Altuve/Stanton win MVP

[DirtDirtDirt]

One's a 2nd baseman. One's a right fielder. There's a pretty big difference between the two positions offensively.

I dont care really, everyone in this area knows they will never give an award to a Yankee

But MVP should be MVP

It shouldnt go to a guy that "hits well for his size"


Not to mention Judge was a sensational fielder this season, and Altuve is not

 

[PolarVortex]

I dont care really, everyone in this area knows they will never give an award to a Yankee

But MVP should be MVP

It shouldnt go to a guy that "hits well for his size"


Not to mention Judge was a sensational fielder this season, and Altuve is not

So bittuh. Altuve whoops Judge.....again.

 

[navamind]

I dont care really, everyone in this area knows they will never give an award to a Yankee

But MVP should be MVP

It shouldnt go to a guy that "hits well for his size"


Not to mention Judge was a sensational fielder this season, and Altuve is not

It has nothing to do with size, it has to do with a 2nd baseman being one of the best hitters in the league at a position that isn't known for offensive production. In fact, Altuve's 2017 season is among the best at the position historically.

Also, 9 DRS and 6.3 UZR isn't "sensational" in a corner OF spot. It's above average and I agree that Judge was a better defender than Altuve is, but I'm not sure that advantage defensively makes up for the fact that Altuve plays a much more difficult position.

The average 2B in 2017 hit .263/.329/.409 (94 wRC+). The average RF hit .256/.332/.443 (103 wRC+). Right fielders historically are much better offensively than 2B (save for last year when they were equal in wRC+, but that was just an odd year at 2B).

Not saying that Judge wasn't a deserving candidate, I think both were equally deserving. But you can't just compare offensive stats without taking position into account.

 

[PolarVortex]

Nope that's it. Schmidt, Stargell, and Morgan twice. McCovey won in 1969, barely beating out Tom Seaver. Both had 11 first place votes. Stargell came somewhat close to doing it twice. He finished 2nd in 1971 but only had 3 first-place votes

Anyone who could hit 40+ homers playing half their games in Forbes/Three Rivers deserves to win the MVP. There is a story about Willie Mays going 0-4 in Forbes and hitting the ball 400+ feet in all four at bats.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

It has nothing to do with size, it has to do with a 2nd baseman being one of the best hitters in the league at a position that isn't known for offensive production.

Also, 9 DRS and 6.3 UZR isn't "sensational" in a corner OF spot. It's above average and I agree that Judge was a better defender than Altuve is, but I'm not sure that advantage defensively makes up for the fact that Altuve plays a much more difficult position.

The average 2B in 2017 hit .263/.329/.409 (94 wRC+). The average RF hit .256/.332/.443 (103 wRC+). Right fielders historically are much better offensively than 2B (save for last year when they were equal in wRC+, but that was just an odd year at 2B).

Sorry, the "More important position", even being worse defensively, isnt enough to make up this difference:

 

[navamind]

Sorry, the "More important position", even being worse defensively, isnt enough to make up this difference:

View attachment 169674

"Please love my Yankees"

 

[soxfan1468927]

Sorry, the "More important position", even being worse defensively, isnt enough to make up this difference:

View attachment 169674

I disagree. I don't think there is a major offensive difference when you take into account baserunning. So I think the position does make up for it.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I dont care really, everyone in this area knows they will never give an award to a Yankee

But MVP should be MVP

It shouldnt go to a guy that "hits well for his size"


Not to mention Judge was a sensational fielder this season, and Altuve is not

What player has not gotten an award because he's a Yankee?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

"Please love my Yankees"

Yeah, blow me, if that graph was in reverse and the Yankee won it, youd be losing your shit all over the place

Youre no different than the voters

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

What player has not gotten an award because he's a Yankee?

jeter over Morneau (of course I say this because Pedroia won over Morneau)

Pettitte over Hentgen

Judge over Altuve

3 that come to mind

 

[soxfan1468927]

jeter over Morneau (of course I say this because Pedroia won over Morneau)

Pettitte over Hentgen

Judge over Altuve

3 that come to mind

1. Jeter over Morneau is the only legit one. He deserved it more than Morneau, but Santana or Mauer deserved it over both anyway.

2. Pettitte over Hentgen is absolutely laughable. Someone else brought this up on twitter. Pettitte and Hentgen gave up the same amount of earned runs, and Hentgen pitched 44 more innings. So if Pettitte pitched 44 shutout innings, he would somehow be worse than if he just didn't pitch at all.

 

[navamind]

jeter over Morneau (of course I say this because Pedroia won over Morneau)

Pettitte over Hentgen

Judge over Altuve

3 that come to mind

That has nothing to do with anti-Yankeeism, that has to do with idiot voters thinking triple crown stats matter. There were a plethora of candidates more deserving than Morneau. Jeter was more deserving than him for sure, but I'm not sure he was better than Grady Sizemore, Johan or Mauer.

also, Hentagen had an ERA 0.65 runs lower and pitched 44 more innings than Pettitte. Lol, that is not a snub.

Jesus you're such a homer.

 

[StanMarsh51]

jeter over Morneau (of course I say this because Pedroia won over Morneau)

Pettitte over Hentgen

Judge over Altuve

3 that come to mind

Pettitte didn't deserve it over Hengton...




Jeter was a better candidate than Morneau in 2006, but you could argue that Mauer was as good, if not better than Jeter.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Pettitte didn't deserve it over Hengton...

View attachment 169676


Jeter was a better candidate than Morneau in 2006, but you could argue that Mauer was as good, if not better than Jeter.

The fact that Pettitte received 11 first place votes was a joke.

 

[PolarVortex]

Sorry, the "More important position", even being worse defensively, isnt enough to make up this difference:

View attachment 169674

How about disappearing for 30% of the season and striking out 4958585 times during that disappearance? Altuve hit .298 and had an .850 in his worst offensive month of the season. He went without a hit in back-to-back games only four times all season. His consistency is what won him the award. Sorry Dirt, but an MVP candidate can't take 30% of the season off.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

That has nothing to do with anti-Yankeeism, that has to do with idiot voters thinking triple crown stats matter. There were a plethora of candidates more deserving than Morneau. Jeter was more deserving than him for sure, but I'm not sure he was better than Grady Sizemore, Johan or Mauer.

also, Hentagen had an ERA 0.65 runs lower and pitched 44 more innings than Pettitte. Lol, that is not a snub.

Jesus you're such a homer.

yeah, Im a homer, and you happen to fall on the anti-Yankee side of every single debate that ever takes place on this board

I mean, whats the difference

 

[StanMarsh51]

yeah, Im a homer, and you happen to fall on the anti-Yankee side of every single debate that ever takes place on this board

I mean, whats the difference

I'm a Yankee fan, but he's right...

There's no way you can logically say that Pettitte should've won the '96 AL Cy.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

How about disappearing for 30% of the season and striking out 4958585 times during that disappearance? Altuve hit .298 and had an .850 in his worst offensive month of the season. He went without a hit in back-to-back games only four times all season. His consistency is what won him the award. Sorry Dirt, but an MVP candidate can't take 30% of the season off.

Strikeouts mean ZERO if you are getting on base more than the other guy

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I'm a Yankee fan, but he's right...

There's no way you can logically say that Pettitte deserve the '96 AL Cy....

Thats fair, its just one that popped up in my head as very debatable at the time, didnt have the numbers in front of me

 

[StanMarsh51]

Thats fair, its just one that popped up in my head as very debatable at the time, didnt have the numbers in front of me

Back to the main point, position does matter - that's why guys like Larkin, Ripken, Pudge, Kent, Rollins, Pedroia have MVPs despite not having the best numbers in the league. Looking at Jeter, he had top 3 finishes in 1998 and 2009 when numbers wise he wasn't top 10 in most major categories (but him being a SS helped).

Regarding Altuve, his 2017 might've been the best offensive 2B season in at least the past 30 years. That speaks volumes as to how historically great he was.