AL Central Smack Talk

[TrustMeIamRight]

By the way, Hosmer had more homer runs at age 22 than Fielder did

At 22 -- Hosmer had 33 HRs total in 1060 ABs. At 22 -- Fielder had 30 HRs in 618 ABs.

At 23 -- Hosmer had 47 HRs total in 1595 ABs. At 23 -- Fielder had 81 HRs in 1181 ABs.

Yeah -- with 442 more ABs -- he had 3 more HRs than Fielder at 22 and 34 less homeruns at age 23, even though he has 415 more ABs. Nice argument to bring up.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

yeah, got ya...has nothing to do with KC fan, your bias not only for Fielder and personal spite against KC isn't surfacing at all...

I'm not even a Fielder fan. About the only thing I like about Fielder is, he runs full speed even on easy ground ball outs. I think the contract the Tigers gave him was a knee jerk reaction to losing VMart for the year and the end of his contract is going to bite the Tigers in the ass.

And with KC -- I have no spite at all with them. What is there for me to dislike about them? The last time they were relevant, I was more worried about playing with my GI Joe's with the cobra grip than watching baseball.

All I am saying is -- Hosmer had a nice season, but nothing to get excited about. He has yet to hit 20 homeruns in a season. He has yet to have more than 80 rbi's in a season. In 1643 ABs in the MLB -- he has 49 HRs or 1 less than Fielder hit in 573 ABs when he was 23.

Do I think Hosmer is a good player? Yes. Do I think he has the potential to be a star? Possibly. Has he put up numbers to be in the same discussion with other stars, like Fielder or Goldschmidt? Absolutely not.

If Hosmer comes out next year and hits .300 with 30 homeruns and 100+ RBI's -- I'd be the first one to call the guy a stud. You are talking based on his 'potential' to put up numbers like that. This is a guy, who just last year, hit .234 with 14 hrs and 60 rbi's. Until he can produce the numbers you talk about in a single season and then show he can do it consistently -- he is not a top tier 1st baseman.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

list out all the players in the league who has their "stud" years at 21, 22 or even 23 years old....well besides Fielder, at 23, that was and will be his career best season, all will be lower than that.

FYI dabums -- Fielder's best year was in 2009 when he hit 46 HRs and 141 RBI's, not 2007 when he hit 50 HRs. I would even take 2011, when he had more RBI's, a high OBP and a higher BA than 2007.

As far as Fielder's numbers with Detroit -- they have been consistent to what he produced in the NL, with the exception of HRs, which was to be expected going from Miller Park to Comerica, as well as switching leagues and seeing all new pitchers.

This year -- Fielder is dealing with a personal issues off the field, which I think have really hurt his game. He is going thru a divorce with his wife and anyone who reads up about Fielder -- he is like VMart, he has his kids everywhere with him, so I think it has taken a toll on him.

I don't expect to see Fielder hitting 40+ homeruns a year in Comerica -- the only guy I see doing that is Cabrera, because he hits them to both right and left field. Fielder's power is to the pull field and the gaps in Comerica are like CFs in most stadiums, so his HR totals were going to go down.

 

[da55bums]

I'm not even a Fielder fan. About the only thing I like about Fielder is, he runs full speed even on easy ground ball outs. I think the contract the Tigers gave him was a knee jerk reaction to losing VMart for the year and the end of his contract is going to bite the Tigers in the ass.

And with KC -- I have no spite at all with them. What is there for me to dislike about them? The last time they were relevant, I was more worried about playing with my GI Joe's with the cobra grip than watching baseball.

All I am saying is -- Hosmer had a nice season, but nothing to get excited about. He has yet to hit 20 homeruns in a season. He has yet to have more than 80 rbi's in a season. In 1643 ABs in the MLB -- he has 49 HRs or 1 less than Fielder hit in 573 ABs when he was 23.

Do I think Hosmer is a good player? Yes. Do I think he has the potential to be a star? Possibly. Has he put up numbers to be in the same discussion with other stars, like Fielder or Goldschmidt? Absolutely not.

If Hosmer comes out next year and hits .300 with 30 homeruns and 100+ RBI's -- I'd be the first one to call the guy a stud. You are talking based on his 'potential' to put up numbers like that. This is a guy, who just last year, hit .234 with 14 hrs and 60 rbi's. Until he can produce the numbers you talk about in a single season and then show he can do it consistently -- he is not a top tier 1st baseman.

and all I am saying is Eric Hosmer, Matt Carpenter, as well as others are all statistically ranked higher than Fielder, this season, which they are...there isn't a debate on that unless Fielder hits out of his mind the next two weeks and clearly passes them...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

and all I am saying is Eric Hosmer, Matt Carpenter, as well as others are all statistically ranked higher than Fielder, this season, which they are...there isn't a debate on that unless Fielder hits out of his mind the next two weeks and clearly passes them...

1. Where is Matt Carpenter coming from? The guy isn't even a 1st baseman, he plays 2nd base.

2. Where does Hosmer rank higher than Fielder? Fielder has more HR's, more RBI's, more extra base hits, a higher OBP, a higher Slug % and a higher OPS. So because Hosmer has a higher BA, it means he ranks higher than Fielder?

3. 1B is a power position -- Hosmer ranks 15th in AL in homeruns among 1B -- the only everyday 1B he has more HRs than is Paul Konerko, who missed a month of the season. Hosmer ranks 9th for RBIs among AL 1st baseman.

4. As I said -- Hosmer has the POTENTIAL to be a superstar. He has yet to reach his potential and has not put together a full season. His numbers this year were nice -- it was a quality season. It isn't even close to being talked about as a top tier at his position though.

5. If you want to talk about and compare Hosmer to top tier talent -- at least let him get a single season in with numbers those players average each season over their career. Trying to compare him with players like Goldschmidt and Fielder is ridiculous, when you could take Hosmer's career highs in every category over 3 seasons and it would compare to either player.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Any argument claiming that Hosmer is better than Fielder is speculating on the value past 2013 most likely. Rather silly to compare statistics at this point in time. Of course Fielder has better numbers at this point...

 

[StanMarsh51]

FYI dabums -- Fielder's best year was in 2009 when he hit 46 HRs and 141 RBI's, not 2007 when he hit 50 HRs. I would even take 2011, when he had more RBI's, a high OBP and a higher BA than 2007.

As far as Fielder's numbers with Detroit -- they have been consistent to what he produced in the NL, with the exception of HRs, which was to be expected going from Miller Park to Comerica, as well as switching leagues and seeing all new pitchers.

This year -- Fielder is dealing with a personal issues off the field, which I think have really hurt his game. He is going thru a divorce with his wife and anyone who reads up about Fielder -- he is like VMart, he has his kids everywhere with him, so I think it has taken a toll on him.

I don't expect to see Fielder hitting 40+ homeruns a year in Comerica -- the only guy I see doing that is Cabrera, because he hits them to both right and left field. Fielder's power is to the pull field and the gaps in Comerica are like CFs in most stadiums, so his HR totals were going to go down.

I thought they moved in the fences a few years ago, and the park's become somewhat hitter friendly? He hasn't been hitting many HRs on the road (12 in each of the past 2 seasons), so I think it's more than just the park.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Had no idea Fielder was such a good pitcher.

Haha...that would make him the best hitter/pitcher since Ruth

 

[StanMarsh51]

and all I am saying is Eric Hosmer, Matt Carpenter, as well as others are all statistically ranked higher than Fielder, this season, which they are...there isn't a debate on that unless Fielder hits out of his mind the next two weeks and clearly passes them...

Matt Carpenter's a 2B/3B this year...not sure where he fits in the comparison.

 

[broncosmitty]

He tends to do this kind of thing. Not really sure why people bother to dispute his ridiculous claims. Magic Number:3.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I thought they moved in the fences a few years ago, and the park's become somewhat hitter friendly?

They did move in the fences -- it was REALLY obnoxious before they did that. You still have to hit a bomb to RC or LC in Comerica and CF is still 420'.

To put it in perspective -- Mark Trumbo hit a ball 433' where the CF and LC wall meets and it was caught by AJax at the wall. On the broadcast they said -- it would have been a homerun in every single ballpark in the MLB, with the exception of Comerica.

As far as Fielder putting up stats like he did to start his career -- I don't think you will see that. Teams consistently pitch him away, which is why you see so many hits to LF this year.

He doesn't have the opposite field power that Cabrera has, but very few players do.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Any argument claiming that Hosmer is better than Fielder is speculating on the value past 2013 most likely. Rather silly to compare statistics at this point in time. Of course Fielder has better numbers at this point...

dabums is saying Hosmer has been statistically better this year. When I listed the categories Fielder had better numbers than Hosmer -- that was for this year alone. As you said -- it'd be pointless to compare careers, as one has played more than the other.

i also stated -- hosmer has the potential to be a top player, but he is far from that right now. when you have more HRs than one everyday 1B in the AL, it isn't helping your cause. neither is being ranked 9th in RBI's by 1B in the AL.

if Hosmer was a 2nd baseman -- his numbers would be impressive, because it isn't a power position. At 1st base though -- his numbers are pedestrians outside hitting .304.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

dabums is saying Hosmer has been statistically better this year. When I listed the categories Fielder had better numbers than Hosmer -- that was for this year alone. As you said -- it'd be pointless to compare careers, as one has played more than the other.

i also stated -- hosmer has the potential to be a top player, but he is far from that right now. when you have more HRs than one everyday 1B in the AL, it isn't helping your cause. neither is being ranked 9th in RBI's by 1B in the AL.

if Hosmer was a 2nd baseman -- his numbers would be impressive, because it isn't a power position. At 1st base though -- his numbers are pedestrians outside hitting .304.

Careful about that, I did say it was silly to compare the two this year for a REASON. I definitely do not agree with Bums there. I am well aware of what he meant, I am just trying to put a more rational spin to it.

 

[StanMarsh51]

They did move in the fences -- it was REALLY obnoxious before they did that. You still have to hit a bomb to RC or LC in Comerica and CF is still 420'.

To put it in perspective -- Mark Trumbo hit a ball 433' where the CF and LC wall meets and it was caught by AJax at the wall. On the broadcast they said -- it would have been a homerun in every single ballpark in the MLB, with the exception of Comerica.

As far as Fielder putting up stats like he did to start his career -- I don't think you will see that. Teams consistently pitch him away, which is why you see so many hits to LF this year.

He doesn't have the opposite field power that Cabrera has, but very few players do.

I guess it depends which part of the gap you hit it to...straight away LCF and RCF don't appear that deep at 370' and 365'...when you get closer to CF, it goes over 400' and it appears the deepest part is about '423 along the CF wall on the right field side. Straight away LF seems ridiculous at '345, but I guess it's offset by the LCF dimension.

I know park factors ranks it as a hitters' park nowadays, although the overall HR factor tends to slightly favor pitchers.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I guess it depends which part of the gap you hit it to...straight away LCF and RCF don't appear that deep at 370' and 365'...when you get closer to CF, it goes over 400' and it appears the deepest part is about '423 along the CF wall on the right field side. Straight away LF seems ridiculous at '345, but I guess it's offset by the LCF dimension.

I know park factors ranks it as a hitters' park nowadays, although the overall HR factor tends to slightly favor pitchers.

I can see it being listed as a hitters park, as the gaps in Comerica are HUGE in RC and LC. As far as a HR park -- i'd say it is almost a neutral park. Anything in CF or the power alleys in RF or LF and you really have to give it a ride to get it out.

I'd love to see what Cabrera could do with 81 games in somewhere like NY or Baltimore. He could do some serious damage.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I am well aware of what he meant, I am just trying to put a more rational spin to it.

Understandable -- I actually think Hosmer has the potential to put up big time numbers. It is the reason I picked him up off the waiver wire his rookie year and drafted him last year and this year in fantasy baseball.

His best seasons are definitely in front of him -- I'm not sure if you are going to see him consistently hit 30+ homeruns a year, but I think he can give you 20-25 and hit .320+.

He just has to learn how to limit his slumps. Everyone is going to have slumps, but the great players normally only have mini-slumps and not months at a time. That has been his biggest issue. If he can get off to a hot start -- I think he could put up superstar numbers. dabums talks about him as if he has already, which he hasn't 'yet'.

 

[da55bums]

1. Where is Matt Carpenter coming from? The guy isn't even a 1st baseman, he plays 2nd base.

2. Where does Hosmer rank higher than Fielder? Fielder has more HR's, more RBI's, more extra base hits, a higher OBP, a higher Slug % and a higher OPS. So because Hosmer has a higher BA, it means he ranks higher than Fielder?

3. 1B is a power position -- Hosmer ranks 15th in AL in homeruns among 1B -- the only everyday 1B he has more HRs than is Paul Konerko, who missed a month of the season. Hosmer ranks 9th for RBIs among AL 1st baseman.

4. As I said -- Hosmer has the POTENTIAL to be a superstar. He has yet to reach his potential and has not put together a full season. His numbers this year were nice -- it was a quality season. It isn't even close to being talked about as a top tier at his position though.

5. If you want to talk about and compare Hosmer to top tier talent -- at least let him get a single season in with numbers those players average each season over their career. Trying to compare him with players like Goldschmidt and Fielder is ridiculous, when you could take Hosmer's career highs in every category over 3 seasons and it would compare to either player.

Hosmer and Carpenter are both 1b eligible and both are ranked higher in relative statistical categories....its not only about HR's....John Olerud was ranked higher than many HR hitters, there have been PLENTY of players who ranked higher with less HR's.....are you saying that Adam Dunn is more valuable 1b than Hosmer....give me a break...


Look, Miggy is the best hitter currently in the game, statistically....Max and Sanchez are statistically 2 of the top tier pitchers in the game....Fielder and Jackson are a notch below in their respective positions, they are not in the top tier, they are in the 2nd tier, this season....there are at least 5 players that statistically are better than both of them in those positions...thats just the way it is...every player on Detroit is NOT the best player in the league at each postion....Its not even close to a bad thing at all...

JV is just having his first bad season since he lost 17.

Fielder's HR's keep declining...last 3 years averaging what 33, strange since 27, 28 and 29 are most players peak years.

Iglesas will never be a top 15 SS, except maybe his career year. Infante is injury prone. Hunter is well, hitting in front of Miggy and seeing more fastballs than he has ever seen in his career.

Avila will definately need to be replaced if he continues the spiral down.

LF could be a revolving door until they get someone else or Dirks decides to take the spot...

It is what it is, you can't have the best player in the majors at every position, that would be called an All Star team and not even the yankees or dodgers with their payrolls can pull that off...

The Tigers are still in the top 3rd to 6th teams in the league, thats better than 27 other teams, stop getting your panties in a bunch.

 

[da55bums]

Understandable -- I actually think Hosmer has the potential to put up big time numbers. It is the reason I picked him up off the waiver wire his rookie year and drafted him last year and this year in fantasy baseball.

His best seasons are definitely in front of him -- I'm not sure if you are going to see him consistently hit 30+ homeruns a year, but I think he can give you 20-25 and hit .320+.

He just has to learn how to limit his slumps. Everyone is going to have slumps, but the great players normally only have mini-slumps and not months at a time. That has been his biggest issue. If he can get off to a hot start -- I think he could put up superstar numbers. dabums talks about him as if he has already, which he hasn't 'yet'.

Dude, all hitters have larger slumps and hot streaks under the age of 24 to 25 yrs old....every one in HISTORY of baseball....of course Hosmer is having them, he is 23 yrs old...

I can't help you understand the statistical patterns of great players, good players, average players, below average players much more...there are distinct patters for all of those types of players and yes there are always a few exceptions to the statistical patters...

if a hitter has a 1 walk for every 4 strikeout average or higher, MOST of the time they do not sustain successfull seasons or careers...the best hitters in the game generally have, at worst 1 to 3.5 ratios...

another pattern with long career, good to great hitters that most people don't realize...when the average starts to drop and people start thinking that player is starting to wash up, they generally have a good to great year, to prove them wrong, then crash down to very little...just look at 5 to 10 hitters who have had careers 15 years or longer...you start seeing general patterns...

Nobody of Fielders size and abilities have had a long successfull career in the history of baseball, except maybe Babe Ruth...feel free to list 3 or more players that have....and I will list twice as many who haven't...Fielder was and will as bad a signing as many NYY signings in the last 10 to 15 years...and yes only time will tell the truth.

 

[da55bums]

1 ranking has - Carpenter 4th, Fielder 9th, Hosmer 10th
another has - Carpenter 4th, Fielder 8th, Hosmer 9th
another has - Carpenter (not listed), Fielder 4th, with 3 (Votto, Craig, Freeman between them) Hosmer 8th.
another has - Carpenter (not listed), Hosmer 7th, Fielder 10th (and the most recent made, Sept 3 2013 and the most up to date statistics used) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...39376-br-mlb-500-top-35-first-basemen/page/37

but hey, it is what it is, go ahead and believe what you want to believe, I will stick with gathering info, studying history...

If you think its just about being a Royals fan, my other believe, based on the same info, Moose will be a career .260 to .265 hitter at best...sure he will have a few years higher than that...but he won't be anywhere close to upper tier hitting.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Hosmer and Carpenter are both 1b eligible and both are ranked higher in relative statistical categories....its not only about HR's....John Olerud was ranked higher than many HR hitters, there have been PLENTY of players who ranked higher with less HR's.....are you saying that Adam Dunn is more valuable 1b than Hosmer....give me a break...

Carpenter has 5 ABs as a 1st baseman this year. So stop it already with the talks of Carpenter, you are only making yourself look foolish.

And I agree -- there is more than hitting HRs, which is why I said, Fielder has more RBI's, more extra base hits, a higher OBP, a higher Slug % and a higher OPS than Hosmer. So in a down year for Fielder -- he is still better statistically than Hosmer.

In NO WAY am I saying Fielder is the standard for 1B in the AL. I'm just saying Hosmer isn't even in the same conversation with Fielder right now (notice I said right now). You are talking about Hosmer with the likes of Fielder and Goldschmidt, while Hosmer has never hit 20 homeruns in a season and never had more than 80 RBIs.

Give Hosmer some time and he may develop into a stud, but right now, he is all potential. He had a solid season, but nowhere near superstar numbers. If 16 homeruns with a .304 AVG for a 1B was superstar numbers -- Casey Kotchman was a superstar last year. LOL.