AL Central Smack Talk

[jdwills126]

Scherzer is in the Cy Young race regardless of his record. He's having a great season.

I don't know what your comment about stolen bases is supposed to mean or be a response to.

Why is WAR stupid? Because you don't agree with it? Because you don't value defense or baserunning? Because you don't recognize that different things are expected of players from different positions? Can you please explain how it is stupid? Do you not know what it is meant to represent?

Funny on the thread about Jeter striking out you blow off that stat. Which means a helluva a lot more than WAR. You say an out is an out.

Well K's tell people how many times he doesn't put the ball in ply on his outs. It shows he doesn't advance runners or strands guys at 3rd.

So selective stats are good? But it doesn't further your argument.

See stats can be manipulated you seem pretty good at articulating this.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Because Bourjos is possibly the best defensive outfielder in baseball and you want your best defensive outfielder in center... Seems like a pretty elementary decision to me.

Not really.....not if you already got one of the greatest defenders ever...,i mean you guys think his defense warrants an MVP.....unless bourjos is a great hitter i dont understand why you would move such a great defender to LF.....for a guy tht cant hit....better off getting a LF tht can hit and keep trout in CF.....but i guess that may be why they suck and will miss the playoffs again.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

They're boring. Misleading. Lack context. (When you pick and choose the stats, which is generally the case)Can be skewed easily. And more and more are based on conjecture. No pitcher ever toed the slab and thought, "I'm gonna improve my ERA+today". Not hitter has dug in the box with a runner on third, turned to the catcher and said, "Watch my OPS soar buddy." Players play to win. Plain and simple. Along the way, good ones put up numbers, but I don't need 1,879 different stats to evaluate who's good and who isn't. And I really don't need to read about Jeff Kent, Peter Bourjos and company on this thread. Alejandro De Aza doesn't get any pub around here anymore. I could handle reading about all he does for Ventura and the SouthSiders. (Not cleaves gang of hoodlums, the high priced little league team)

Your little diatribe about players doesn't really hold water. I wouldn't expect any player to care about their numbers at any time other than contract negotiations. Their job is to show up and perform to the best of their abilities. But that doesn't mean that fans and analysts shouldn't turn to stats to determine the quality and value of players.

 

[Cleaves2000]

If you don't think range at 3B is valuable, then you have no idea what it takes to play 3B. A 3B with great range cuts down on doubles, doesn't get beat on plays in front of him, and ranges to his left to make plays that the shortstop would have to backhand and throw across his body. Over the course of a full season that leads to a lot of outs that otherwise would have been hits and saves a good number of runs. But go ahead, downplay the importance of range. It's all about errors.

But i thought 3B wasnt a premium position like CF. yeah you need a whole lot of range at 3B....Miggy just stands there like a statue eh? Do you even watch the tigers? Besides when they kicked the yanks out of the playoffs? No wonder why u hate miggy...

 

[Cleaves2000]

So you're saying Bourjos isn't a great defensive outfielder? Or do you just not know because you don't follow baseball outside of the Tigers?

So if you know so much about baseball, how were you so off on last years MVP......obviously the people who vote AND MATTER, unlike nerds, voted miggy MVP....

Now go play with your aroid bobble head

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Not really.....not if you already got one of the greatest defenders ever...,i mean you guys think his defense warrants an MVP.....unless bourjos is a great hitter i dont understand why you would move such a great defender to LF.....for a guy tht cant hit....better off getting a LF tht can hit and keep trout in CF.....but i guess that may be why they suck and will miss the playoffs again.

Do you do anything but construct incredibly weak strawman arguments? No one ever said Trout was one of the greatest defenders ever, and no one ever said defense alone warrants an MVP, just that it should be considered (which is true and often the case).

The Angels came into the season intending to have Bourjos as one of their starting outfielders. This is indisputable fact, and it certainly has nothing to do with their failure to contend this year. Since that's the case, why would you not play him in CF when he's your best defensive outfielder? Are you suggesting that Trout should have held the position just because he's a better hitter? Since CF is the most important defensive OF position, wouldn't you want your best defender there? Not to mention, Bourjos has been a good hitter this year in an injury-shortened season.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Well he also faced much tougher competition to end the season as well than earlier on....32 of the Angels' final 58 games were against the top 4 teams in AL ERA. By comparison, 32 of the Tigers 57 games over the final 2 months were against the 5 worst team ERAs in the AL, with just 7 of those 57 games against a top 5 offense.

In the end, things will even out to a degree (although not fully because of divisional competition differences), but it can skew how a certain stretch in the season looks depending on how the schedule is setup. The Angels had a schedule where they faced a lot of good pitching to end the season, while the Tigers had the opposite.

It's obviously not the players' faults (they play whatever schedule is put before them), but numbers do need to be looked at in context to some degree. Merely saying "he hit X during this stretch" does tell the full story, because did he face bad pitching or good pitching during that stretch.

Obviously there's more to it (and it doesn't fully close the gap), but it does somewhat indicate that Trout was probably better than given credit for down the stretch.

Do you REALLY think miggy cares who is pitching......were talking MVP CONTENDERS.......IT SHOULDNT MATTER WHO THEY FACE. miggy hits anyone....anyone.......he doesnt have to hope to play this or that team.....

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Not really.....not if you already got one of the greatest defenders ever...,i mean you guys think his defense warrants an MVP.....unless bourjos is a great hitter i dont understand why you would move such a great defender to LF.....for a guy tht cant hit....better off getting a LF tht can hit and keep trout in CF.....but i guess that may be why they suck and will miss the playoffs again.

Been gone for a while and another 10 page firestorm has come around

Cleaves, I'm not joining this argument but you are completely missing the point on Bourjos. His hitting has NOTHING to do with his defense. They move trout to left when bourjos is IN the lineup. He's playing either way. You set your defense based on the 9 guys playing. Notice trout plays center when bourjos sits or is hurt?

His bat is completely irrelevant to where he plays in the field.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Thank you -- needed a good laugh today. Yeah -- I resorted to just commenting on baseball and just reading thru some of the threads on the Lions page. I love the Lions, but I can't keep my mouth shut when I read TP's assessment on the team. If the Lions were as good as he talks about them -- they are nothing more than a head coach away from being a dynasty in the NFL.

Sup miked.....yeah you were officially put into OUR gang......funny how they have the clicks, but accuse us of ganging up on tp.....i didnt even know jayfan, but got thrown into his "gang" as tp would say.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

But i thought 3B wasnt a premium position like CF. yeah you need a whole lot of range at 3B....Miggy just stands there like a statue eh? Do you even watch the tigers? Besides when they kicked the yanks out of the playoffs? No wonder why u hate miggy...

I never said you *need* range to play 3B, just that if you're going to evaluate a 3B's defense, range is an important factor. 3B is one of the few positions you can get away with limited range, which is why Cabrera can play it at all, but that doesn't mean that range shouldn't be considered or isn't important. And FWIW, Cabrera has gotten better at 3B this year. He's still really bad, but I've seen improvement. I've seen Cabrera make some really nice plays this year. He's probably better off DHing, but then they wouldn't be able to have VMart's bat in the lineup, so the trade-off is worthwhile. Of course I've seen the Tigers. They're on nationally televised games all the time, and are one of the most heavily-covered teams on MLBN's programming.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

So if you know so much about baseball, how were you so off on last years MVP......obviously the people who vote AND MATTER, unlike nerds, voted miggy MVP....

Now go play with your aroid bobble head

So I'm wrong because the BBWAA is a joke? I took a shit this morning that knew more baseball than Bill Madden.

 

[Cleaves2000]

They're boring. Misleading. Lack context. (When you pick and choose the stats, which is generally the case)Can be skewed easily. And more and more are based on conjecture. No pitcher ever toed the slab and thought, "I'm gonna improve my ERA+today". Not hitter has dug in the box with a runner on third, turned to the catcher and said, "Watch my OPS soar buddy." Players play to win. Plain and simple. Along the way, good ones put up numbers, but I don't need 1,879 different stats to evaluate who's good and who isn't. And I really don't need to read about Jeff Kent, Peter Bourjos and company on this thread. Alejandro De Aza doesn't get any pub around here anymore. I could handle reading about all he does for Ventura and the SouthSiders. (Not cleaves gang of hoodlums, the high priced little league team)

SOUTTTTTTTTH SIIIIIIIIDE!!!!

 

[Cleaves2000]

Been gone for a while and another 10 page firestorm has come around

Cleaves, I'm not joining this argument but you are completely missing the point on Bourjos. His hitting has NOTHING to do with his defense. They move trout to left when bourjos is IN the lineup. He's playing either way. You set your defense based on the 9 guys playing. Notice trout plays center when bourjos sits or is hurt?

His bat is completely irrelevant to where he plays in the field.

I dont follow the angels...they were saying they moved him to play him in CF. that hes only missed time due to injury.

So mrhockey.....youre not a tiger fan.....did you honestly think trout shouldve won MVP? And do you think theres too many nerdy stats now in baseball..

I could give a fuck about bourjos....hes in the west....but the one guy said trout because of his playing a premium position shouldve won MVP....oh and steals

 

[Cleaves2000]

Man im done......this is how much i know baseball....

Miggy wins MVP AGAIN

max wins cy young

Tigers win al central

Want iggy to win ROY, but it wouldnt be too legit as a tiger since most of his damage was done in boston.

Royals will finish with a losing record

Atlanta beats cleveland in their series

A's tigers split

Tigers end any chances the injuns had of catching them this weekend

Miggy wont win triple crown

Now ill see how well i do. And the yankees miss the playoffs.....too bad since the tigers own them lately in the playoffs....want clev or ny....no orioles

 

[broncosmitty]

Your little diatribe about players doesn't really hold water. I wouldn't expect any player to care about their numbers at any time other than contract negotiations. Their job is to show up and perform to the best of their abilities. But that doesn't mean that fans and analysts shouldn't turn to stats to determine the quality and value of players.

Whatever you say Boss. Do you, StatsMusial and the other guy ever talk stats (when I say stats I mean saberstats when youre in the convo btw)amongst the three of you? Cuz.... That would seem like a great idea to me. You three, a legal pad and a shit-ton of random numbers. You'd have a willing audience.... Huh? How bout it? Cuz I'm honestly done talking to you today, and Stats, and the other guy. (I don't talk to the other guy much anyway, I get the sense he's low man in seniority out of your crew. You could prolly drag up some interest in revisiting last years MVP over on the Angels board. (That might be tough, I haven't been to their board in awhile, but it's prolly a little quiet. Plus StatsMusial is above team boards...)

 

[da55bums]

Man im done......this is how much i know baseball....

Miggy wins MVP AGAIN

max wins cy young

Tigers win al central

Want iggy to win ROY, but it wouldnt be too legit as a tiger since most of his damage was done in boston.

Royals will finish with a losing record

Atlanta beats cleveland in their series

A's tigers split

Tigers end any chances the injuns had of catching them this weekend

Miggy wont win triple crown

Now ill see how well i do. And the yankees miss the playoffs.....too bad since the tigers own them lately in the playoffs....want clev or ny....no orioles

wow, Cleves, your a regular Jimmy the Greek.....

Everyone knows Miggy will win MVP...unless Baltimore wins the world series...then Davis has a great shot.

Everyone knows Max is in the running for the Cy young...and its only down to 3 pitchers....way to go out on a limb again...

Tigers win AL Central....how many game lead by the end of Aug...and now your predicting it...again, your calling your shot as the ball is already in the air and everyone in the stadium knows its going out...


Iggy as ROY....obviously the most moronic statement of the bunch..he will be lucky to stay above .290 with little else for the rest of the regular season.

ATL, the team with the best record in the league, will win their current series....like they have almost against EVERYONE they have played.

Royals will finish with a losing record....the same as....Tigers will not win a World Series...the same odds...lol

Miggy won't win the triple crown...yeah tough prediction...been done once in 40 years...2 times in 2 seasons...should be an easy prediction before the season started...

your a gambler, I can tell by your ability to see into the future and how you take so much risks with your predictions....

Hey, I am going to predict some things...

The Sun will come up in the East in the morning.

It will rain when the clouds are dark grey to almost black.

Jerry Springer will go down in history being known for being a great attorney (yes, he does have a law degree)

The country's budget will never be balanced again.

its a tough job predicting but I see how much easier you make it....lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

Man im done......this is how much i know baseball....

Miggy wins MVP AGAIN

max wins cy young

Tigers win al central

Want iggy to win ROY, but it wouldnt be too legit as a tiger since most of his damage was done in boston.

Royals will finish with a losing record

Atlanta beats cleveland in their series

A's tigers split

Tigers end any chances the injuns had of catching them this weekend

Miggy wont win triple crown

Now ill see how well i do. And the yankees miss the playoffs.....too bad since the tigers own them lately in the playoffs....want clev or ny....no orioles

Damn! You're a baseball genius!

 

[broncosmitty]

Voting is before the playoffs start... Os winning anything other than their division wouldn't come into play. KC excited for Carlos Pena? I think Mayor of Cincinnati when I think Jerry Springer. Then I think about whores soon afterwards. (That may or may not be on account of Jerry)

 

[bksballer89]

Verlander is done

 

[Nosferatu]

Verlander is done

Jack Clark thinks there is a reason for that... Kinda makes one wonder.