Alex Smiths future

[EKmane]

Yep. They stay in their caves while the team is in contention for the Superbowl, then emerge as soon as the team loses, with the usual line that any old dick could do what Smith does.

I think you should relax, homie. I'm not sure who you're talking about, but I've been around for years. I've been going to games and wearing gear since the mid 80's. I found out about the ESPN boards in 07 (EKbaby27), though I wasn't on it every season due to prison sentences.

The point is, you could look back as far as you want if you have questions what my lines are or were. I ain't never been in no cave, I stay active. Where you been?

 

[Ray_Dogg]

6 per with incentives is 6 per with incentives. It is not 8. If in years 3 and 4 of his contract he is battling Kaep for playing time I don't want him making 8. Hence the incentives. There is a big difference.

I think if we offer 5-6 mill a year for 3-4 years we will get him easily. I'd go 4 years at 5 mill per year with major incentives tied into it...including starts, playoff wins, regular season wins, etc. No stats incentives though...

OK I took the above as 6 mill with incentives which would come out to 8.

 

[deep9er]

Peyton Manning's contract is around $18M right? isn't Brady around this level? what would Rodgers and Brees get if they were free agents?

the franchise tag is about $14.5M right?

so Alex Smith did play on the cheap this season. now that he's proven to be consistent including play-off games, $9M isn't so far fetched. both parties know its a win-win situation and we'll likely get a 'discount', but if you 'low ball' Alex and he decides to 'finger' the 49ers (he doesn't need the money), then what?

then we start one of these rookies and re-live all the turnovers till they become competent......assuming they even get to where Alex is now? then this defense won't have a chance defending short fields next two seasons.

then you same fans will say Jed was cheap and should've signed Alex Smith.

 

[EKmane]

You're guessing, just leave it at that......you haven't seen any of these backups play NFL football, so you have no idea.

The rationale that the coaching staff wouldn't go without an NFL-ready backup doesn't compute. They went without one from the first game of the season, and obviously preferred to have a young QB in the wings than a reliable veteran. This should be apparent.

You'd go with blind faith in one of the backups over what you know with Alex. Not mysterious, we see it here all the time. Very typical of the people that give him no credit.

How am I guessing? The FACT is that we never went out to grab a vet qb, that is a FACT. They brought one in, then felt they didn't need him, that is a FACT. I haven't seen any of their practices, true, that is a FACT. That means that I have to trust (as a long time die hard) that the staff is prepared, otherwise that would mean that there are waaayyy bigger problems than Alex.

Not just apparent, but the bolded is a FACT. You said it yourself, "from the first game of the season". Later down the road when it was a FACT that we were going to the playoffs they still felt comfortable with these two as the only other qb's.

I would go with blind faith in the staff, not a qb. I never said which qb should be the starter, that wouldn't be a FACT. I did say that I think Smith would be the right choice if his demands don't get out of hand, if so I think his weak ass production can be replaced. I'm basing this all on the coaching staff, I trust that they'll keep WHICHEVER QB out of harms way, as they did for Smith this season.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Like Mike Lombardi (usually kind of an idiot) said yesterday, you can feel comfortable with various amounts of money going to Smith......the more important factor is a way to get out of the contract. He's earned good money, considering what NFL QBs make, just ensure that he can be replaced with no big cost if a better opportunity comes along.

 

[Geraint]

Peyton Manning's contract is around $18M right? isn't Brady around this level? what would Rodgers and Brees get if they were free agents?

the franchise tag is about $14.5M right?

so Alex Smith did play on the cheap this season. now that he's proven to be consistent including play-off games, $9M isn't so far fetched. both parties know its a win-win situation and we'll likely get a 'discount', but if you 'low ball' Alex and he decides to 'finger' the 49ers (he doesn't need the money), then what?

then we start one of these rookies and re-live all the turnovers till they become competent......assuming they even get to where Alex is now? then this defense won't have a chance defending short fields next two seasons.

then you same fans will say Jed was cheap and should've signed Alex Smith.

They will be too busy rejoicing if Smith leaves town because he never carried the team to a victory

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

EKMane....just LOL. You've never seen these guys play, you're guessing, you're giving them a very generous benefit of the doubt because of how you feel about Smith, and on top of it all you're trying to justify it based on some kind of tangential logic about the coaching staff.

Everyone here has seen this all before.....very common "anybody but Smith" logic. You're not the first to try these lines out.

 

[EKmane]

EKMane....just LOL. You've never seen these guys play, you're guessing, you're giving them a very generous benefit of the doubt because of how you feel about Smith, and on top of it all you're trying to justify it based on some kind of tangential logic about the coaching staff.

Everyone here has seen this all before.....very common "anybody but Smith" logic. You're not the first to try these lines out.

I think you have me confused? I haven't given these guys any credit, just the coaching staff. I think they can get either one of the hand picked rookies (who will be 2nd year players) to play as well as they got Alex Smith to play the first time they worked with him, the same way they made Josh Johnson a 5th round pick out of San Diego University, the same way Andrew Luck is touted the next great one. See the coincidence?

You're on your own with the anybody but Smith, I said I wouldn't be disappointed if he came back, just as long as his signing doesn't affect the signing of an impact player.

 

[deep9er]

Like Mike Lombardi (usually kind of an idiot) said yesterday, you can feel comfortable with various amounts of money going to Smith......the more important factor is a way to get out of the contract. He's earned good money, considering what NFL QBs make, just ensure that he can be replaced with no big cost if a better opportunity comes along.

no one wants to commit big money but we're in a tough spot? i'd think we'll give him a five year contract with the first three around $10M/season everything included. the last two years will be the fluff.

this doesn't mean Alex will be the unquestioned starter for three years, cause soon as someone proves enough 'readiness', he'll get his shot. we may or may not be stuck with money to Alex year 3, but we're in a tough spot NOW.

Alex Smith can lead this team to the play-offs next 2-3 seasons, i'll take this as opposed to 1) another vet QB; 2) starting CK "sight unseen"; or 3) trading up high to draft another rookie QB. these other three options are taking a chance we miss the play-offs next season, MAYBE even the one after?

paying him a little more is the lesser of the evils.

 

[deep9er]

I think you have me confused? I haven't given these guys any credit, just the coaching staff. I think they can get either one of the hand picked rookies (who will be 2nd year players) to play as well as they got Alex Smith to play the first time they worked with him, the same way they made Josh Johnson a 5th round pick out of San Diego University, the same way Andrew Luck is touted the next great one. See the coincidence?

You're on your own with the anybody but Smith, I said I wouldn't be disappointed if he came back, just as long as his signing doesn't affect the signing of an impact player.

not claiming CK or even Tolzien can't get as good as Alex Smith is now, but how long will it take? to think they'll play well enough to get the #2 seed and win a play-off game NEXT season...........is unrealistic. do we want to kill the great chemistry of this team? cause player by player have confirmed its one of the best.

in the bigger picture, the majority of 2nd round QB's don't pan out to what Alex proved this season.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I think they can get either one of the hand picked rookies (who will be 2nd year players) to play as well as they got Alex Smith to play the first time they worked with him

OK, you do appear rational so I'll try this one more time.....Alex Smith was not a lump of clay. He was a guy with various strengths and weaknesses, who had been through 6 NFL seasons, and you are not giving him enough credit for what he brought to the table. While the other guys may have some physical talents or skills comparable to Smith, mentally he is unusually tough and smart and this has helped them win many games this year.

Its true that a lot of Smith's weaknesses are glaring, while some of his strengths are intangible and subtle. But the late-game comebacks and leadership are largely a result of the trials and tribulations he's been though. Its not all Harbaugh, though he has been crucial. I think with some time, this staff can coach up young players....but to assume they can slot in next year is reckless, and again very disrespectful to Smith and what he was able to accomplish, IMO.

 

[EKmane]

OK, you do appear rational so I'll try this one more time.....Alex Smith was not a lump of clay. He was a guy with various strengths and weaknesses, who had been through 6 NFL seasons, and you are not giving him enough credit for what he brought to the table. While the other guys may have some physical talents or skills comparable to Smith, mentally he is unusually tough and smart and this has helped them win many games this year.

Its true that a lot of Smith's weaknesses are glaring, while some of his strengths are intangible and subtle. But the late-game comebacks and leadership are largely a result of the trials and tribulations he's been though. Its not all Harbaugh, though he has been crucial. I think with some time, this staff can coach up young players....but to assume they can slot in next year is reckless, and again very disrespectful to Smith and what he was able to accomplish, IMO.

The point is that I'm not sure if Alex can even replicate this season? The defense took us to the 2nd seed, not him. Without those 3 final drive strips by the defense who knows what would've happened? You're really giving him too much credit now. The whole conversation was not based on Alex isn't good enough to beat out two second year players, the conversation was based on an opinion that Alex isn't worth franchise qb money.

I haven't read one person comment on here that the others should be named the starter without even thinking about Smith. You probably need to read back through the thread.

It's funny to me that your whole opinion is based on a couple of 4th quarter throws (although the Saints game was legendary).

One thing I do know for sure, is that whoever the qb is, I am behind him 100%, and hope he becomes a Hall of Famer that leads his team to a 4 peat.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

It's funny to me that your whole opinion is based on a couple of 4th quarter throws (although the Saints game was legendary).

OK, now that's just fucking stupid. The Niners went 13-3, were a bad bounce from an NFC Championship, and Smith had a 90+ QB rating. And that's leaving aside his skill set, the lack of decent options, his comfort with the team and vice versa.......sorry, but I have to take back my rational comment.

I was thinking about this during the postgame show the other night.....how many times have we heard "finally Smith has a good game!". Seriously, at least 5 games this year were followed by "is this the game we've been waiting for?", and that's after numerous games in previous years. The problem, as far as I can tell, is people who are unable to assimilate new information effectively.....once they make a decision about somebody/something, they have a very hard time adjusting this judgment when new or different information is obtained. Smith sucks, period, and every time he does well its a surprise. If anyone is familiar with the Myers-Briggs psychology test stuff, this is one of the fundamentals of the J/P category.

 

[deep9er]

The point is that I'm not sure if Alex can even replicate this season? The defense took us to the 2nd seed, not him. Without those 3 final drive strips by the defense who knows what would've happened? You're really giving him too much credit now. The whole conversation was not based on Alex isn't good enough to beat out two second year players, the conversation was based on an opinion that Alex isn't worth franchise qb money.

I haven't read one person comment on here that the others should be named the starter without even thinking about Smith. You probably need to read back through the thread.

It's funny to me that your whole opinion is based on a couple of 4th quarter throws (although the Saints game was legendary).

One thing I do know for sure, is that whoever the qb is, I am behind him 100%, and hope he becomes a Hall of Famer that leads his team to a 4 peat.

don't recall anyone saying pay Alex Smith franchise money, believe franchise money is $14.5M?

think i predicted the most at $10M first three years of five?

 

[clyde_carbon]

EKMane....just LOL. You've never seen these guys play, you're guessing, you're giving them a very generous benefit of the doubt because of how you feel about Smith, and on top of it all you're trying to justify it based on some kind of tangential logic about the coaching staff.

Everyone here has seen this all before.....very common "anybody but Smith" logic. You're not the first to try these lines out.

Give me a fucking break. This is coming from a guy who has repeatedly, and vehemently, argued that systems are more important than QBs. You don't think Kap can muster the 29th ranked passing offense in Harbaugh's system?

Jesus fucking Christ. People are acting like Smith set the world ablaze in 2011. The only team that passed LESS than the 49ers was a team that run the option offense for much of the season.

I have no problem giving Alex credit for what he did and his improvement this year. But let's put everything back into perspective.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Set the world ablaze?

And yeah, you do have lots of problems giving credit, always have. You're one of the ones saying a QB you've never seen make a pass in the NFL can duplicate Smith's performance......that's about as disrespectful as you can get in the current context....not to mention ridiculous. Coaching is paramount, but you kind of need to have SOME idea about the player you're promoting.

But you're always spot-on, you've been so dead on about all this stuff over the years. Please drop more knowledge!

 

[clyde_carbon]

don't recall anyone saying pay Alex Smith franchise money, believe franchise money is $14.5M?

think i predicted the most at $10M first three years of five?

LOL. You're gonna give Smith 3.3mil per year for his first 3 years? That's your offer? You would get laughed right off the negotiating table. Even if you backload it, how much would it be? You would have to backload about ~30mil the last two years. No agent in his right mind would agree to that contract.

People have to accept that there's already the 8.9 per year benchmark that Fitzpatrick's contract set. Even if Alex takes a hometown discount, it'll probably be around 7.5mil per season.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Set the world ablaze?

And yeah, you do have lots of problems giving credit, always have. You're one of the ones saying a QB you've never seen make a pass in the NFL can duplicate Smith's performance......that's about as disrespectful as you can get in the current context....not to mention ridiculous. Coaching is paramount, but you kind of need to have SOME idea about the player you're promoting.

But you're always spot-on, you've been so dead on about all this stuff over the years. Please drop more knowledge!

You've spent much of the last two years arguing up and down this and ESPN's boards about how systems are much more important than QBs. Now all of the sudden you don't think we can easily find a QB that averaged ~28 attempts, ~1 TD, and ~195 yards per game working with Harbaugh/Roman? If we can't expect those numbers out of Kap then we should have never traded UP for him in the 2nd round.

Do you realize how fucking ridiculous you sound? Do you realize how you've contradicted yourself?

I'm starting to see what Cazic and the other anti-Smith people on ESPN's boards meant by calling you people "Smith Lovers". I've never see a fanbase so blindly in love with a mediocre player before. It's borderline lunacy.

 

[ViperVisor]

Jesus Christ you say 29th in passing and then say only 1 team passed less. You are crapping on your own point.

There almost no chance in Hell Kap does what happened this year in similar conditions.
If we had passed the ball 1.54 times per game we would of moved up to 22nd in yards. Its a close bunch in that area.

We were the best in limiting INTs while about avg in producing TDs and yards per pass. That was done with lackluster WRs and Pass Protection.

I could see Kappy having a rookie Andy Dalton like year in 2012. But Andy if you took away AJ Green.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Jesus Christ you say 29th in passing and then say only 1 team passed less. You are crapping on your own point.

There almost no chance in Hell Kap does what happened this year in similar conditions.
If we had passed the ball 1.54 times per game we would of moved up to 22nd in yards. Its a close bunch in that area.

We were the best in limiting INTs while about avg in producing TDs and yards per pass. That was done with lackluster WRs and Pass Protection.

I could see Kappy having a rookie Andy Dalton like year in 2012. But Andy if you took away AJ Green.

How the hell am I "crapping" on my own point? My point is that the QB was essentially an afterthought this year. The notion that there's absolutely no way Harbaugh can muster/maintain the 29th ranked passing offense with Kap/Tolzien or another FA QB is ludicrous.