Alabama's Da'shawn hand arrested for DUI

[TrustMeIamRight]

I have to disagree with you a bit. People respond differently to discipline methods and punishments. What worked for your children may or may not work for your neighbors' children. Unless the NCAA steps in and lays out an iron clad punishment regimen, you have to trust the coaches/school administration. IMHO the NCAA should leave it to the schools.

There is one constant. If you like the coach/program then he is doing the right thing. If you dislike the coach/program then he is not. I do not view Coach Saban as a win at all cost coach. I honestly do not believe that Mr. Hand is irreplaceable for the first game, especially with a month to prepare. If you agree with that then you can rule out the "he just wants to win" criticism.

I disagree -- just because you like or dislike a team/coach it has no bearing on if you agree or disagree on how they handle situations. I can't stand Michigan State, but I have the utmost respect for Dantonio. I don't like Saban, but I think he is a great coach in the SEC.

It is about consistency. If you are a star - Cam Robinson and Da'Shawn Hand, you get a pass and a slap on the wrist. If you aren't - Alphonse Taylor and Gunnar Raborn -- you are suspended indefinitely.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

I will have a $1,000 water bill from showering while defending Coach Saban.

Actually I am at the age that I want to see all of the athletes succeed in life. I rarely pull against a team except when I need an outcome to help Auburn get into the SECCG, BCSCG of old or now the playoffs. Rivalry aside, Coach Saban is the best football coach in the business and he accomplishes it through discipline. He is teaching habits/philosophy that carries over to life without football. College football fans should be proud of him and most coaches in the business for doing just that.

I want so much to like you being a former Squid, and Caroline Panthers fan, but that Auburn Tiger thing keeps getting in the way.

I agree Saban does discipline and that has been my point all along, his way is different, yet he achieves the same end result. My guess is his way goes to the source of the issue first, and then punitive measure next. Who knows. All I know is I disciplined different from other fathers and my kids turned out great. Maybe a one punishment fits all approach is not the way to go.

 

[Rolltide94]

You don't have to be a therapist. It is nothing more than common sense.

It's common sense that taking away batman action figures works for your child so it should work for every child?

...that's really what you are saying.

Well, really what you are saying is that you are too stupid to understand that you can't treat everybody the same and expect the same results.

 

[Rolltide94]

"What works for some might not work for all". lol. Amazing that Saban has managed to not only recruit top classes he's also mastered how to spot high school players who when they fuck up don;t need suspensions. You Bama fans are a seriously homeristic bunch.

If you and Trustme got together you might have enough brain cells to power a smallish lap dog effectively, so I'm not really concerned about the opinion of either of you.

That being said, I have said I am in favor of suspending him. But then, I'm kind of shallow, so I am more concerned about the appearance of discipline than any particular player rehabilitation.

 

[Rolltide94]

I disagree -- just because you like or dislike a team/coach it has no bearing on if you agree or disagree on how they handle situations.

LOL

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Been there, raised three kids to adult stage. You are preaching to the choir. I detailed items I thought would be better served as punishments. Ride along was not one. Community service, abuse classes, al ano meetings to let him see how alcohol and substance abuse destroys lives were all on my list. Community service in some form was on it, and that was to teach him about those who are less fortunate, not given a gift like he has and how he is squandering that gift doing stupid things.
Plenty of ways to punish without suspending for a game or any team activites. I am speaking in terms of individuals, not every player. I have said I have no issue with a coach suspending a player...if he is also trying to show the kid where he screwed up and how his actions effect not just himself, but others he may not even know. Yet some want to twist my words into something they are not.
Honestly, i am more concerned about the kid and how to not repeat the issue, than I am taking something away from him. Punishments in my home were always about what was done and why. My kids are all well adjusted leaders among their peers, so I must not have too bad a grasp on corrective measure.

And I agree -- if he were just ticketed for open intox or for being drunk at a party or bar. Give him the slap on the wrist and make it a teaching moment with MADD classes or community service

When you are arrested with weapons, drugs, DUI's, assaults, etc. stuff of that nature -- a slap on the wrist is going to do very little to help them, because in the end, what consequences did they have for their actions? A couple hours picking up trash on the side of the road? A ride in a cop car for a night or two?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

LOL

Unless you are a blind homer -- it shouldn't. I'm a die hard Michigan fan and can't stand many things Harbaugh does.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

And I agree -- if he were just ticketed for open intox or for being drunk at a party or bar. Give him the slap on the wrist and make it a teaching moment with MADD classes or community service

When you are arrested with weapons, drugs, DUI's, assaults, etc. stuff of that nature -- a slap on the wrist is going to do very little to help them, because in the end, what consequences did they have for their actions? A couple hours picking up trash on the side of the road? A ride in a cop car for a night or two?

You mentioned Alphonse Taylor. Alphonse says Saban disciplines, but when he speaks to the players on their issues, its not an ass chewing, its genuine concern for their well being. He wants to do what is needed to find out why they did what they did. This speaks to what I am talking about. He is going to the root cause first. Alphonse even said in his case, the media blew it up so big Saban had no choice but to suspend him. He said Saban disciplines in many ways, and suspension is not always the method because he is dealing with the individual. Much like I stated, seek out the cause, then discipline according to the issue at hand.

You guys throw out trash picking up and ride alongs, but Community service can take many forms different from that. The narrow view shows an attempt to deride instead of understand.

Oh, and Gunnar Raborn was arrested for DUI under a Controlled substance. Way more to that arrest than ever made the news. Confidentiality clause prohibits that story from being divulged but my guess is it was a heavy substance, not his first offense with it either fdom what I gathered.

 

[batchaps4me]

"What works for some might not work for all". lol. Amazing that Saban has managed to not only recruit top classes he's also mastered how to spot high school players who when they fuck up don;t need suspensions. You Bama fans are a seriously homeristic bunch.

First, I am not an Alabama fan ... War Eagle. I do believe that short of bringing back athletic dorms you will not have the control needed to prevent the chance of stupid decisions. That leaves correcting bad behavior and IMHO there is a lot of tools to achieve this. Is suspension one of the tools? Absolutely, but that is not the cure all. I would much rather see a young man from a rival school correct behavior without suspension than get suspended and not correct the behavior. Just like disciplining our own kids, it may take years to know if we did the right things.

I disagree -- just because you like or dislike a team/coach it has no bearing on if you agree or disagree on how they handle situations. I can't stand Michigan State, but I have the utmost respect for Dantonio. I don't like Saban, but I think he is a great coach in the SEC.

It is about consistency. If you are a star - Cam Robinson and Da'Shawn Hand, you get a pass and a slap on the wrist. If you aren't - Alphonse Taylor and Gunnar Raborn -- you are suspended indefinitely.

I agree with you on this but am afraid that in today's polarized age we are probably in the minority.

I am not sure there is inconsistency here. I do allow that is possible. IMHO you would have to know the attitudes and character of the individuals involved. Does a person who has a bad attitude and is unwilling to address his behavior respond well to the same range of punishments that someone with better character?
Should you treat them both the same when bad decisions are made by each of them? If your goal is standard punishment, then the answer is yes. If your goal is correcting behavior the the answer is no.

I want so much to like you being a former Squid, and Caroline Panthers fan, but that Auburn Tiger thing keeps getting in the way.

I agree Saban does discipline and that has been my point all along, his way is different, yet he achieves the same end result. My guess is his way goes to the source of the issue first, and then punitive measure next. Who knows. All I know is I disciplined different from other fathers and my kids turned out great. Maybe a one punishment fits all approach is not the way to go.

I do feel the need to say something like birds fly upside down over T-Town, just to keep my Auburn card.

The older I have gotten, the more results oriented I have become. Anyone that has managed a team at work knows that people respond to different stimuli. Looking at the recidivism rate under Coach Saban leads me to believe that he is doing it right in the vast majority of cases. Has he messed up? Absolutely and he may be now.

Dad could not prevent me from making bad decisions, even under threat of death, but he gave me the tools to correct the decisions while holding me accountable.

 

[socaljim242]

First, I am not an Alabama fan ... War Eagle. I do believe that short of bringing back athletic dorms you will not have the control needed to prevent the chance of stupid decisions. That leaves correcting bad behavior and IMHO there is a lot of tools to achieve this. Is suspension one of the tools? Absolutely, but that is not the cure all. I would much rather see a young man from a rival school correct behavior without suspension than get suspended and not correct the behavior. Just like disciplining our own kids, it may take years to know if we did the right things.



I agree with you on this but am afraid that in today's polarized age we are probably in the minority.

I am not sure there is inconsistency here. I do allow that is possible. IMHO you would have to know the attitudes and character of the individuals involved. Does a person who has a bad attitude and is unwilling to address his behavior respond well to the same range of punishments that someone with better character?
Should you treat them both the same when bad decisions are made by each of them? If your goal is standard punishment, then the answer is yes. If your goal is correcting behavior the the answer is no.



I do feel the need to say something like birds fly upside down over T-Town, just to keep my Auburn card.

The older I have gotten, the more results oriented I have become. Anyone that has managed a team at work knows that people respond to different stimuli. Looking at the recidivism rate under Coach Saban leads me to believe that he is doing it right in the vast majority of cases. Has he messed up? Absolutely and he may be now.

Dad could not prevent me from making bad decisions, even under threat of death, but he gave me the tools to correct the decisions while holding me accountable.

So that's your reasoning? Because some Jr or Sr didn't get caught with drugs and guns a second time or another DUI his no suspension policy is correct and working? LOL. Well fuck lets not suspend anyone for anything. Heck he only beat up a woman once. Why suspend the kid? lol. Great way to teach them consequences.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

So that's your reasoning? Because some Jr or Sr didn't get caught with drugs and guns a second time or another DUI his no suspension policy is correct and working? LOL. Well fuck lets not suspend anyone for anything. Heck he only beat up a woman once. Why suspend the kid? lol. Great way to teach them consequences.

This above post deserves a facepalm, but considering the source, I will just understand you didnt comprehend fully what he was saying and leave it at that.

Cliff notes version for you. Each person is a single, separate entity. Punishments and corrective actions are not one size fits all.

 

[Rolltide94]

So that's your reasoning? Because some Jr or Sr didn't get caught with drugs and guns a second time or another DUI his no suspension policy is correct and working? LOL. Well fuck lets not suspend anyone for anything. Heck he only beat up a woman once. Why suspend the kid? lol. Great way to teach them consequences.

And you are basing Saban's "no suspension policy" on what empirical evidence?

I recall a stretch in 2013 where he suspended 10 players in less than a year...Including Geno Smith for DUI, whom he suspended from the season opener with Virginia Tech.

So, I get it, your blind dislike for Alabama and Saban makes you say stupid shit, but if you are going to claim something, it might be worth a casual glance at the facts before you make blanket statements that make you look like more of a dumbass than you already do.

 

[batchaps4me]

So that's your reasoning? Because some Jr or Sr didn't get caught with drugs and guns a second time or another DUI his no suspension policy is correct and working? LOL. Well fuck lets not suspend anyone for anything. Heck he only beat up a woman once. Why suspend the kid? lol. Great way to teach them consequences.

My reasoning is simply this:
1. Parents/coaches can only teach their people the standards of expected behavior.
2. The individual is responsible for their actions.
3. When a person makes bad decisions it is far more important to correct the decision making than to punish.
4. This does NOT mean that punishment is unwarranted, but should be used with the goal of changing behavior.
5. Punishment for punishment sake only is wrongheaded.

Let's put it in terms of the legal system. There are mandatory minimums but a range of available punishments for every crime. You do not get the same sentence for possession of marijuana if it is your first offense that you get for your fifth. Also if you have a rap sheet a mile long it is treated differently than a clean record.

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

First, I am not an Alabama fan ... War Eagle. I do believe that short of bringing back athletic dorms you will not have the control needed to prevent the chance of stupid decisions. That leaves correcting bad behavior and IMHO there is a lot of tools to achieve this. Is suspension one of the tools? Absolutely, but that is not the cure all. I would much rather see a young man from a rival school correct behavior without suspension than get suspended and not correct the behavior. Just like disciplining our own kids, it may take years to know if we did the right things.



I agree with you on this but am afraid that in today's polarized age we are probably in the minority.

I am not sure there is inconsistency here. I do allow that is possible. IMHO you would have to know the attitudes and character of the individuals involved. Does a person who has a bad attitude and is unwilling to address his behavior respond well to the same range of punishments that someone with better character?
Should you treat them both the same when bad decisions are made by each of them? If your goal is standard punishment, then the answer is yes. If your goal is correcting behavior the the answer is no.



I do feel the need to say something like birds fly upside down over T-Town, just to keep my Auburn card.

The older I have gotten, the more results oriented I have become. Anyone that has managed a team at work knows that people respond to different stimuli. Looking at the recidivism rate under Coach Saban leads me to believe that he is doing it right in the vast majority of cases. Has he messed up? Absolutely and he may be now.

Dad could not prevent me from making bad decisions, even under threat of death, but he gave me the tools to correct the decisions while holding me accountable.

When I was younger I drank, I am talking 16, 17 aged, not legal aged. My dad found out and he blew up, took my car, wore my ass out, restricted me to the house. Came home one afternoon two weeks later to me passed out in the living room with a bottle of booze by my head. He got smart and realized I was not defying him, I had issues I needed to deal with. One year later, alcohol abuse classes and counseling sessions behind me, I was no longer drinking and had gotten bottled up anger at my parents out in the open. This is when I decided that attacking a person by throwing punishments, without knowing why they did it, was a useless endeavor. I never punished my kids without asking why they did something (once they got to reasoning age anyway) and then I dealt punishments based on the crime and the child. I grew some understanding at an early age that punishment can come in many forms and sometimes, it doesnt have to be a loss of something that helps the most.

 

[7Samurai13]

Let's just put third thread in a nutshell. Alabama fans feel that no player should ever be punished by the team for any legal matter, ever.

 

[batchaps4me]

Let's just put third thread in a nutshell. Alabama fans feel that no player should ever be punished by the team for any legal matter, ever.

Link? Quote?

 

[WestEndVol]

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

Let's just put third thread in a nutshell. Alabama fans feel that no player should ever be punished by the team for any legal matter, ever.

Wrong on so many levels, but you knew this when you posted it.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Thanks for proving which you are.

Thanks for continuing to not understand the difference between your response and the other tide fans. But then again, you're the "bigger man" ROFLMAO

 

[7Samurai13]

Link? Quote?

4D20 has been saying that the police punishment should be the only punishment to be levied for whatever bullshit reason he wants to make up to make Saban look good.