Any change in opinion?

[TrustMeIamRight]

Im sure any one of these GMs, offices or whatever could explain why you would consider trading up better than I could. Im not saying that they absolutely have to but I can understand if that's the plan. Dont you think they would try to trade up if there was another shut down CB in this draft? I think they like Mack, Barr and Gilbert though.

I would say absolutely they would trade up if a shutdown CB were in the this draft. I think everyone can agree though that a shutdown CB is much more valuable than a 3rd WR. As if a dominate DE or pro bowl caliber LB.

Basically all i'm saying is -- as the 3rd WR -- how much of an impact will any WR we draft actually have? Bush and Bell are still going to get their normal carries. No matter who we draft, they aren't going to take away throws to Calvin. We added Golden Tate, so he is going to see a lot of balls thrown his way and Pettigrew will still be used as an extension of the running game.

The most value a 3rd WR could bring to the Lions is give them depth if one of their top WRs are injured. In that case, I don't see it being necessary to trade up to get that, IMO.

 

[Microwahevo]

and no team is going to single cover CJ unless they have one of the elite CBs and even then he won't see a ton of single coverage.

Calvin is going to put up his yards no matter what. He is a freak. It isn't like, if the Lions drafted Watkins that Megatron is going to put up 2000 yards a year or teams are going to single cover him in the red zone.

Only way Calvin would see single coverage is if Watkins grew 4 inches and Detroit had basically two Calvin Johnson's on the team.

For me, it's not about Calvin producing any more than he already is. It's about teams not doubling/tripling him and getting beat the fuck up every game. The more playmakers we have on offense, the less CJ has to get beat up and can rely on others to help pick up the slack.

 

[RobBase]

For me, it's not about Calvin producing any more than he already is. It's about teams not doubling/tripling him and getting beat the fuck up every game. The more playmakers we have on offense, the less CJ has to get beat up and can rely on others to help pick up the slack.

Agreeing with a lot of your posts lately. Calvin has been getting beat the hell up the last few years, and if it keeps up, he won't have many elite ones left.

With that said, I don't think a WR in the first round is the answer to this issue. I think a stronger run game is the key.

 

[RobBase]

For example, if our RB's don't fumble way more than everyone else in the NFL again this year, maybe the Lions won't have to lean on Megatron so much.

 

[lionstop1]

Yeah, its not about getting CJ to produce more than he has, its more about helping him and creating more opportunity for him. All teams do when they play the Lions is focus on and try to kill CJ. Its obvious. Should the team continue to let that happen? Good, they signed Tate but what if they dont think that's enough?

 

[Thruthefog]

Me too. I hope the Lions trade up to aquire another player they won't be able to afford to keep.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

For me, it's not about Calvin producing any more than he already is. It's about teams not doubling/tripling him and getting beat the fuck up every game. The more playmakers we have on offense, the less CJ has to get beat up and can rely on others to help pick up the slack.

Calvin is going to face double teams every game regardless of who we draft or bring in. He is the best WR in football. Teams aren't going to game plan to stop Golden Tate or any rookie WR. So Calvin is going to get beat up -- that is why he is highest paid non-QB in football and why he puts up video game numbers even though every team game plans to try and stop him.

As far as giving the offense as many playmakers as possible. We have more weapons on offense than arguably every team but one (Denver) and we have them all signed for multiple years (Bush, Bell, Megatron, Tate, Pettigrew, Stafford are all signed for multiple years).

The offense only has one spot that is even up for grabs for a starter and that is the 3rd WR spot.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yeah, its not about getting CJ to produce more than he has, its more about helping him and creating more opportunity for him. All teams do when they play the Lions is focus on and try to kill CJ. Its obvious. Should the team continue to let that happen? Good, they signed Tate but what if they dont think that's enough?

As I just said -- it doesn't matter who we bring in. We could bring in any WR in the NFL and guess which guy would be facing double teams every game??? Calvin Johnson. The reason is -- there is only one Calvin Johnson in the NFL.

Teams are going to go after him and do whatever they can to stop him.

As far as if the Lions don't think bringing in Tate is enough for the offense -- I will say for the 100th time -- we only have one spot on offense for the skill positions that isn't signed to a multi-year deal. We just had a conversation about the production of Detroit's RBs (they put up 2700 yards combined last year), we have the best WR in football, we signed the 2nd best FA WR in Golden Tate to a big contract, we also re-signed Pettigrew.

How much does a team possibly need on offense?

 

[tpaulus_2]

As I just said -- it doesn't matter who we bring in. We could bring in any WR in the NFL and guess which guy would be facing double teams every game??? Calvin Johnson. The reason is -- there is only one Calvin Johnson in the NFL.

Teams are going to go after him and do whatever they can to stop him.

As far as if the Lions don't think bringing in Tate is enough for the offense -- I will say for the 100th time -- we only have one spot on offense for the skill positions that isn't signed to a multi-year deal. We just had a conversation about the production of Detroit's RBs (they put up 2700 yards combined last year), we have the best WR in football, we signed the 2nd best FA WR in Golden Tate to a big contract, we also re-signed Pettigrew.

How much does a team possibly need on offense?

We still need help at WR in a bad way. Not bad enough that we have to be locked into one in the top ten, but we still need to (hopefully, at least) add the guy who will be our 3rd WR come opening day.

Given that Lombardi plans to adapt New Orleans' offense, expect a fair amount of 4 WR sets, and probably more 5 WR sets then we've seen in years. That's the biggest thing I've noticed watching New Orleans is how multiple their offense is. New England is the same way. They'll go 4 wide, 5 wide, Jumbo, full-house, etc... on any given series.

With that in mind we need to improve our 3rd WR. Imo, the guys we have (Ross, Durham, Ogletree, Fuller, maybe Broyles, but probably not till later in the season) are fine to battle it our for the 4 through 6 spots, but we need to improve at the #3 spot. And the 3rd OLB, #1 CB, and LDE....

 

[lionstop1]

How much does a team possibly need on offense?

Im not sure what you have been watching TrustmeImright, but the great majority of teams in the league are trying to load up as much as they can on offense. Even the team everyone believes only focuses on defense-Seattle. They had Rice, a whole slew of RBs, Tate and signed Harvin. Throw Wilson in there too. They attempted having a great offense.

I can make an arguement for just about every team with this.

The 49ers? Yep. Giants? Yep. Steelers? Yep. Cowboys? Yep. Chiefs? Yep. Colts? Yep. Raiders? Yep.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

How much does a team possibly need on offense?

Im not sure what you have been watching TrustmeImright, but the great majority of teams in the league are trying to load up as much as they can on offense. Even the team everyone believes only focuses on defense-Seattle. They had Rice, a whole slew of RBs, Tate and signed Harvin. Throw Wilson in there too. They attempted having a great offense.

I can make an arguement for just about every team with this.

The 49ers? Yep. Giants? Yep. Steelers? Yep. Cowboys? Yep. Chiefs? Yep. Colts? Yep. Raiders? Yep.

Seattle drafted Wilson in the 3rd round. Golden Tate was drafted in the 2nd round 4 years ago. The last time Seattle spent a 1st round pick on an offensive skill position player was 2001 when they drafted Koren Robinson.

The last 10 years -- here is what they have drafted with their 1st pick of the draft. 2 of them are 2nd round picks, as they must have traded away their 1st (as they did for Harvin).

3 DB, 2 DE, 2 OT, 1 C, 1 LB and 1 RB (last year in the 2nd round).

I realize every team would love a great offense, but teams like Seattle and SF can afford to try and draft a great offense because they already have one of the top defenses.

How are these other teams trying to build the type of offense the Lions already have?!?! The Steelers let Mike Wallace walk and sign with Miami. They let Emanuel Stewart (sp) walk and sign with Denver. The Giants let both Bradshaw and that bruiser running back go, as well as Hakeem Nicks this year.

The Colts? Their best WR last year was a 4th round pick --TY Hilton. They tried to bring in a running game by trading a 1st round pick for Richardson. The rest of the Colts offense is a mish mash of players.

How many teams have a #1 pick at QB, a #2 pick at RB, a #2 pick at WR, a #20 pick at TE, to go along with a 2nd round pick at WR? Our offense is loaded already.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

We still need help at WR in a bad way. Not bad enough that we have to be locked into one in the top ten, but we still need to (hopefully, at least) add the guy who will be our 3rd WR come opening day.

Given that Lombardi plans to adapt New Orleans' offense, expect a fair amount of 4 WR sets, and probably more 5 WR sets then we've seen in years. That's the biggest thing I've noticed watching New Orleans is how multiple their offense is. New England is the same way. They'll go 4 wide, 5 wide, Jumbo, full-house, etc... on any given series.

With that in mind we need to improve our 3rd WR. Imo, the guys we have (Ross, Durham, Ogletree, Fuller, maybe Broyles, but probably not till later in the season) are fine to battle it our for the 4 through 6 spots, but we need to improve at the #3 spot. And the 3rd OLB, #1 CB, and LDE....

New Orleans goes 4 wide, but it is 3 WRs and then Jimmy Graham. The overwhelming majority of NO offense is throwing to the RBs and TE. All of NO's wide receivers combined only had like 200 yards more than Calvin Johnson had on his own.

New Orleans 3rd WR had 37 catches for 457 yards (Lance Moore).

I do agree we need to improve our #3 WR spot -- I just don't think it is something we should spend a top 10 draft pick on, as we already have more weapons on offense than almost every team. Plus, with a draft that is extremely deep at the WR position, we could find a 3rd or 4th round pick and it'd be an upgrade over w hat we have to use in the #3 spot.

Edited to add -- I missed Kenny Stills, so they had like 800 more than Calvin, my apologies.

 

[lionstop1]

Lol. Tate hasn't played one down for the Lions, yet the offense is loaded? Everyone here said our RBs aren't good, but our offense is loaded? Pettigrew barely can score 5 tds and the offense is loaded? CJ has to go for 2000 yards but the offense is loaded? Take Calvin off the line-up and this squad is kind of weak.

We just see things much differently.

 

[RobBase]

Lol. Tate hasn't played one down for the Lions, yet the offense is loaded? Everyone here said our RBs aren't good, but our offense is loaded? Pettigrew barely can score 5 tds and the offense is loaded? CJ has to go for 2000 yards but the offense is loaded? Take Calvin off the line-up and this squad is kind of weak.

We just see things much differently.

They are loaded according to Mayhew. He signed these guys. The fans might feel differently, but ya, Tate + new contract Pettigrew + clean slate Broyles + clean slate Leshoure + new contract Bell + Bush + new contract Stafford + CJ = the O is loaded in Mayhew's eyes.

He obliviously doesn't look at Tate and think "AAAAAAAAHAHAHA, Tate hasn't played one down for us!?" or "Pettigrew can barely score 5 TD's". if he did he wouldn't have signed them both to long contracts.

So ya, Mike is right. Mayhew thinks he has a loaded offense. Mayhew also think the Lions will win the North this year and make the playoffs so......

 

[broncosmitty]

Nobody said they weren't good. Just that they aren't "elite" or the best or whatever you Kreton and TPaul were trying to convince yourselves and everyone else of.

 

[broncosmitty]

They are loaded according to Mayhew. He signed these guys. The fans might feel differently, but ya, Tate + new contract Pettigrew + clean slate Broyles + clean slate Leshoure + new contract Bell + Bush + new contract Stafford + CJ = the O is loaded in Mayhew's eyes.

He obliviously doesn't look at Tate and think "AAAAAAAAHAHAHA, Tate hasn't played one down for us!?" or "Pettigrew can barely score 5 TD's". if he did he wouldn't have signed them both to long contracts.

So ya, Mike is right. Mayhew thinks he has a loaded offense. Mayhew also think the Lions will win the North this year and make the playoffs so......

Mayhew and Lewand even told us the offense was stacked. That's why coaches were blowin' up their phone begging to come to Detroit. Same reason they hired an OC that was about to get his ass canned. True Story.

 

[lionstop1]

Got dammit, I never said they were the best.

 

[RobBase]

Mayhew and Lewand even told us the offense was stacked. That's why coaches were blowin' up their phone begging to come to Detroit. Same reason they hired an OC that was about to get his ass canned. True Story.

Tony Dungy on Detroit Lions coaching vacancy: 'That's the job I would want' (if I wanted a job) | MLive.com

If Bill Cowher wanted to coach, he'd be the Lions HC right now. Team is stacked.

 

[RobBase]

Got dammit, I never said they were the best.

We know, you said they could be the best. But they did lead the league in fumbles by a very wide margin in 2013, so I think that is the big hang up heading into 2014.

 

[broncosmitty]

Got dammit, I never said they were the best.

You asked why nobody ever talked about them being the best. I simply stated why. 78 pages later, people quit arguing with me.