Altuve/Stanton win MVP

[Used 2 B Hu]

NL MVP was really tight and the voting reflected that. Stanton did lead all position players in both baseball-reference and fangraphs WAR. My vote would have gone to Arenado, but it was really close. And I really had to dig to find major differences. One of the things I found was Arenado's play against winning teams and his clutch play put him over the top for me.

For a comparison between Arenado and Stanton in terms of those two aspects:

Stanton vs teams with a losing record: 436 plate appearances, 1.106 OPS
Stanton vs teams with a winning record: 256 plate appearances, .842 OPS

Arenado vs teams with a losing record: 385 plate appearances, .953 OPS
Arenado vs teams with a winning record: 295 plate appearances, .967 OPS

Stanton with 2 outs and runners in scoring position: .215/.338/.385/.722
Arenado with 2 outs and runners in scoring position: .359/.481/.797/1.278

And due largely to his play in high-leverage situations, Arenado's WPA was 4.9 to Stanton's 4.8. They were 1 and 2 in the league.

And I understand that Arenado plays at Coors, but his road tOPS+ (which measures his OPS in that split compared to his total OPS) was 86 compared to 85 for Stanton.

There are a few other things, and I won't dig this deep into the numbers unless it's really close, and this year it was.

Whoa, whoa, man! Just say "Miami could have finished 20 games back WITHOUT Stanton"

 

[Mike A. S.]

This is the 3rd straight year that at least one of the MVPs came from a team that didn't make the playoffs.

2015 Harper
2016 Trout
2017 Stanton

I'm ok with that. I think the "playing for a contender" part is overrated and should mostly only be used in a tiebreaker sort of a scenario. Like if it's really close between two players. Then maybe the player on a better team should be the winner.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Whoa, whoa, man! Just say "Miami could have finished 20 games back WITHOUT Stanton"

I don't really care too much about that. I just look at MVP as the player who helped his team win the most. And sometimes that player is still on a losing team.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I would assume that

Of course, maybe we don't make the Series because we have a shortage of MVP-type players, but still...

BRB...

 

[soxfan1468927]

I'm ok with that. I think the "playing for a contender" part is overrated and should mostly only be used in a tiebreaker sort of a scenario. Like if it's really close between two players. Then maybe the player on a better team should be the winner.

Yeah it looks to me like that is the way the writers are starting to think. The crazy thing about this year is that the top 2 in the NL were on losing teams. Not sure when that has happened.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Both winners were deserving... I probably would have given the NL MVP to Goldy, but I cant argue against giving it to Stanton... Very surprised Goldy was 3rd...

 

[StanMarsh51]

I'm ok with that. I think the "playing for a contender" part is overrated and should mostly only be used in a tiebreaker sort of a scenario. Like if it's really close between two players. Then maybe the player on a better team should be the winner.

With baseball, the contender argument shouldn't be as important as with other sports because in baseball, a player's chances are relatively fixed (ie - a hitter gets only 1/9 of their team's plate appearances, doesn't pitch, and in theory might only be involved with 1/9 of defensive plays. It's not like basketball or football where a player could have an impact on the majority of offensive possessions and hence a greater influence on their team's W-L record.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

With baseball, the contender argument shouldn't be as important as with other sports because in baseball, a player's chances are relatively fixed (ie - a hitter gets only 1/9 of their team's plate appearances, doesn't pitch, and in theory might only be involved with 1/9 of defensive plays. It's not like basketball or football where a player could have an impact on the majority of offensive possessions and hence a greater influence on their team's W-L record.

I disagree that making the playoffs shouldn't be as important... I still think it should be a significant factor... Just like EVERY other stat, it should be included... The question just is, how much...

Whether it is something or not, whether it is mental, or if there really is some statistical proof, playing for a team that matters is different than playing for a sucky mcducky team...

Maybe it is as simple as pitchers don't bring their A-Game to teams that don't matter... I do think there is something...

 

[soxfan1468927]

I disagree that making the playoffs shouldn't be as important... I still think it should be a significant factor... Just like EVERY other stat, it should be included... The question just is, how much...

Whether it is something or not, whether it is mental, or if there really is some statistical proof, playing for a team that matters is different than playing for a sucky mcducky team...

Maybe it is as simple as pitchers don't bring their A-Game to teams that don't matter... I do think there is something...

Well his point was that it shouldn't be as important as it is in other sports. You don't agree with that?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Altuve also becomes the shortest player to win the award.. I believe

I'm sure that's true.

On SportsCenter this morning, they mentioned that there were 70 kids that participated in the Little League World Series tournament that are taller than Altuve.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Well his point was that it shouldn't be as important as it is in other sports. You don't agree with that?

honestly, I don't know...

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

AL MVP
1. Jose Altuve
2. Aaron Judge
3. Jose Ramirez
4. Mike Trout
5. Francisco Lindor
6. Mookie Betts
7. Corey Kluber
8. Andrelton Simmons
9. Chris Sale
10. Nelson Cruz
11. Brian Dozier
12. Jonathan Schoop
13. George Springer
t-14. Jose Abreu
t-14. Eric Hosmer
16. Justin Upton
17. Carlos Correa
18. Byron Buxton
19. Marwin Gonzalez
t-20. Edwin Encarnacion
t-20. Didi Gregorius
t-22. Khris Davis
t-22. Josh Donaldson
t-22. Gary Sanchez

Indians:

2 of the top 5
3 of the top 7
4 of the top 20

Not bad.

 

[soxfan1468927]

honestly, I don't know...

Well when you compare the impact of an NBA player or a QB to the overall performance of a team, would you say that a single MLB player has more or less impact than a single NBA player or QB?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Indians:

2 of the top 5
3 of the top 7
4 of the top 20

Not bad.

I'd rather have a World Series

<slams cock and balls in desk drawer, cries>

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Well when you compare the impact of an NBA player or a QB to the overall performance of a team, would you say that a single MLB player has more or less impact than a single NBA player or QB?

of course an MVP in basketball and football are more valuable and harder to replace to their teams than in baseball... But I am not sure if playing for a winning/losing team is any harder or easier in any sport...

 

[soxfan1468927]

Indians:

2 of the top 5
3 of the top 7
4 of the top 20

Not bad.

I'm trying to find the last time a team had 3 players in the top 7 for AL MVP. 2 out of the top 5 was done in 2012 by the Rangers (Beltre/Hamilton), and 4 out of the top 20 was done in 2015 by the Blue Jays (Donaldson, Bautista, Encarnacion, and Price).

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Very surprised Goldy was 3rd...

Me too. Should have been lower.

 

[soxfan1468927]

of course an MVP in basketball and football are more valuable and harder to replace to their teams than in baseball... But I am not sure if playing for a winning/losing team is any harder or easier in any sport...

Well I don't think the question is whether it's any harder or easier, but more is it more important in determining value.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

sucky mcducky team

 

[soxfan1468927]

Indians:

2 of the top 5
3 of the top 7
4 of the top 20

Not bad.

Found it, Twins in 2006 with Morneau (1st), Mauer (6th), and Santana (7th).