Albert Pujols tops list of MLB's biggest albatrosses

[molsaniceman]

I guess a pitcher just under 4.00 era is "better than average" these days.

3.98 to be exact

 

[StanMarsh51]

I guess a pitcher just under 4.00 era is "better than average" these days.

This isn't the 1960s where everybody and their mother had an ERA under 3....times have changed, and hence hence the benchmarks have too.

I mean, 40 years ago 30 HR was something special. In the past 20 years, it's not a big deal.

 

[SJ76]

Also have to think are we talking Angels payroll or Brewers payroll? Big difference in cash. My point was pitchers are cashing in with numbers that are decent.

 

[molsaniceman]

Also have to think are we talking Angels payroll or Brewers payroll? Big difference in cash. My point was pitchers are cashing in with numbers that are decent.

lets face it everyone in mlb is overpaid some just more than others

 

[StanMarsh51]

Also have to think are we talking Angels payroll or Brewers payroll? Big difference in cash. My point was pitchers are cashing in with numbers that are decent.

It's more than just payroll however...with a contract that big (in both dollars and duration), it's unlikely he ever gets benched for a potentially more productive player down the road (ie - if they ever have the opportunity to bring up someone from the minors or trade for/sign someone playing the same position).

 

[Omar 382]

LOL @ you in love with JH Happ

I gave you the list. Ask you the question.. You're the troll that can't answer.



Exactly. Just under 4.00 era and $12/million. WOW

A win is worth around $7 million dollars these days. Let's take the average of each player's last 3 season's WAR totals, and then use the traditional method for aging players of knocking off half a win in each subsequent season. Since Pujols quickly gets into the negatives, let's just be generous and call all seasons with a sub-1.5 WAR a 1.5 season. Happ's WAR average of the last three years is 2.7. Pujols' is 1.8 (note that Happ's average WAR for the last three years is HIGHER)

 

[Omar 382]

Ignore the double posts- they're the same thing

 

[SJ76]

lets face it everyone in mlb is overpaid some just more than others

Agreed. Especially at 1B and at SP. But if I have the Angels budget and the Brewers budget, I'm signing Pujols with the Angels cash. The Brewers no way. Hell the Yankees have 5 guys making over $20 million in 2016 that are worse than Albert.

 

[SJ76]

A win is worth around $7 million dollars these days. Let's take the average of each player's last 3 season's WAR totals, and then use the traditional method for aging players of knocking off half a win in each subsequent season. Since Pujols quickly gets into the negatives, let's just be generous and call all seasons with a sub-1.5 WAR a 1.5 season. Happ's WAR average of the last three years is 2.7. Pujols' is 1.8 (note that Happ's average WAR for the last three years is HIGHER)

Tough to compare SP and 1B. Too many dam stats in baseball too. My point is there are plenty of pitchers making way more money than they should be. Albert's contract has a lot to do with past performance. He won't be the same guy, but who will? Some of these pitchers have had average years and are making an assload of money.

9 guys in the MLB hit 40 HRs last year. #5 being one of them and it was a very good year for him.

 

[Omar 382]

Tough to compare SP and 1B. Too many dam stats in baseball too. My point is there are plenty of pitchers making way more money than they should be. Albert's contract has a lot to do with past performance. He won't be the same guy, but who will? Some of these pitchers have had average years and are making an assload of money.

9 guys in the MLB hit 40 HRs last year. #5 being one of them and it was a very good year for him.

No, it was an awful year for him, and if you don't understand that, you don't know very much about baseball

 

[SJ76]

No, it was an awful year for him, and if you don't understand that, you don't know very much about baseball

40 HRs is awful? Man I don't know shit about baseball. You sound like my ex-girl arguing about dumb shit. Ally is that you dammit??

 

[StanMarsh51]

Tough to compare SP and 1B. Too many dam stats in baseball too. My point is there are plenty of pitchers making way more money than they should be. Albert's contract has a lot to do with past performance. He won't be the same guy, but who will? Some of these pitchers have had average years and are making an assload of money.

9 guys in the MLB hit 40 HRs last year. #5 being one of them and it was a very good year for him.

Yes, plenty of pitchers are making way more $ than they should be, but none of them are 10 year deals. The duration of the contract is a big problem, because as with most longer term contracts, the last few years tend to be wasted when the player's washed up and the team would've been better off using the roster/starting spot for someone else (whether by trade or a guy in the minors or signing someone).

 

[SJ76]

Yes, plenty of pitchers are making way more $ than they should be, but none of them are 10 year deals. The duration of the contract is a big problem, because as with most longer term contracts, the last few years tend to be wasted when the player's washed up and the team would've been better off using the roster/starting spot for someone else (whether by trade or a guy in the minors or signing someone).

Agreed. But when you have the TV contract the angels have and big time cash, Pujols is worth it just on experience and leadership alone. Throw in his shitty BA and 40 HRs and why not? Hell he needs to have more walks because he sees 1 strike per AB with absolutely no one hitting behind him. And he needs to get healthy. He played hurt way too much in STL and put that team on his back far too often.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Agreed. But when you have the TV contract the angels have and big time cash, Pujols is worth it just on experience and leadership alone. Throw in his shitty BA and 40 HRs and why not? Hell he needs to have more walks because he sees 1 strike per AB with absolutely no one hitting behind him. And he needs to get healthy. He played hurt way too much in STL and put that team on his back far too often.

Forget the money for a second and think about the impact on trying to put the best team on the field...



Here's a potential scenario:

In 3 years (when Pujols has 4 years left on his contract), if Pujols declines and becomes a .240 hitter with 20 HR, the Angels (like many teams in this situation) will likely be pressured into playing him everyday for those final few years to 'justify the contract'

If there's a marquee free agent 1B/player available for trade or a stud 1B prospect in AAA (presuming the DH position is used by someone else, so Pujols can't be moved to be a DH), wouldn't Pujols having that starting job at 1B potentially prevent them from getting that better player?

That's a big effect a long term contract could have that goes beyond the money aspect.

 

[SJ76]

Forget the money for a second and think about the impact on trying to put the best team on the field...



Here's a potential scenario:

In 3 years (when Pujols has 4 years left on his contract), if Pujols declines and becomes a .240 hitter with 20 HR, the Angels (like many teams in this situation) will likely be pressured into playing him everyday for those final few years to 'justify the contract'

If there's a marquee free agent 1B/player available for trade or a stud 1B prospect in AAA (presuming the DH position is used by someone else, so Pujols can't be moved to be a DH), wouldn't Pujols having that starting job at 1B potentially prevent them from getting that better player?

That's a big effect a long term contract could have that goes beyond the money aspect.

Or #5 gets the go away money that Hamilton just got. The Angels TV contract is ridiculous. Albert last 4 years will be at DH. I see where you are going and you're right.. But basically they have so much cash, they will pay him to be a very expensive coach and DH. But no one knows what he's going to be like either. You can assume he goes further downhill, but this is one of the best baseball players of all time.

Look at what Big Papi did a few years back in the WS as an old ass.

 

[Omar 382]

40 HRs is awful? Man I don't know shit about baseball. You sound like my ex-girl arguing about dumb shit. Ally is that you dammit??

LOL at your usage of home runs to judge a players' worthiness. You're like me when I was in the third grade and I argued that Sammy Sosa was a better player than Rickey Henderson

 

[Omar 382]

Or #5 gets the go away money that Hamilton just got. The Angels TV contract is ridiculous. Albert last 4 years will be at DH. I see where you are going and you're right.. But basically they have so much cash, they will pay him to be a very expensive coach and DH. But no one knows what he's going to be like either. You can assume he goes further downhill, but this is one of the best baseball players of all time.

Look at what Big Papi did a few years back in the WS as an old ass.

Yes, let's look at the outlier of the data of the thousands of players' performances in their mid-30's and ignore all other players

 

[SJ76]

LOL at your usage of home runs to judge a players' worthiness. You're like me when I was in the third grade and I argued that Sammy Sosa was a better player than Rickey Henderson

You really are a woman. I just asked if 40 HRs is awful and you go Ricky and Sammy ?? WTH

 

[Omar 382]

You really are a woman. I just asked if 40 HRs is awful and you go Ricky and Sammy ?? WTH

1. The question you asked was if Pujols' 2015 season was bad for him
2. Home run totals alone hardly connote whether or not a player was productive in any season
3. Pujols was awful in 2015, by his standards (and really just mediocre by any player's standards). He posted a beyond-pedestrian OBP of .307, and a very subpar wOBA of .333. Yes, he had power, but when you don't get on base, your production is significantly diminished. His 2 WAR is the second worst of his career.

But keep calling me a female, since you clearly have nothing to add as to why Pujols was good last year, or why his contract is better than someone like J.A. Happ's

 

[kcden]

How is Cano in this list yet? He has posted back to back 137 and 116 wRC+ in his two years with the Mariners. Now in 2 year, the contract will surely look like an "albatross," but the point of paying lots of money on long-term deals with players is that you're paying a premium for the first couple of years, and then bite the bullet on the rest. If Cano produces a 130 wRC+ and a .360 wOBA in his first four years and the M's make the playoffs, I think most people would take it even if he only has a 90 wRC+ and a .330 wOBA in his last six.

Wait, you lost me there.