Anybody else sick of Gale Sayers?

[richig07]

While it was nice of you to point out nearly identical ypc, it is interesting to note Gale's higher passing yardage totals. The only yardage total difference was due to the amount of carries Walter had over Gale. When I talk about Gale's running ability being superior to Walters, it is hard not to also include return yardage in those figures, as he is running with the ball. Gale's 1966 total yardage figures for the year 2,440. Staggering huh. Especially since Walter only managed 2121 total yards that year.


Best part about this debate, it is like trying to argue, what flavor ice cream is the best.

LOL... No, it's not. It's like someone trying to argue that the sun is red, while someone sane points out that it is in fact blue. Nice try though. I also just knew you'd try to bring up the receiving yardage to try and wiggle your way out of it. Quite the contradiction that you're willing to say Sayers only had less rushing yards because of the fewer attempts, but then use the fact that Sayers had more targets in the passing game which resulted in more yards than Payton against him.

Not to mention the fact, that Sayers wouldn't have been on pace to match Payton's rushing totals EVEN WITH AN EVEN AMOUNT OF CARRIES. Oh, and let's not ALSO forget the fact that... GEE WHIZ... the reason Payton was able to handle that much more of a load than Sayers in a season was because he was arguably the most durable running back of all-time. YET ANOTHER, reason the two aren't even in the same breath.

The kick return yardage? Wow, really? Now we're really grasping for straws here. You don't just tack on return yardage to a RB's yard FROM SCRIMMAGE totals when it's convenient for you.

I won't even bring up the fact that Walter was ALSO a tremendous return man. So any edge that gives Sayers is minimal, AT BEST. Any edge that gives Sayers is also ERASED completely by the fact that Payton was probably the best blocking RB of all-time, while Sayers was quite pedestrian.

Any way you slice it, Payton is so far superior.

Sayers Three Best Seasons (14 Games)

229 Carries 1231 Yards 8 TD's 5.4 Y/A 87.9 Y/G --- 34 REC 447 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 1678

166 Carries 867 Yards 14 TD's 5.2 Y/A 61.9 Y/G --- 29 REC 507 YARDS 6 TD's YSCM 1374

236 Carries 1032 Yards 8 TD's 4.4 Y/A 73.7 Y/G --- 17 REC 116 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 1148

Payton's Three Best Seasons... and fourth... and fifth... and so on

14 Games

339 Carries 1852 Yards 14 TD's 5.5 Y/A 132.3 Y/G --- 27 REC 269 Yards 2 TD YSCM 2121

311 Carries 1390 Yards 13 TD's 4.5 Y/A 100.3 Y/G --- 15 REC 149 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 1539

That's NOT ONE... but two 14 game seasons where Walter had more rush yards, more yards from scrimmage, more rush TD's, and more yards per game than Gale ever did in a season throughout his entire career. EVEN in Sayers best two seasons, he never came that close to matching the numbers Walter put up in his second and third seasons when they were still playing 14 game seasons.

Oh, but the dominance doesn't stop there. Walter's prime stretches on for over a decade. Where he goes on to compile COUNTLESS seasons where he'd outperform Gale in his best season he ever saw.

Walter compiled FOUR SEASONS with over 2000 yards from scrimmage. Something Gale wasn't even EVER on pace to do if he had played a 16 game seasons. The closest he would have came was in 1966, when he finished with 1678. Alas, his 110 total Y/G average leaves him roughly around 1900 yards if he had played two more games.

324 Carries 1551 Yards 9 TD's 4.8 Y/A 96.9 Y/G --- 49 REC 483 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 2034

381 Carries 1684 Yards 11 TD's 4.4 Y/A 105.3 Y/G --- 45 REC 368 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 2052

314 Carries 1421 Yards 6 TD's 4.5 Y/A 88.8 Y/G --- 53 REC 607 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 2028

*Other 2000 plus yard season listed under 14 game seasons*

Sayers also was not on pace to match Payton's rushing yardage totals, and/or his YSCM totals in these seasons.

369 Carries 1610 Yards 14 TD's 4.4 Y/A 100.6 Y/G --- 31 REC 313 Yards 2 TD's 1923 YSCM

317 Carries 1460 Yards 6 TD's 4.6 Y/A 91.3 Y/G --- 46 REC 367 Yards 1 TD 1827 YSCM

321 Carries 1333 Yards 8 TD's 4.2 Y/A 83.3 Y/G --- 37 REC 382 Yards 3 TD's 1715 YSCM

333 Carries 1395 Yards 11 TD's 4.2 Y/A 87.2 Y/G --- 50 REC 480 Yards 0 TD's 1875 YSCM

So... Walter has 9 seasons better than Sayers 2 best seasons, and 5 seasons better than Sayers #1 best season.

Lesson learned here? If you want a highlight reel run, take Sayers. If you want the better back, and you want to win football games... take Payton.

At no point in his career, was Sayers better than Payton during the time that Payton dominated the NFL for AN ENTIRE DECADE. An entire decade where Payton was a better running back than Sayers in his best two seasons. Payton averaged more rush yards per game throughout his career, more rushing yards per season throughout his career, more receiving yards per season, more receptions per season, more TD's per season, etc... man oh man. Where does the dominance end here folks? Sayers was never on pace to things that Payton did ROUTINELY throughout his career.

Hmm... it would appear there's only one flavor of ice cream on the menu.


NOTE: Did I dive too deep into this argument, hell yes. However, it just goes to show that the further that research is done, the more obvious it becomes that Sayers can't hold Payton's jock.

 

[NCChiFan]

LOL... No, it's not. It's like someone trying to argue that the sun is red, while someone sane points out that it is in fact blue. Nice try though. I also just knew you'd try to bring up the receiving yardage to try and wiggle your way out of it. Quite the contradiction that you're willing to say Sayers only had less rushing yards because of the fewer attempts, but then use the fact that Sayers had more targets in the passing game which resulted in more yards than Payton against him.

Not to mention the fact, that Sayers wouldn't have been on pace to match Payton's rushing totals EVEN WITH AN EVEN AMOUNT OF CARRIES. Oh, and let's not ALSO forget the fact that... GEE WHIZ... the reason Payton was able to handle that much more of a load than Sayers in a season was because he was arguably the most durable running back of all-time. YET ANOTHER, reason the two aren't even in the same breath.

The kick return yardage? Wow, really? Now we're really grasping for straws here. You don't just tack on return yardage to a RB's yard FROM SCRIMMAGE totals when it's convenient for you.

I won't even bring up the fact that Walter was ALSO a tremendous return man. So any edge that gives Sayers is minimal, AT BEST. Any edge that gives Sayers is also ERASED completely by the fact that Payton was probably the best blocking RB of all-time, while Sayers was quite pedestrian.

Any way you slice it, Payton is so far superior.

Sayers Three Best Seasons (14 Games)

229 Carries 1231 Yards 8 TD's 5.4 Y/A 87.9 Y/G --- 34 REC 447 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 1678

166 Carries 867 Yards 14 TD's 5.2 Y/A 61.9 Y/G --- 29 REC 507 YARDS 6 TD's YSCM 1374

236 Carries 1032 Yards 8 TD's 4.4 Y/A 73.7 Y/G --- 17 REC 116 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 1148

Payton's Three Best Seasons... and fourth... and fifth... and so on

14 Games

339 Carries 1852 Yards 14 TD's 5.5 Y/A 132.3 Y/G --- 27 REC 269 Yards 2 TD YSCM 2121

311 Carries 1390 Yards 13 TD's 4.5 Y/A 100.3 Y/G --- 15 REC 149 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 1539

That's NOT ONE... but two 14 game seasons where Walter had more rush yards, more yards from scrimmage, more rush TD's, and more yards per game than Gale ever did in a season throughout his entire career. EVEN in Sayers best two seasons, he never came that close to matching the numbers Walter put up in his second and third seasons when they were still playing 14 game seasons.

Oh, but the dominance doesn't stop there. Walter's prime stretches on for over a decade. Where he goes on to compile COUNTLESS seasons where he'd outperform Gale in his best season he ever saw.

Walter compiled FOUR SEASONS with over 2000 yards from scrimmage. Something Gale wasn't even EVER on pace to do if he had played a 16 game seasons. The closest he would have came was in 1966, when he finished with 1678. Alas, his 110 total Y/G average leaves him roughly around 1900 yards if he had played two more games.

324 Carries 1551 Yards 9 TD's 4.8 Y/A 96.9 Y/G --- 49 REC 483 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 2034

381 Carries 1684 Yards 11 TD's 4.4 Y/A 105.3 Y/G --- 45 REC 368 Yards 0 TD's YSCM 2052

314 Carries 1421 Yards 6 TD's 4.5 Y/A 88.8 Y/G --- 53 REC 607 Yards 2 TD's YSCM 2028

*Other 2000 plus yard season listed under 14 game seasons*

Sayers also was not on pace to match Payton's rushing yardage totals, and/or his YSCM totals in these seasons.

369 Carries 1610 Yards 14 TD's 4.4 Y/A 100.6 Y/G --- 31 REC 313 Yards 2 TD's 1923 YSCM

317 Carries 1460 Yards 6 TD's 4.6 Y/A 91.3 Y/G --- 46 REC 367 Yards 1 TD 1827 YSCM

321 Carries 1333 Yards 8 TD's 4.2 Y/A 83.3 Y/G --- 37 REC 382 Yards 3 TD's 1715 YSCM

333 Carries 1395 Yards 11 TD's 4.2 Y/A 87.2 Y/G --- 50 REC 480 Yards 0 TD's 1875 YSCM

So... Walter has 9 seasons better than Sayers 2 best seasons, and 5 seasons better than Sayers #1 best season.

Lesson learned here? If you want a highlight reel run, take Sayers. If you want the better back, and you want to win football games... take Payton.

At no point in his career, was Sayers better than Payton during the time that Payton dominated the NFL for AN ENTIRE DECADE. An entire decade where Payton was a better running back than Sayers in his best two seasons. Payton averaged more rush yards per game throughout his career, more rushing yards per season throughout his career, more receiving yards per season, more receptions per season, more TD's per season, etc... man oh man. Where does the dominance end here folks? Sayers was never on pace to things that Payton did ROUTINELY throughout his career.

Hmm... it would appear there's only one flavor of ice cream on the menu.


NOTE: Did I dive too deep into this argument, hell yes. However, it just goes to show that the further that research is done, the more obvious it becomes that Sayers can't hold Payton's jock.

Sorry, stats are all nice and dandy, but fact is Walter doesn't come close to being the same running back Sayers was with the ball, in my eye's. Walter had amazing balance and strength, but there was a reason Walter never broke off long runs, he wasn't that fast, don't get me wrong, fast enough but not OJ fast, people caught Walter from behind. The longest run of Walter's career was an 85 yarder in a playoff game called back due to a holding penalty and he was dragging guys during that run. Gale was shifty and fast, much better runner, he wasn't caught from behind. The only greatest year stat that matters is the YPC, and they're basically identical. All those wonderful Walter massive stats come because he had like 100 more carries a season. YPC are roughly identical.

 

[leomaz]

you are sadly mistaken

Sorry, stats are all nice and dandy, but fact is Walter doesn't come close to being the same running back Sayers was with the ball, in my eye's. Walter had amazing bis great you use himance and strength, but there was a reason Walter never broke off long runs, he wasn't that fast, don't get me wrong, fast enough but not OJ fast, people caught Walter from behind. The longest run of Walter's career was an 85 yarder in a playoff game called back due to a holding penalty and he was dragging guys during that run. Gale was shifty and fast, much better runner, he wasn't caught from behind. The only greatest year stat that matters is the YPC, and they're basically identical. All those wonderful Walter massive stats come because he had like 100 more carries a season. YPC are roughly identical.

Walter was by far the better of the 2. Gale Sayers got caught from behind many of times so saying he never did is a lie and the reason Walter got "100" more carries a season was because HE WAS BETTER!!!!!!!. When a player is great you use him. Being fast isn't the only prerequisite to being a running back. It is okay for Gale though. If he is second to Walter thats pretty good.

Sayers longest rush was only 70 yards, Walters 75 yards. .....your argument is invalid

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Walter had amazing balance and strength, but there was a reason Walter never broke off long runs, he wasn't that fast, don't get me wrong, fast enough but not OJ fast, people caught Walter from behind. The longest run of Walter's career was an 85 yarder in a playoff game called back due to a holding penalty and he was dragging guys during that run.

Payton's longest run was 76 yards. Sayers' longest run was 70 yards.

This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I grew up on Walter, so the only Sayers I've seen are the highlights, and highlight films are no way to judge anything because they leave out all the crap. So I have no opinion as to who was better, only that Walter was pretty freaking awesome.

 

[NCChiFan]

Payton's longest run was 76 yards. Sayers' longest run was 70 yards.

This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I grew up on Walter, so the only Sayers I've seen are the highlights, and highlight films are no way to judge anything because they leave out all the crap. So I have no opinion as to who was better, only that Walter was pretty freaking awesome.

I agree... Probably the best way to look at it for me. Walter was all about power/balance, Sayer's was more of a shifty speed back. They had totally different run styles. Look up on youtube the most elusive runners in the NFL. Gale is #2 behind Barry Sanders, but listen to what the players that played against Gale had to say. I would imagine Walter was like trying to tackle a bowling ball or a weeble (they wobble but don't fall down), while Gale, even if he was standing close enough for you to smell his breath, you couldn't put a finger on him. Just different

Really like Leo's and Richig's opinions, and there is no wrong answer here, just opinion. Yes I was fortunate enough to watch Gale play, which most weren't, but I also watched Walter play. My opinions come from this not from youtube cuts or stat dissection.

 

[63bears40]

Payton's longest run was 76 yards. Sayers' longest run was 70 yards.

This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I grew up on Walter, so the only Sayers I've seen are the highlights, and highlight films are no way to judge anything because they leave out all the crap. So I have no opinion as to who was better, only that Walter was pretty freaking awesome.

I watched them both . If I had to choose 1 for 1 game I'd take Sayers. Fuck the stats. Both were amazing RBs. But Gale was more fun to watch.

 

[leomaz]

fun to watch? buy the highlight video.

I watched them both . If I had to choose 1 for 1 game I'd take Sayers. Fuck the stats. Both were amazing RBs. But Gale was more fun to watch.

If being fun to watch was the only criteria for this debate, it would have to be Walter. All the plays where he ran into tacklers knocking them off, straight arming would be tacklers, running around the backfield trying to get yards because the blocking was atrocious. Throwing td passes. Disappearing into the line and reappearing downfield for long gain. Catching swing passes for tds. Blocking huge linebackers so the QBs can complete passes. Hell, the one run against Kansas City where he knocked tackler after tackler off him If you say Gale was more fun too Watch, then Payton was even more fun because he had a longer career giving more 'fun to watch" plays. Gale's fun to watch tape would is 2/3 shorter than Walters and 1/2 as fun. Walter was just a better all around football player. PERIOD

 

[NCChiFan]

If being fun to watch was the only criteria for this debate, it would have to be Walter. All the plays where he ran into tacklers knocking them off, straight arming would be tacklers, running around the backfield trying to get yards because the blocking was atrocious. Throwing td passes. Disappearing into the line and reappearing downfield for long gain. Catching swing passes for tds. Blocking huge linebackers so the QBs can complete passes. Hell, the one run against Kansas City where he knocked tackler after tackler off him If you say Gale was more fun too Watch, then Payton was even more fun because he had a longer career giving more 'fun to watch" plays. Gale's fun to watch tape would is 2/3 shorter than Walters and 1/2 as fun. Walter was just a better all around football player. PERIOD

Na.

 

[63bears40]

THIS

The guy was Jamal Charles or LeSean McCoy. He was arguably the best of his time, but nobody knows whether he would have put up legendary numbers. If McCoy blew out his knee tomorrow, people would say the same shit, and vastly overstate his legend.

He's not Payton or Barry Sanders.

Sayers played in pretty much the same era as OJ Simpson, and his numbers don't even compare to his. I'm sorry, he was great, but the pompous ass talked up his legend so much that people actually buy into it.

Just curious Rich, Did Walter ever score 6 TDs in a game?

 

[leomaz]

just curious?

Just curious Rich, Did Walter ever score 6 TDs in a game?

Did Gale Sayers ever rush for 275 yards with the flu while having zero passing attack against a division opponents aimed on stopping only him?

 

[55briggs]

either way Sayers was a superstar in his day. if he coulda stayed healthy he would have been even better no doubt.

 

[55briggs]

not many players play that few of games and make it into the HOF.

 

[beardown07]

They were both awesome. I just wish I didn't have to hear Gale's fucking opinion on every stupid thing. I mean, give the guy a fucking management position already, maybe then it'll make sense that I have to give a shit about his opinion on matters.

 

[63bears40]

Did Gale Sayers ever rush for 275 yards with the flu while having zero passing attack against a division opponents aimed on stopping only him?

Not that I know of .
This is a debate that can go on forever .

 

[63bears40]

They were both awesome. I just wish I didn't have to hear Gale's fucking opinion on every stupid thing. I mean, give the guy a fucking management position already, maybe then it'll make sense that I have to give a shit about his opinion on matters.

I worshiped the guy as a kid , but , his words are meaningless unless they are about the Bears , then I will listen.

 

[leomaz]

how do you know? do you have some sort of magic ball?

either way Sayers was a superstar in his day. if he coulda stayed healthy he would have been even better no doubt.

The only problem is you cannot prove it.....all you can do is assume.

 

[NCChiFan]

The only problem is you cannot prove it.....all you can do is assume.

Na, even with his limited on field resume, Sayers was a hall of famer, without question. Hard to assume you could improve on that. Overall numbers sure, probably could have put up numbers that would have been right up there with the greats, but probably not like Brown. That dude was almost inhuman. He retired early in his prime, could you imagine what he would have had with a full career?

 

[63bears40]

Na, even with his limited on field resume, Sayers was a hall of famer, without question. Hard to assume you could improve on that. Overall numbers sure, probably could have put up numbers that would have been right up there with the greats, but probably not like Brown. That dude was almost inhuman. He retired early in his prime, could you imagine what he would have had with a full career?

I watched Brown destroy every D he faced.
It's hard to predict what Sayers (if healthy) or Brown could have done over a 12 yr. career .
I doubt the guy from Dallas or Walter would have matched them.
JMO Brown & Sayers were the 2 best RBs I've seen in my life time.

 

[leomaz]

injuries we his problem

I watched Brown destroy every D he faced.
It's hard to predict what Sayers (if healthy) or Brown could have done over a 12 yr. career .
I doubt the guy from Dallas or Walter would have matched them.
JMO Brown & Sayers were the 2 best RBs I've seen in my life time.

Jim Brown and Walter are closer than Gale would be to Walter. Gale Sayers woukd never have taken the beating Walter did. Gale Sayers woukd have never made it through a 16 game schedule.

 

[63bears40]

Jim Brown and Walter are closer than Gale would be to Walter. Gale Sayers woukd never have taken the beating Walter did. Gale Sayers woukd have never made it through a 16 game schedule.

Just gave my opinion . I loved Walter. But if Sayers lasted 12 yrs. I have no doubt they'd still be chasing him. Unless of course Brown played 12 yrs. also. The same could be said about many of the great backs that played the game .
Walter withstood the test of time. For which I give him kudos.
But if I to pick a RB in his prime for 1 game, and Brown was off the board . I'd take Gale.
Again just MO.