The leopard isn't going to change it's spots.

The only reason that works is because Wilson has been able to pull rabbits out of his ass in clutch situations. My question is why don't we take that same type of aggressive approach earlier in the game so we aren't constantly in tight situations where he has to show his magic? And trying to run an offense based on the scramble drill (which is what we basically did for the first half of the season with receivers running half assed routes to get down field and see if Wilson could get outside for him) is not safe and sane as far as keeping your QB healthy. If we didn't have a guy like Wilson to make this work then we'd be a 10-6 team at best because he's good for at least 2 a year on game closing drives. Throw in the fact that he's able to move the ball so efficiently with limited attempts and we probably don't sniff the playoffs without him.

As far as the change of terminology goes, that's getting completely overstated. OC's leave or get fired all the time and there's continuity for the most part (unless the offense is in shambles or the team is getting rebuilt) because that's how the business works. The coach adapts to the team, not vice versa.

 

[WizardHawk]

The safe and sane aspect is not taking huge risks early. They slow play most first halves of games. Runs and very low risk throws. Lots of punts. Some of it is 'feeling out' the defense, and the rest is don't turn the ball over at all costs. You just don't see them going for home runs as much in the first half of most games.

Is that Bevell or Carroll? Seems to me our HC is the one saying over and over what his philosophy is and his offense is built around it. Create turnovers and take great care with the ball on offense. That means don't take risks you don't have to. Run conservative plays.

You can take your dream OC and imagine him on this team, but the offense wouldn't look substantially different. It just wouldn't. Especially as long as Lynch is here and playing at this level. They aren't going to suddenly start becoming more of a passing team just because they change OC when it's Carroll's vision driving that side of the ball. Some of the plays might change, but not to any big degree.

 

[dude82]

I think we only have to look at the Bradley-to-Quinn transition on defense to see how a change in coordinators can work and work well without rocking the boat. I remember when Quinn was hired after Bradley left. I think people were more excited to hopefully be getting a more aggressive coordinator than they were worried about losing continuity on that side of the ball or wasting a year on Quinn trying to establish himself. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Carroll hired a guy who had previously worked under Bradley.

Carroll has been around long enough to know that championship windows don't stay open forever, so he wasn't going to want to waste a year or more of that opening by hiring a guy who was going to come in and try to turn Spanish into French. There were going to be some new wrinkles no matter who they hired, sure, but if Carroll wanted a guy to come in and completely overhaul everything, including the language, he'd have hired someone else to do it. I just can't see him taking the complete opposite approach in hiring a new offensive coordinator. If he decided to fire Bevell, he'd either replace him with someone already on the staff or he'd find a guy who speaks the same football language as Bevell did but has a different approach to using that language to improve the team.

 

[WizardHawk]

I think we only have to look at the Bradley-to-Quinn transition on defense to see how a change in coordinators can work and work well without rocking the boat. I remember when Quinn was hired after Bradley left. I think people were more excited to hopefully be getting a more aggressive coordinator than they were worried about losing continuity on that side of the ball or wasting a year on Quinn trying to establish himself. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Carroll hired a guy who had previously worked under Bradley.

Carroll has been around long enough to know that championship windows don't stay open forever, so he wasn't going to want to waste a year or more of that opening by hiring a guy who was going to come in and try to turn Spanish into French. There were going to be some new wrinkles no matter who they hired, sure, but if Carroll wanted a guy to come in and completely overhaul everything, including the language, he'd have hired someone else to do it. I just can't see him taking the complete opposite approach in hiring a new offensive coordinator. If he decided to fire Bevell, he'd either replace him with someone already on the staff or he'd find a guy who speaks the same football language as Bevell did but has a different approach to using that language to improve the team.

Apples and oranges. The defense IS Carroll. They can bring anyone in and it wouldn't change. The offense may be based on his desires, but all of the details are laid out by the OC.

Completely different.

Not worried in the least about Quinn leaving. Could have brought in anyone and I wouldn't be worried. Offense is a whole different thing for this team.

 

[tzorn10]

. Carroll wants a 'safe and sane' approach to offense. Take care of the ball and don't take many risks.

Wish he would have practiced what he preached last weekend. Instead his arrogance, ego, and shear ignorance of the game cost us a super bowl. Oh well. Lets just hope he doesn't continue to be such a dumbass in the future.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Wish he would have practiced what he preached last weekend. Instead his arrogance, ego, and shear ignorance of the game cost us a super bowl. Oh well. Lets just hope he doesn't continue to be such a dumbass in the future.

Pete just took the Seahwks to back to back Superbowls and you want to criticize him? Calling someone a dumb ass? You must of been looking in a mirror when you said that.

 

[BoBlake]

Pete just took the Seahwks to back to back Superbowls and you want to criticize him? Calling someone a dumb ass? You must of been looking in a mirror when you said that.

This guy is a joke. Between him and BoogieWithStu this shits getting old really quick.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

This guy is a joke. Between him and BoogieWithStu this shits getting old really quick.

Tzorn is at best a faint hearted fan, at best. Boogie...well I've always like him, a real Seahawk fan IMO, but he has been going off the rails of late, with a little time hopefully he's gets back to his old self.

 

[tzorn10]

Pete just took the Seahwks to back to back Superbowls and you want to criticize him? Calling someone a dumb ass? You must of been looking in a mirror when you said that.

Players makes plays too that can offset subpar coaching. Lets not forget that. We actually had no business being in the super bowl anyways if we want to be honest with ourselves. Green Bay pissed the playoff game away to us.

So we have 2nd down and goal on the 1 yrd line (or half yard line) and he ok's a slant play to Ricardo Lockette? My God. A play that depends on Kearse to rub Browner to be successful, but yet Browner is one of the best press people in the game. Oh wait, maybe Pete isn't familiar with Browner. He only played for us for goodness sakes. Its inexcusable. Like I've said about Pete Carroll, great judge of talent and great motivator. As a coach with the X's and O's, theres surely better people out there as Belichik reminded us.

The saddest thing about Carroll's ego is that he's standing behind the play. He refuses to admit that he fucked up. That tells me if the situation ever were to happen again, he would call the same play. Seriously? This is my biggest issue with the guy. What a fucking ego.

 

[tzorn10]

Tzorn is at best a faint hearted fan, at best.

Yeah, I'm not a fan because I'm not kissing Pete Carrolls ass after he and Bevell cooked up the worst play in football history to choke a super bowl away. I don't know how you people can just look the other way and still coddle those guys.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

]Players makes plays too that can offset subpar coaching[/B]. Lets not forget that. We actually had no business being in the super bowl anyways if we want to be honest with ourselves. Green Bay pissed the playoff game away to us.

So we have 2nd down and goal on the 1 yrd line (or half yard line) and he ok's a slant play to Ricardo Lockette? My God. A play that depends on Kearse to rub Browner to be successful, but yet Browner is one of the best press people in the game. Oh wait, maybe Pete isn't familiar with Browner. He only played for us for goodness sakes. Its inexcusable. Like I've said about Pete Carroll, great judge of talent and great motivator. As a coach with the X's and O's, theres surely better people out there as Belichik reminded us.

The saddest thing about Carroll's ego is that he's standing behind the play. He refuses to admit that he fucked up. That tells me if the situation ever were to happen again, he would call the same play. Seriously? This is my biggest issue with the guy. What a fucking ego.

In regard to what I bolded first, players also do the reverse. Pete success goes beyond simply thinking the players are doing this despite him. It's ludicrous to think otherwise. You just making yourself look foolish here tzorn.

The second part, yes the Packers blow it and gave the Seahawks a slim chance to pull off a win. How as a so called "Seahawk fan" you can't appreciate the way the Seahawks answered says much about you.

As for the third part, the glory goes to Butler not Browner. He read that play from the start.

 

[tzorn10]

As for the third part, the glory goes to Butler not Browner. He read that play from the start.

Hats off to Butler for making a great play on a play that should have never been called.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Hats off to Butler for making a great play on a play that should have never been called.

Exactly... Bevell should be arrested.... Send out and APB

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Hats off to Butler for making a great play on a play that should have never been called.

I'm on a island here, but here goes...everyone expected a running play, so a quick slant should of been a surprise that could work. Bad execution and a great read by Butler made it a poor play IMO.

 

[tzorn10]

How as a so called "Seahawk fan" you can't appreciate the way the Seahawks answered says much about you.

Who said I didn't appreciate Seattle winning the game? I was ecstatic. Again, doesn't change the fact that Seattle had no business winning it. Green Bay lost that game more then Seattle won it. I know you know that though. I'm just saying it like it is.

As a so called Seattle fan, how can you be ok with Carrolls decision in the super bowl? How can so called Seattle fans just lightly let it go like nothing happened? That's why I question who the real so called Seattle fans truly are.