Another Gonzaga Discussion

[ericd7633]

This clown is still talking? Dude disappears for two months after Zona loses to Butler, and magically reappears the same day Zona beats UCLA. Not only a hypocrite, but a fucking fair whether fan to boot.

 

[Quiller]

I am knew to this thread/forum. I have been watching basketball for a very very long time... Mostly I'm a UClA FAN but for the last 7 years been following Gonzaga as well. Reading this thread makes me smile.

1st I would like someone to mention anyone "currently" playing college ball who has taken a team on his back to win a tittle.. that is a very very small list of ONE maybe Vill's-Hart. So saying well he hasn't done anything in March in the past applies to EVERYONE right NOW.

What started me looking for forums was the whole SOS thing... talk about Gonzaga's "bad" schedule, and also UCLA for that matter, mostly about Gonzaga not staying on 1 line if they loose the tittle game, and UCLA being on the 4 line... while Butler is a 3

Quick metrics.. RPI average ratings of the following teams top five, top ten and total non-conference games with their listed NSS
top 5 top 10 total NCSS
Gonzaga 34 106 139 72 ??
Virginia 48 115 136 48 ??
Baylor 17 44 107 7
butler 32 90 124 13 ??
purdue 50 112 164 139
Okl st 35 99 134 34 ??
Oregon 55 104 133 71 ??
Arizona 42 91 135 27 ??
UCLA 59 139 179 288
Snt Mary 64 137 151 49 ??


I just had to run the numbers because it didn't make sense.. except for Baylor all the rest actual scores seem to have nothing to do with who they are actually playing... I still can not comprehend why Oklahoma St, Arizona and Butler have such "good" NCSS when they are basically playing the same schedule as Gonzaga and Oregon I listed top five/top ten break downs because in my mind you shouldn't be expected to play more then 5-10 quality teams out side your conference.. this is where UCLA breaks down they do okay playing 3-4 good teams but the other 6-7 are really really weak.

From the eye test as far as the Zags go in the tourney to me I can see them making a deep run. I have yet to see a team that is head and shoulders better .. but they really will need Mathews to be on from 3 against the lower seeds. Mathews defense also might be a problem, but if Melson subs for him and is on target from deep then they will be okay as well. A major question will be just how effective will John Williams be... if he can rebound like he has lately then that will be huge. Match up wise a team that is really good from 3 can give them problems especially if they play pick and roll a lot. as does a team that have at least 3 to 4 6'9" or taller athletic players who can match up depth wise with Zag's front line and rebound well on the offensive end. A 4 or a Center who can shoot three's will also hurt them. Still one upside to Gonzaga is Perkins has really been just coasting in conference play.. he was a key contributor against Zona, Florida and Iowa st and has enough experience and skill he could turn it on in the tourney to make a very deadly back court. AND those that think Nigel-Williams Goss doesn't deserve the hype well you allowed your opinion but he IMO deserves it as his game translates very well to the tourney as he has many faucets.. shots the 3 and can post up-drive that make him hard to stop.

 

[BigDGarciaFan]

I think Gonzaga will make it as far to the NCAA Final Four or Final Four Championship game this year. this is their year to make that appearence.

 

[douggie]

BYU is giving them all they want tonight!

 

[douggie]

Tie game 3:22

 

[The Oldtimer]

I think Gonzaga will make it as far to the NCAA Final Four or Final Four Championship game this year. this is their year to make that appearence.

It all depends on what bracket they are in.

 

[douggie]

BYU leads less than a minute

 

[BigDGarciaFan]

Oh no don't let it be!!!

 

[douggie]

Down goes #1 Gonzaga!

 

[bksballer89]

Much less pressure on the Zags now. This will help them

 

[Hitman Hart]

Gonzaga's fans yelling "NIT" at BYU just now is one of the lamest chants I have ever heard.

 

[douggie]

Zags were getting anything they wanted first half. BYU hangs around and hangs around. Downs the Zags.

 

[jontaejones]

Bye bye #1 seed

 

[The Derski]

Arizona couldve put themselves in the drivers seat for a 1 seed tonight..... still glad Gonzaga lost. Missed opportunity though.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Of all the teams to lose to Gonzaga, why did it have to be BYU? One of the only teams in the country I like to see them beat up on and they lose. Fuck you. Really.

 

[Banned 10x]

oops

 

[Gopherfan84]

oops

In other top headlines:
Dewey Beats Truman
Patriots Complete Perfect Season
Clinton Beats Trump

 

[tducey]

Yeah, they lost last night. Still they've had a great season and will be a tough out this coming tournament.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I am knew to this thread/forum. I have been watching basketball for a very very long time... Mostly I'm a UClA FAN but for the last 7 years been following Gonzaga as well. Reading this thread makes me smile.

1st I would like someone to mention anyone "currently" playing college ball who has taken a team on his back to win a tittle.. that is a very very small list of ONE maybe Vill's-Hart. So saying well he hasn't done anything in March in the past applies to EVERYONE right NOW.

What started me looking for forums was the whole SOS thing... talk about Gonzaga's "bad" schedule, and also UCLA for that matter, mostly about Gonzaga not staying on 1 line if they loose the tittle game, and UCLA being on the 4 line... while Butler is a 3

Quick metrics.. RPI average ratings of the following teams top five, top ten and total non-conference games with their listed NSS
top 5 top 10 total NCSS
Gonzaga 34 106 139 72 ??
Virginia 48 115 136 48 ??
Baylor 17 44 107 7
butler 32 90 124 13 ??
purdue 50 112 164 139
Okl st 35 99 134 34 ??
Oregon 55 104 133 71 ??
Arizona 42 91 135 27 ??
UCLA 59 139 179 288
Snt Mary 64 137 151 49 ??


I just had to run the numbers because it didn't make sense.. except for Baylor all the rest actual scores seem to have nothing to do with who they are actually playing... I still can not comprehend why Oklahoma St, Arizona and Butler have such "good" NCSS when they are basically playing the same schedule as Gonzaga and Oregon I listed top five/top ten break downs because in my mind you shouldn't be expected to play more then 5-10 quality teams out side your conference.. this is where UCLA breaks down they do okay playing 3-4 good teams but the other 6-7 are really really weak.

From the eye test as far as the Zags go in the tourney to me I can see them making a deep run. I have yet to see a team that is head and shoulders better .. but they really will need Mathews to be on from 3 against the lower seeds. Mathews defense also might be a problem, but if Melson subs for him and is on target from deep then they will be okay as well. A major question will be just how effective will John Williams be... if he can rebound like he has lately then that will be huge. Match up wise a team that is really good from 3 can give them problems especially if they play pick and roll a lot. as does a team that have at least 3 to 4 6'9" or taller athletic players who can match up depth wise with Zag's front line and rebound well on the offensive end. A 4 or a Center who can shoot three's will also hurt them. Still one upside to Gonzaga is Perkins has really been just coasting in conference play.. he was a key contributor against Zona, Florida and Iowa st and has enough experience and skill he could turn it on in the tourney to make a very deadly back court. AND those that think Nigel-Williams Goss doesn't deserve the hype well you allowed your opinion but he IMO deserves it as his game translates very well to the tourney as he has many faucets.. shots the 3 and can post up-drive that make him hard to stop.

Welcome to the boards!

To begin with your first point, I want to clarify what I wrote earlier. I stated that I didn't think that NWG should be considered someone going into March that I think could carry his team to the FF or NC. My two reasons were because he has not carried his team to a win outside of the state of Washington against a ranked team (I guess we're modifying that now that ISU is barely in, though still a first weekend team), AND, that he has never even played in March. My position isn't that someone needs to have already carried their team deep in March to qualify. I also see "carry" as leading the team in points, have other major contributions, and even be able to make last second shots, or key free throws as well.

But since you brought it up, and Mr Hockey asked earlier, I would say that my list would be in no particular order:

Hart - I think we can all agree, right?

Mason III - He's definitely put his team on his shoulders against top teams this year. He's hit a game-winner against Duke on a neutral court, and making some important free throws in their win at UK. He scored over 20 in both of those games. He also went 23 points with 8 assists in their win at Baylor. That was good for more than 1/3 of their points and almost half of their assists.

Brooks - Brooks had a couple of nice game-winning shots this season (one against UCLA) but the UCLA win was at home and Cal isn't ranked. With him I'm still mostly impressed with what he did last year (and how he carried Oregon to a win in McKale, and to beat Duke to advance to the EE last year. He scored 24 in McKale, and Had 22 points with 6 assists against Duke. Brooks also carried Oregon in the round before with 25 against St. Joes. He's better than last year, so I think he's on the list.

All three of those guys have played against top 30 SOS, have shouldered their teams on neutral or opposing courts against solid ranked teams and have played into the second half of March. They have all shown me that they have done what needs to be done in similar situations, that they could do it in the second weekend in March to at least get their teams to a FF.

For my dark horses, I'd go with some guys who have still done more for their teams against solid ranked teams away from home (and have solid March experience) like Grayson Allen, Justin Jackson, and London Pallantes. I don't have near as much confidence in those 3, but I think they might be able to handle it.

Again, players surprise in March all the time. But if going in, I'm looking at who I think can carry their team against the best away from home, I look for who has done it before. That's all I'm saying.

Finally, I just want to reiterate to you that I think GU is a solid team. They are in my top ten for sure. But they are not one of the 6-8 teams right now that I would say going into March that I would say is a FF team. They may surprise me, but I don't think they can handle beating 3 tourney teams in 9 days with two against a top 15 team and a top ten team in 48 hours. They've only played 2 top 15 teams all year, and that will have been 25-30 games earlier.

If you think they can do it, you are 100% entitled to think it. It's not a bad bet. All I'm saying is that I don't see it. I think the EE is their ceiling. I should be able to say that too, right? Obviously I've given actual statistics and history to show why I think it. I'm not stating a completely irrational position with no support, right?

The only difference is that you think they can make it one more round than I do. I think it can definitely be a well-positioned disagreement by both sides.