AL Central Smack Talk

[Cleaves2000]

Tigers lineup wasnt all that great last year....raturd was at 2nd....boesch in right....fat ass delmon batting 5th...peralta had a down year.....avila sucked bad.....ajax was just OK.... Outside of fielder, who else was so great last year? Trout had good players on his team also.

Most of trouts stats in his favor are speed stats....so miggy grounded into Dp's.....oh well...hes not a speed demon....he also hits lights out with RISP...just because trout has more stolen bases and plays great defense doesnt make him the MVP.....Trout is good...pretty damn good....but miggy is from another planet.....hes got video game stats.

Welcome back royal fan....i see KC got a win today....2 in a row? Uh oh, watch out.....its almost next year....and just.....WAIT....we know we know.....wait til next year.

Almost glad the tigers lost....this board was awful quiet....gotta loose a few to reel em back in, just to crush their dreams AGAIN.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Lol no. And he wasn't better than Bonds.

Wow youre the first person i heard say that....especially since bonds cheated....id take miggy over bonds 10 times outta 10.

 

[navamind]

Austin Jackson was OK? He was a CF batting .300/.377/.479 with an OPS+ of 130 and good defense. He had a great year.

Either you have very high standards or you're just clueless.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Compare miggys first 11 years to bonds first 11 years....since people on here like to do that with AP and barry sanders....miggy is batting 23 points higher for a career.....bonds had more power AFTER he juiced up....but it doesnt matter.....bonds is a juicer.....if miggy is proven to be a cheater like peralta, i wont consider him great either...

 

[StanMarsh51]

Wow youre the first person i heard say that....especially since bonds cheated....id take miggy over bonds 10 times outta 10.

And 10 times out of 10 the Tigers fan will seemingly take the Tigers player...is that an indicator of objectiveness?

Shoot, I remember in '07 when Tiger fans tried to argue Magglio for MVP, and the only 2 first place votes Magglio received were from the 2 Detroit writers...obviously now we know A-Rod cheated so it's a different story, but back then when we didn't, Tiger fans chose Magglio for the sole fact that he was a Tiger...were you in that same group?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Compare miggys first 11 years to bonds first 11 years....since people on here like to do that with AP and barry sanders....miggy is batting 23 points higher for a career.....bonds had more power AFTER he juiced up....but it doesnt matter.....bonds is a juicer.....if miggy is proven to be a cheater like peralta, i wont consider him great either...

How about you compare Miggy's first 11 years to Pujols, and then say Cabrera's the best hitter you've ever seen?

Do you not agree that Pujols after 11 seasons had better numbers than Cabrera?

 

[navamind]

Compare miggys first 11 years to bonds first 11 years....since people on here like to do that with AP and barry sanders....miggy is batting 23 points higher for a career.....bonds had more power AFTER he juiced up....but it doesnt matter.....bonds is a juicer.....if miggy is proven to be a cheater like peralta, i wont consider him great either...

Bonds had a higher OPS+ than Miggy in their first 11 seasons.

And maybe you should try comparing the career numbers of Pujols and Miggy.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Austin Jackson was OK? He was a CF batting .300/.377/.479 with an OPS+ of 130 and good defense. He had a great year.

Either you have very high standards or you're just clueless.

Yup he missed alot of time. Like 30 or so games.....thats when quentin berry stepped in and sparked the team....he didnt have great stats...still strikes out alot for a leadoff hitter....and still doesnt steal bases...

But it doesnt matter....without miggy, the tigers dont make the playoffs....or the WS.....without trout the angels wouldnt had made the playoffs....oh wait....they didnt.....they wont this year either.

Miggy=MVP X 2

 

[navamind]

Lol. Jackson missed 25 games. He had 617 PA last year. He even finished 8th among AL players in WAR last year.

And a leadoff hitter's job is to get on base. And Jackson was 8th in the AL in OBP. So he was doing pretty good at his job.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Bonds had a higher OPS+ than Miggy in their first 11 seasons.

And maybe you should try comparing the career numbers of Pujols and Miggy.

"Through 1,620 games, Miguel Cabrera has 1,952 hits, 408 doubles, 14 triples, 357 HR and 1,233 RBI. He has been walked 778 times, intentionally 175. The nice thing about 10 full seasons is that you can just move the decimal point over to find averages. That's 195 hits, 41 doubles, 36 HR and 123 RBI, on average, each full season.

And that is pretty impressive.

What about rate stats and averages? For his career: He has batted.321 with .399 OBP and .569 slugging. That's .969 OPS. His career OPS+ -- which compares him to league average and adjusts for his home ballpark(s) -- is 155. (Remember: average is 100.)

That leads one to wonder: What peers might you find during the history of the game?

Hank Aaron is the first that comes to mind, since his name was often the one that came up in systems like Baseball Prospects' PECOTA. During his first 1,620 games, Aaron hit .319/.375/.566 with an average 36 home runs and 119 RBI per 162 games. Through age 30, his OPS+ was 157. Frank Robinson (a Triple Crown winner like Cabrera) had an OPS+ of 154 through his age 30 season. He hit .304/.390/.560 during his first 1,620 games, averaging 36 HR and 110 RBI per 162 games. Here's another: Willie Mays had an OPS+ of 160 during his first 1,620 games. He batted .313/.388/.582 and had 38 HR and 112 RBI per 162 games.

So by those measures, Cabrera is actually ahead of a few of the game's all-time greats and in the ballpark with another. Of course, he does lag quite a bit behind Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams or Babe Ruth, whose numbers look like they were playing the game on the "easy" setting.

And what about comparing Cabrera to a few modern players? Albert Pujols is the standard bearer here. Pujols has a career OPS+ of 165 and 162-game averages of 41 HR and 124 RBI. During his first 1,620 games, his line was .329/.423/.619 with an average 43 home runs and 127 RBI. Cabrera remains ahead of of the pace Bonds set during his early ears: .288/.405/.547 with 34 HR and 101 RBI per 162 games. (Of course we know what happened during Bonds' later years ... .) Frank Thomas is an interesting one. He hit .316/.434/.572 with 36 home runs and 124 RBI per 162 games. His OPS+ was about 165 -- just above Cabrera's 164 during his time in Detroit though comfortably ahead of Cabrera's complete works."

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yup he missed alot of time. Like 30 or so games.....thats when quentin berry stepped in and sparked the team....he didnt have great stats...still strikes out alot for a leadoff hitter....and still doesnt steal bases...

But it doesnt matter....without miggy, the tigers dont make the playoffs....or the WS.....without trout the angels wouldnt had made the playoffs....oh wait....they didnt.....they wont this year either.

Miggy=MVP X 2

Without Verlander, the Tigers don't make the playoffs either, so what's the point?

When did making the playoffs become a requirement to win MVP? If you've followed baseball outside of Detroit in the 2000s, you'd know that 5x in the 2000s did the MVP winner come from a non-playoff team.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Lol. Jackson missed 25 games. He had 617 PA last year. He even finished 8th among AL players in WAR last year.

And a leadoff hitter's job is to get on base. And Jackson was 8th in the AL in OBP. So he was doing pretty good at his job.

Just saying.....the tigers got hot without him.....berry took over for him and the tigers took off...if miggy went down that many games, the tigers wouldnt had made the playoffs

 

[Cleaves2000]

Without Verlander, the Tigers don't make the playoffs either, so what's the point?

When did making the playoffs become a requirement to win MVP? If you've followed baseball outside of Detroit in the 2000s, you'd know that 5x in the 2000s did the MVP winner come from a non-playoff team.

"It is much rarer for an American League MVP to come from a team that didn't make the playoffs. It only happened in the wild card era when Alex Rodriguez won in 2003 for the Rangers, in a controversial decision where Rodriguez's stats were too big to ignore."

 

[StanMarsh51]

Frank Thomas is an interesting one. He hit .316/.434/.572 with 36 home runs and 124 RBI per 162 games. His OPS+ was about 165 -- just above Cabrera's 164 during his time in Detroit though comfortably ahead of Cabrera's complete works."

If you're going to directly quote an article that claims Frank Thomas was better at this point his in career than Cabrera was, how can you possibly say that Cabrera's the best hitter you've ever seen?

You logic doesn't add up now.

 

[Cleaves2000]

I could be wrong but i found that in an article....miggy plays in the AL......only happened once i see

 

[StanMarsh51]

"It is much rarer for an American League MVP to come from a team that didn't make the playoffs. It only happened in the wild card era when Alex Rodriguez won in 2003 for the Rangers, in a controversial decision where Rodriguez's stats were too big to ignore."

Correlation does not equal causation....statistics 101. You really think the NL voters are consistently using a different critera than the AL voters? I know you're not this stupid.

 

[navamind]

Just saying.....the tigers got hot without him.....berry took over for him and the tigers took off...if miggy went down that many games, the tigers wouldnt had made the playoffs

Um... the Tigers were 8-13 during Jackson's DL stint. They were 18-19 when Jackson got hurt and they were 26-32 when he returned.

 

[Cleaves2000]

If you're going to directly quote an article that claims Frank Thomas was better at this point his in career than Cabrera was, how can you possibly say that Cabrera's the best hitter you've ever seen?

You logic doesn't add up now.

It is what it is....i think miggy is better than frank....we will see how it pans out....must be tiring haring on the tigers eh? See you have no team....must be a KC fan? Cleveland?

Just make ure and come back when miggy wins his 2nd MVP.....He will.....i guarantee it.....this year is better than last years

 

[navamind]

It is what it is....i think miggy is better than frank....we will see how it pans out....must be tiring haring on the tigers eh? See you have no team....must be a KC fan? Cleveland?

Just make ure and come back when miggy wins his 2nd MVP.....He will.....i guarantee it.....this year is better than last years

He isn't a fan of any AL Central teams.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Correlation does not equal causation....statistics 101. You really think the NL voters are consistently using a different critera than the AL voters? I know you're not this stupid.

It only happened ONCE in the AL.....they must...they play by different rules....so maybe they do.....all i know is it only happened once....and that was one of the issues with trout last year.