AL Central Smack Talk

[MiamiVice]

You have called me and Nos jealous multiple times. I didn't just pull it out of nowhere.

Im still here because I like talking baseball. As you can see aside from today I really cut down the posting of the last week(time had to do with it) because each day was a project trying to keep up with the shit going on.

Now if that tygerphan psyco gets reinstated I may bolt for the doors for good.

trust me.. da55bums is more of a threat to this thread than that weirdo tygerphan...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If it makes you feel better Mr.Hockey -- I'm a die hard Tigers fan and I agree with you on Porcello.

I think what he gives the Tigers right now is what we will see out of him, as long as he is on the team. In over 800 innings pitched, teams are hitting .288 against him. When you are a contact pitcher -- that doesn't bode well and is why you see him go thru stretches where he gets smacked around.

If he can develop a strike out pitch -- he is a guy who could be a middle of the rotation guy. Right now though -- he is an innings eater, with the potential to be better, but has to learn how to miss more bats.

So see Hockey -- not every tigers fan loves every player on the team. Don't get me wrong -- I think Porcello is a very good #5 starter. He does what is asked of him, keeps the team in the game and usually gives you 5-7 innings each start. I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as others, unless he is traded to the NL and can face pitchers and a lot more small ball.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

trust me.. da55bums is more of a threat to this thread than that weirdo tygerphan...

lol da55bums I usually just ignored because I knew ahead of time his post was usually just trying to compete with you in some stupid way he came up with.

tygerphan would make 1 normal most then make 7 straight completely illiterate AND of topic posts than I got a headache trying to keep up.

Appears they are both gone for good anyways so shouldnt be an issue.

 

[MiamiVice]

If it makes you feel better Mr.Hockey -- I'm a die hard Tigers fan and I agree with you on Porcello.

I think what he gives the Tigers right now is what we will see out of him, as long as he is on the team. In over 800 innings pitched, teams are hitting .288 against him. When you are a contact pitcher -- that doesn't bode well and is why you see him go thru stretches where he gets smacked around.

If he can develop a strike out pitch -- he is a guy who could be a middle of the rotation guy. Right now though -- he is an innings eater, with the potential to be better, but has to learn how to miss more bats.

So see Hockey -- not every tigers fan loves every player on the team. Don't get me wrong -- I think Porcello is a very good #5 starter. He does what is asked of him, keeps the team in the game and usually gives you 5-7 innings each start. I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as others, unless he is traded to the NL and can face pitchers and a lot more small ball.

If Porcello was called up this year like the majority of top prospects his age.. you would be nutting yourself and excited about his potential... the fact is.. you watched him develop for 700-800 innings in the majors..which is not the norm.. and rarely would you see a 22, 23, 24 year old be anything more than a 5th starter in those years of their life as a major leaguer in the AL.. the idea that because he is in the majors.. that his development is over is just plain retarded. Flat out.. there is a reason he has not been traded and its not because other teams don't want him...

 

[mr.hockey4242]

If it makes you feel better Mr.Hockey -- I'm a die hard Tigers fan and I agree with you on Porcello.

I think what he gives the Tigers right now is what we will see out of him, as long as he is on the team. In over 800 innings pitched, teams are hitting .288 against him. When you are a contact pitcher -- that doesn't bode well and is why you see him go thru stretches where he gets smacked around.

If he can develop a strike out pitch -- he is a guy who could be a middle of the rotation guy. Right now though -- he is an innings eater, with the potential to be better, but has to learn how to miss more bats.

So see Hockey -- not every tigers fan loves every player on the team. Don't get me wrong -- I think Porcello is a very good #5 starter. He does what is asked of him, keeps the team in the game and usually gives you 5-7 innings each start. I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as others, unless he is traded to the NL and can face pitchers and a lot more small ball.

I'm completely fine with people not agreeing with me. At the end these are still opinions.

But when I am giving my opinion and there are numbers that support me not thinking hes good I dont like when im told "I clearly don't know pitching"(even if Bronco meant no offense) or "Dougy is a better one to ask) or someone the fact the twins pitching sucking actualy has to do with my opinion of Porcello.

If Vice thinks Rick will be good in the future that is his opinion. Its what makes this thread fun, over the years we can see whose views hold up over time.

I just happen to think RIck is in a perfect situation. Durable and has a team that can back him up. So he can get a lot of wins that you want out of a 5th starter.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Another Tiger I think is massively over rated.. Smyly.. Porcello has a higher ceiling..

How can you think Porcello has a higher ceiling? What has Porcello shown you that makes you think he has more potential?

Both pitchers have a great demeanor on the mound, but I'd take the left hander who has averaged almost a strikeout an inning in 168 IP, while teams have only hit .235 against him.

 

[MiamiVice]

I have said this countless times.. I think Porcello is a younger version of Fister... and I think he can be a better version of Fister... that is most likely his ceiling a fringe #2 or solid #3... but I will be surprised if he never has an all star quality season or three... the kid has the talent to put up a stellar season.. its not like he is getting rocked every start.. he is having good, solid starts.. with a bad one once a month or so.. which is normal for a kid still learning how to pitch. I don't think Porcello gets the credit for his 15 QS this season.. but boy do his bad 4 or 5 bad starts get picked apart.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

If Porcello was called up this year like the majority of top prospects his age.. you would be nutting yourself and excited about his potential... the fact is.. you watched him develop for 700-800 innings in the majors..which is not the norm.. and rarely would you see a 22, 23, 24 year old be anything more than a 5th starter in those years of their life as a major leaguer in the AL.. the idea that because he is in the majors.. that his development is over is just plain retarded. Flat out.. there is a reason he has not been traded and its not because other teams don't want him...

I agree with you but this works the other way too. It isn't Archer or Parker or Cigrani's fault that they developed more in the minors.

All these guys are right around the same age and now pitching in the big leagues.

It isnt Ricks fault he came up at a young age. He still has to show that flash of success. These other guys have at least shown something so far...which is why their potential should be higher.

They all have chances to go either way. Porcello to this point is still what he is. Pitch to contact, can hold up over a course of a season and have stretches of good pitching.

 

[MiamiVice]

How can you think Porcello has a higher ceiling? What has Porcello shown you that makes you think he has more potential?

Both pitchers have a great demeanor on the mound, but I'd take the left hander who has averaged almost a strikeout an inning in 168 IP, while teams have only hit .235 against him.

How many starts does Smyly have? Just curious.. you do realize that there is a reason Smyly is not in the rotation... and its not because they needed a lefty.. if they thought Smyly was the better starter he would be there... You are basing your opinion on 18 starts... in which he had about a 4 era. Oh.. by the way... They ae the same age... Smyly is over rated...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If Porcello was called up this year like the majority of top prospects his age.. you would be nutting yourself and excited about his potential

What is there is "nut myself" over? It isn't as if Porcello has been overly impressive this year. It has been much of the same we have seen since he has come into the league. I could see if his ERA was about a run lower than it is -- I would be excited about him.

IMO, Porcello is a guy who stands out more for his durability, than his pitching ability. He isn't going to blow away any hitters, he pitches to contact, but he will keep you in a lot of games. It isn't a bad thing -- He doesn't need to be a stud on Detroit, they have plenty of pitching. He does his job and does his job well as the #5 starter.

 

[MiamiVice]

I agree with you but this works the other way too. It isn't Archer or Parker or Cigrani's fault that they developed more in the minors.

All these guys are right around the same age and now pitching in the big leagues.

It isnt Ricks fault he came up at a young age. He still has to show that flash of success. These other guys have at least shown something so far...which is why their potential should be higher.

They all have chances to go either way. Porcello to this point is still what he is. Pitch to contact, can hold up over a course of a season and have stretches of good pitching.

I agree... it doesn't matter that they were not called up them.. what matter is.. if they were up 2 or 3 yrs ago.. they would not be putting up the numbers they are today most likely.

 

[MiamiVice]

I agree with you but this works the other way too. It isn't Archer or Parker or Cigrani's fault that they developed more in the minors.

All these guys are right around the same age and now pitching in the big leagues.

It isnt Ricks fault he came up at a young age. He still has to show that flash of success. These other guys have at least shown something so far...which is why their potential should be higher.

They all have chances to go either way. Porcello to this point is still what he is. Pitch to contact, can hold up over a course of a season and have stretches of good pitching.

You don't think Porcello has shown flashes of success? He has 15 QS this year.. and he had a stretch of like 6 starts where his era was below 3

 

[MiamiVice]

What is there is "nut myself" over? It isn't as if Porcello has been overly impressive this year. It has been much of the same we have seen since he has come into the league. I could see if his ERA was about a run lower than it is -- I would be excited about him.

IMO, Porcello is a guy who stands out more for his durability, than his pitching ability. He isn't going to blow away any hitters, he pitches to contact, but he will keep you in a lot of games. It isn't a bad thing -- He doesn't need to be a stud on Detroit, they have plenty of pitching. He does his job and does his job well as the #5 starter.

If you think Fister is #5 caliber.. than I will agree with you.. because basically Porcello is a younger Fister.. period.. and Fister is not a #5... Guys that don't have huge strike out numbers need to learn to pitch before they put up the great numbers.. guys like Fernandez from Miami can get away without knowing how to really pitch because of their nasty pitches.. its not to say that Porcello can't be a great pitcher... its more to say he needs more time to learn how to actually pitch and not just throw. Most fans don't have the patience to understand that... then a guy is traded and he turns into a Doug Fister that has nice seasons in his late 20's early 30's elsewhere.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't think Porcello gets the credit for his 15 QS this season

As I said -- he keeps the Tigers in a lot of games. I've already made my feelings known about quality starts. 6 IP and 3 ER is non-sense as a 'QS'. That is 4.50 ERA, that is below average, not quality. The overall ERA for every AL starter is 4.30.

Porcello just had a game where he gave up 11 hits and a walk in 6 IP and got a 'quality start'. That is a 2.00 WHIP -- there was nothing quality about the start, other than the fact the other team only plated 3 runs. That is just my opinion though -- I think that stat needs to be revised.

I guess we can just agree to disagree -- I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as you do. I think he is a guy who can get his ERA to the low 4.00's, but he just doesn't have an out pitch and gives up too many hits.

 

[MiamiVice]

There are two types of pitchers... really... you have guys with crazy strike out stuff and pin point accurate guys that pitch smart and and play the game like chess... Aces do both. Porcello is the second.. When Verlander is on.. he does both.. same with Max... Porcello is never going to be an ace.. but he is not a future #5.. that is so short sited its not even funny. He is a #5 as a 24 yr old on a championship contender... in two years.. I doubt you will think he is a #5 when he is creeping into his prime.

 

[MiamiVice]

As I said -- he keeps the Tigers in a lot of games. I've already made my feelings known about quality starts. 6 IP and 3 ER is non-sense as a 'QS'. That is 4.50 ERA, that is below average, not quality. The overall ERA for every AL starter is 4.30.

Porcello just had a game where he gave up 11 hits and a walk in 6 IP and got a 'quality start'. That is a 2.00 WHIP -- there was nothing quality about the start, other than the fact the other team only plated 3 runs. That is just my opinion though -- I think that stat needs to be revised.

I guess we can just agree to disagree -- I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as you do. I think he is a guy who can get his ERA to the low 4.00's, but he just doesn't have an out pitch and gives up too many hits.

He is a sinkerball pitcher.. he goes for contact.. if the defense doesn't get to the ball.. there will be hits... he is not trying to k people most at bats... People fall in love with k's.. but in all honesty.. scherzer didn't start to actually go deep into games and take the next step until he stopped trying to k every batter.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You are basing your opinion on 18 starts... in which he had about a 4 era. Oh.. by the way... They ae the same age... Smyly is over rated...

I know they are the same age -- Smyly went to college and was drafted from there. Porcello signed out of high school, so obviously he has more experience right now.

It still doesn't change the fact that in 168 IP -- Smyly has struck out almost a batter an inning while teams are only hitting .235 against him. If you'd like to take Porcello's 1st 168 IP, feel free to compare them to Smyly's.

Out of curiosity -- how is it Smyly is overrated, when you just stated Smyly and Porcello are the same age?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

You don't think Porcello has shown flashes of success? He has 15 QS this year.. and he had a stretch of like 6 starts where his era was below 3

Sure, in that sense I guess he has but he had a stretch where he faced the Sox a lot as well.

I'm looking for more flashes where he puts up a great era for a long stretch. Like you have said Archer probably wont hold up completely but 102 innigns of a 2.81 is showing something.

Obviously Archer and Cigrani still havnt even gone a full year so there is a alot to prove.

Parker is on his second full year of putting up very nice numbers though.

Rick while he can bundle some QS together he still has that ugly ERA.

However it is dropping a consistent rate the last few years though. Still a long ways from the 3.5 prediction.

 

[MiamiVice]

As I said -- he keeps the Tigers in a lot of games. I've already made my feelings known about quality starts. 6 IP and 3 ER is non-sense as a 'QS'. That is 4.50 ERA, that is below average, not quality. The overall ERA for every AL starter is 4.30.

Porcello just had a game where he gave up 11 hits and a walk in 6 IP and got a 'quality start'. That is a 2.00 WHIP -- there was nothing quality about the start, other than the fact the other team only plated 3 runs. That is just my opinion though -- I think that stat needs to be revised.

I guess we can just agree to disagree -- I just don't see Porcello progressing as much as you do. I think he is a guy who can get his ERA to the low 4.00's, but he just doesn't have an out pitch and gives up too many hits.

Porcello will have his era in the low 4's by the end of this season.. maybe even high 3's... you are thinking to shorted sited on him and are forgetting his age his body is not even in its prime yet. It makes me laugh when people say he is done developing.. He has 59 wins.. and is 24... he is the type of pitcher that can pitch long into his 30's or 40's because he relies on accuracy and contact and not power... he could easily have 15 more yrs in him... and win 250+ games in his career.

 

[MiamiVice]

I know they are the same age -- Smyly went to college and was drafted from there. Porcello signed out of high school, so obviously he has more experience right now.

It still doesn't change the fact that in 168 IP -- Smyly has struck out almost a batter an inning while teams are only hitting .235 against him. If you'd like to take Porcello's 1st 168 IP, feel free to compare them to Smyly's.

Out of curiosity -- how is it Smyly is overrated, when you just stated Smyly and Porcello are the same age?

Smyly is overrated because Tigers fans like to say he is better than Porcello just because of his performance in the bullpen... If you look up Porcello's first 170 innings.. all as a starter I would like to remind you.. his numbers are actually comparable.. and he was 20.... Smyly as a starter had an era of over 4 and and a whip of 1.3.... and he was 23... you are valuing k's to much.. most fans do.. a k is worth the same thing as a ground out or fly out.. but a guy that actually knows how to get a ground out regularly can get dp's more often...