AL Central Smack Talk

[navamind]

So everyone is saying verlander sucks.....hes 12-10 with a 3.73

But appier was great between 90-97

91- 13-10 3.42
94- 7-6. 3.83
95- 15-10 3.89
96- 14-11. 3.62
97- 9-13. 3.40


I would hardly say those are great numbers....good, but not great.....if only 2 pitchers were better, i guess its because of the steroids there werent many good pitchers.

Appier had a good W-L considering he was pitching for the Royals.

From 90-97:
103-74, 3.22 ERA, 7.41 K/9, 3.04 BB/9, 0.60 HR/9, 1643.2 IP, 1.21 WHIP, 140 ERA+

Those ERAs are a lot better than you think considering how plentiful runs were in the 90's. Him (or Johnson) should have won the CYA in '93. In '96, his 3.62 ERA was good for 5th in the AL. 3.40 in '97 was good for 7th. He was just outside the top 10 in '95.

 

[navamind]

In 16 years where he played in more than 100 games he only hit 300 or better 3 times.....i dont get into all those other weird stats....is a 94 good? I see ron leflore had a career 104 ops+. But i dont think he would be top 30 in the tigers.....i did like willie wilson tho......think he was rated 9

No, but from CF, it isn't bad either. He also stole 668 bases and was caught only 134 times. His SB% ranks 17th all-time, granted most of the guys ahead of him had far fewer attempts.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Dont know the numbers but during the 90's id take these pitchers over appier...

John smoltz, kevin brown, david cone, mike mussina, pedro martinez, tom glavine, randy johnson...


Googled best pitchers of the 90's and thats what came up along with maddux and clemens...

Appier was 10th.

 

[Cleaves2000]

No, but from CF, it isn't bad either. He also stole 668 bases and was caught only 134 times. His SB% ranks 17th all-time, granted most of the guys ahead of him had far fewer attempts.

Once again ill use leflore.....je led the league twice in stealing...willie once.....leflore also finished 2nd twice....i think willie had one or two 2nd place finishes....willie had 213 more SB's, but played 10 more years.....leflore also played CF......and once again i believe leflore doesnt crack detroits top 30.....

Hell if were going off stealing percentages....quinten berry is a beast.....21 for 21 last year..

 

[MiamiVice]

Mauer is the franchise. I think that is clear. Him and everyone else were never "power guys". We could get guys into the 20s but never perennial.

First year at target field we still had a good lineup and won games without the long ball. All teams have struggled to hit homers at TF

Balls that are usually down in te gaps or off the wall are hanging up to be caught here. That's why it hurts guys like Mauer.

It's why he rakes at pretty much every AL east field.

You and I could hit HR in AL east parks.. they are the size of tee ball fields.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Appier had a good W-L considering he was pitching for the Royals.

From 90-97:
103-74, 3.22 ERA, 7.41 K/9, 3.04 BB/9, 0.60 HR/9, 1643.2 IP, 1.21 WHIP, 140 ERA+

Those ERAs are a lot better than you think considering how plentiful runs were in the 90's. Him (or Johnson) should have won the CYA in '93. In '96, his 3.62 ERA was good for 5th in the AL. 3.40 in '97 was good for 7th. He was just outside the top 10 in '95.

Where do you go to get certain stats for certain years? I was wondering what the players i named stats look like compared to his.....but fuck that.....thats alot of adding and dividing and this and that.......and i love numbers and stats. But WHIP? ERA+? How do you just pick 7 years out and figure all that out that quick? Do you really have a spreadsheet like smitty said?

Randy johnsons numbers looked pretty dam good.....so did david cones....hell all the pitchers i listed look good in that time span.

 

[MiamiVice]

So everyone is saying verlander sucks.....hes 12-10 with a 3.73

But appier was great between 90-97

91- 13-10 3.42
94- 7-6. 3.83
95- 15-10 3.89
96- 14-11. 3.62
97- 9-13. 3.40


I would hardly say those are great numbers....good, but not great.....if only 2 pitchers were better, i guess its because of the steroids there werent many good pitchers.

King Felix getting rocked right now.. 9 earned in 3 innings... I wonder if anyone goes on the Mariner's board to say he is done like they do about Verlander.... if you look at all the aces of teams last year.. they all are having crap years... expect Hernandez or Kershaw... until the last few starts.. and now he is too.... all the talk about Verlander is just dumb... Cain? Dickey? Holladay? Hamels? Sabathia? Lester? Cueto? Weaver? Gallardo? Gio Gonzalez.... They are all having down years... Yet people poo poo Verlander like he is the only one.. I guess that is what happens when the bar is set to the highest point like Verlander has set it... if he doesn't almost no hit people.. its a bad start... If a Royals starter can go 6 innings and give up less than 3... they threw a gem.. pretty funny stuff.

Who do you take going into next year... if you had to chose... Jeremy Guthrie? or Rick Porcello? LOL

 

[navamind]

Where do you go to get certain stats for certain years? I was wondering what the players i named stats look like compared to his.....but fuck that.....thats alot of adding and dividing and this and that.......and i love numbers and stats. But WHIP? ERA+? How do you just pick 7 years out and figure all that out that quick? Do you really have a spreadsheet like smitty said?

Randy johnsons numbers looked pretty dam good.....so did david cones....hell all the pitchers i listed look good in that time span.

You can find stats for certain time periods on Fangraphs and BB-Ref. On Fangraphs, you can sort stats and get stats for careers or whatever time periods you want. If you go to a player's page on BB-Ref, you can get their stats for multiple season. If you put your mouse over any years and click it, it'll highlight. Just click on the two years you want to use as endpoints and it should combine their stats.

If you put your mouse over the "Leaders" tab on Fangraphs, you can get stats for given years. You can also get career and stats sorted by decades.

 

[MiamiVice]

You can find stats for certain time periods on Fangraphs and BB-Ref. On Fangraphs, you can sort stats and get stats for careers or whatever time periods you want. If you go to a player's page on BB-Ref, you can get their stats for multiple season. If you put your mouse over any years and click it, it'll highlight. Just click on the two years you want to use as endpoints and it should combine their stats.

Bro.. Appier is nowhere near the 2nd best pitcher from that time period.. come on man...

 

[navamind]

Bro.. Appier is nowhere near the 2nd best pitcher from that time period.. come on man...

I didn't say he was.

 

[MiamiVice]

Flash in the pan? From 90-97, the only pitchers that were better than him were Clemens and Maddux.

My bad... he was no where near 3rd either.....

 

[MiamiVice]

Saying he was well on his way to Cooperstown lol... that is another knee slapper. Name a starting pitcher that made the HOF without winning a game in a playoff series... the dude didn't even sniff a playoff start for over a decade... Please.. show me a HOF starter that did this.. Like it or not... HOF voters don't like guys that play on crap teams.

 

[MiamiVice]

Anibal Sanchez should get his acceptance speech ready if Kevin Appier had HOF hopes through 97...

 

[navamind]

Saying he was well on his way to Cooperstown lol... that is another knee slapper. Name a starting pitcher that made the HOF without winning a game in a playoff series... the dude didn't even sniff a playoff start for over a decade... Please.. show me a HOF starter that did this.. Like it or not... HOF voters don't like guys that play on crap teams.

which goes to show that HOF voters have zero credibility.

 

[MiamiVice]

which goes to show that HOF voters have zero credibility.

LOL... stat nerds crack me up.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Appreciate your homer comment stan, very creative as many detroit fans could probably attest though i am hardly a homer, i rag on the lions all of the time but also applaud players that truly deserve it and miggy is one of those players. Questions? I didnt think so. And yes, he very well could end up as greatest hitter of all time, its not homer when its true, thanks.

 

[broncosmitty]

which goes to show that HOF voters have zero credibility.

It's this stuff that makes you The Other Guy. Oh stat nerds,.....it's fun to read how much you and the gang appreciate yourselves.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I love how stans defense toward everything is, "you are a homer, lol. Cute. Now stan if you were a fan of the orioles and were trying to tell us how manny machado was the best player of all time homer in that context would make sense. But when you are talking about a guy that very well could be best hitter of all time that isnt homerish. Im not a cardinals fan but when pujols emerged and played the first ten years or so i thought this guy will be the best hitter of all time, and he still very well could be. Guess that doesnt really make sense though because im a homer. Dont even bother to include bonds, anyone that juiced has hugely inflated stats. Bonds was awesome, its too bad he had to roid up. Now we will never know. You arent that stupid are you? If you dont consider miguel as a possibility for best hitter of all time than everything you say afterwards is pointless, and yes miggy deserved MVP last year and again this year. I understand triple crown doesnt necessarily lead to MVP, but it sure helps.

 

[MiamiVice]

Its this funny thing.. the best players are expected to make bad teams good. A player can be good.. and play on a bad team... but the best players make teams good teams. Players that make the HOF are supposed to do this.

Stats are a nice way to rank players.. but if you look at them to much.. they can make you value one player over another that is just crazy.. Some guys just win... Some just go out for personal stats and contracts... MVP and the HOF are meant for guys that lead a winning team... not just guys that have great stats... Look at your boy Trout.. two years now.. he has had good stats.. but plays on a team under performing... Its not like that team doesn't have talent.. its just a bunch of guys playing for themselves... Say what you want about stats like WAR... but when you put a guy on a list you have to take into consideration the effects he had on the team... Did his team win more because of him?

WAR says the Angels win more because of him.. I bet you $100 that you could put Torii Hunter in his spot this year.. and the team wins more... I think you could put Andy Dirks there and they win the same... He is on a team that is not winning.. Just like Appier was on a crap team... There is no stat that truly can really say how many wins above replacement a guy actually brings... Don Kelly played third with Miggy out and the team went like 6-1....

That being said... you are a clown if you say a player with similiar stats to a Derek Jeter should have equal votes for HOF... or a pitcher like Appier had a shot at the HOF over a guy like Jack Morris. Come on man.. get your head out of the stat books... I hope you are a U of M grad.. as I am an alum.. and I enjoy your love of numbers.. but seriously.. anyone that is street smart knows that numbers only can tell part of the story.. performance is more than stats.. winning is all that matters.

 

[gvsulaker82]

You name all of these players on the tigers that helped miggy are you saying the angels had nobody to help trout. Werent you just taking about how pujols is the best hitter of all time? Lol, quit contradicting yourself stan. Btw i wouldnt say broncosmitty and miami vice are boys. Haha, and oh this is the al central smack talk thread so it consists of five teams fans not one, so shoot there goes your dumb theory about groupthink or whatever. What team are you a fan of? Perhaps i should sidle on over there to see how objective you are about your players. Of course if your team has a player as elite as miguel cabrera i would probably agree with your "homerism" on there. Gee this is fun.