AL Central Smack Talk

[Howie115]

I know you omitted 2009, but Jacob Turner was drafted by the Tigers that year and is already doing quite well in the Marlins rotation.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Porcello should have been developed in the minors.. and called up this year.. if that happened.. he would look amazing to Tigers fans and you would all be nutting your pants for the 24 year old with legit potential.

What would look amazing about Porcello, based on his performance this year?

Vice, you know we see eye to eye on just about everything regarding the team. This is really the only thing we've disagreed on, so I'm just curious what it is you see on Porcello. Maybe I am just missing something on him.

I think he is a good pitcher for his role on the team. I think he will have a long career if he continues to be as durable as he has been. I just don't see him as a top end starter, unless he finds himself an out pitch.

 

[MiamiVice]

I know you omitted 2009, but Jacob Turner was drafted by the Tigers that year and is already doing quite well in the Marlins rotation.

I don't know why I keep forgetting about Turner... He may be the best Tiger's draft pick since Verlander when it is all said and done...

Also didn't mention Brian Flynn.. the third piece to the trade for Sanchez and Infante... Brian Flynn is forgotten because most tigers fans knew about turner and brantley.. but Flynn is completely dominating for the marlins aaa team this year... is 23 yrs old.. was a 2011 pick and could be a solid #3/4 starter as soon as next year.

Its funny... teams like the tigers get just as much value out of their 2nd. 3rd. 7th. 10th round picks as fecal teams like the royals get out out their first rounders... Think about this...the tigers did not have a first round pick in 2010, 2011, or 2012... I am willing to bet that Tigers 2012 first pick.. which was Jake Thompson in the 2nd round will be a better pro than Bubba Starling...

 

[MiamiVice]

What would look amazing about Porcello, based on his performance this year?

Vice, you know we see eye to eye on just about everything regarding the team. This is really the only thing we've disagreed on, so I'm just curious what it is you see on Porcello. Maybe I am just missing something on him.

I think he is a good pitcher for his role on the team. I think he will have a long career if he continues to be as durable as he has been. I just don't see him as a top end starter, unless he finds himself an out pitch.

He doesn't need to be a top end starter.. if he has a couple good years.. that is fine.. but if he can get his era under 4 and throw for 200 innings... that is all he is needed for. My point is.. he has just as much potential to get better as a guy like Kyle Gibson.. who has been god awful.. but is still thought of as a prospect because he came up this year... yet he is 25 and a year older than Porcello.

I never thought Porcello would be an ace.. however I do see All Star potential as his ceiling. His floor is what you are seeing now.. which in all honesty is not that bad. If by the time Porcello is 26/27 he has not figured it out.. I will say he is what he is and will not get better.. but at the age of 24.. he is at the same stage as most top prospects coming up this year.. you just have watched him develop in every start instead of him doing it in the minors.. where very few people pay attention.. do you think Porcello could go to aa or aaa where most guys his age are and dominate? I do. I bet if you put him in AAA his era would be in the high 2's or low 3's for sure. And people would be nutting themselves with his potential. He has developed against major league hitters that can make even a small mistake look bad.. and right in front of your eyes to see. What part of that don't fans understand.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Hey... Look who is back!!! I was worried you jumped off the bandwagon!

You're the only bandwagon fan here. And I have really avoiding some of these Tig fans. Some bandwagonners and they think the season is over already

 

[MiamiVice]

You're the only bandwagon fan here. And I have really avoiding some of these Tig fans. Some bandwagonners and they think the season is over already

LOL.. you crack me up.. I bet I know more about the Cleveland Indians than you do... heck I know I know more about the Tigers than you know about the Indians... So I guess that means that a bandwagon fan knows more than you huh shaney poo... By the way.. your team is horrible and will end up lucky to be in 3rd place..

 

[Shanemansj13]

LOL.. you crack me up.. I bet I know more about the Cleveland Indians than you do... heck I know I know more about the Tigers than you know about the Indians... So I guess that means that a bandwagon fan knows more than you huh shaney poo... By the way.. your team is horrible and will end up lucky to be in 3rd place..

I was going to Indians' games before I could walk. Lucky to get 3rd??

So you are saying that KC will pass us and the Twins could too. Yep, you know a shit ton.

5.5 back...better cross your fingers, especially if Miguel goes out for some time

 

[MiamiVice]

Lets talk about Swisher and his awesome stats and even more awesome contract.. or Ubaldo and his failure to be better than a 5th level starter... or Chris Perez.. he has been good lately... why not talk about your ace being masterson.. who at best would be the tigers 5th best starter... or how Michael Bourn is hitting .192 in the month of Aug... or how your DH is 78 years old and hitting .188...

Good thing the all star game was in mid july.. because Kipnis wouldn't be on the team if they voted now.... He has been anus as well..

Come on shane.. lets talk Indians baseball!

 

[MiamiVice]

I was going to Indians' games before I could walk. Lucky to get 3rd??

So you are saying that KC will pass us and the Twins could too. Yep, you know a shit ton.

5.5 back...better cross your fingers, especially if Miguel goes out for some time

Yes.. I am saying the Royals will pass you... that is precisely what I am saying shane.. good for you.. you can figure simple stuff out. Nothing the Indians have on their team.. pitching nor hitting suggests they are going to make a run... tigers could sit Miggy for the next month and still have a better offense than the Indians.. and just so you know... they win with starting pitching... not just miggys 4/5 at bats per game...

 

[MiamiVice]

I love when people say the tigers would not be good without Miggy.. like vmart, fielder, hunter, ajax, and infante are horrible.. lol.. if they were so bad.. why do teams not just walk miggy every at bat?

 

[MiamiVice]

shane was on the tigers board about a month back trolling tigers fans.. now he is avoiding us? Odd... Wonder if that has anything to do with his teams performance

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I never thought Porcello would be an ace.. however I do see All Star potential as his ceiling. His floor is what you are seeing now.. which in all honesty is not that bad. If by the time Porcello is 26/27 he has not figured it out.. I will say he is what he is and will not get better.. but at the age of 24.. he is at the same stage as most top prospects coming up this year.. you just have watched him develop in every start instead of him doing it in the minors.. where very few people pay attention.. do you think Porcello could go to aa or aaa where most guys his age are and dominate? I do. I bet if you put him in AAA his era would be in the high 2's or low 3's for sure. And people would be nutting themselves with his potential. He has developed against major league hitters that can make even a small mistake look bad.. and right in front of your eyes to see. What part of that don't fans understand.

I can respect that. I do understand he is still young, but I've tempered my expectations for him after getting to watch him pitch for so long.

I'm going to have to see Porcello actually hold teams down consistently to have him change my mind on him. A career .288 BA against makes it tough to be consistent, which is why he is such an up and down pitcher.

Unless he develops a strike out pitch -- I think we are going to see much of the same from him. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as he fills his role on the Tigers nicely as the 5th starter.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Cleves...I didn't get to ask you...

when you were back in the home land..the great state of Michigan..
did you make the homage to the Big House?????
did you kneel down and weep at the home of the champions????

Ummmmm no........went straight to detroit, and hung out downtown.......didnt even head that way.....i dont care for the smell of skunkweasels.......makes detroit smell like roses. Thought about stopping by e lansing on the way back to muskegon the next day.....just to kneel down at the statue of magic....and weep for the 79 and 2000 champions. Magic and mateen, now they HAD heart!

 

[Cleaves2000]

he is a 5th starter.. pretty good one to.
gives us innings all year. wasn't hurt. plus.
maybe he can be used out of the bull pen in the post season.

trade him and who you going to get as a 5th starter?????? Tigers could do a lot worse

I actually agree with a dougie post 100 percent!

 

[MiamiVice]

I can respect that. I do understand he is still young, but I've tempered my expectations for him after getting to watch him pitch for so long.

I'm going to have to see Porcello actually hold teams down consistently to have him change my mind on him. A career .288 BA against makes it tough to be consistent, which is why he is such an up and down pitcher.

Unless he develops a strike out pitch -- I think we are going to see much of the same from him. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as he fills his role on the Tigers nicely as the 5th starter.

His strike out rates are up this year... that being said... If you watched Chris Archer pitch in the majors since he was 20.. do you think people would be as high on him? How about Smyly? You have to understand how hard it is to pitch at the MLB level to the best hitters in the world.. and how much harder that is for a guy learning to do it there. Very few guys in history came up as young as Porcello did and pitched well right away. Porcello is never going to be Clayton Kershaw... Or Nolan Ryan.. but he could easily become an all star caliber pitcher that is consistently putting up 200 innings a year and winning double digit games.. with an era under 3.5... I would say Porcello's most likely comparable will be Doug Fister.. a guy that didn't put it together until he was in his late 20's... and now is a solid middle of the rotation starter. You are looking at his floor.. a back of the rotation innings eater that has an era over 4. I doubt it happens.. but it is not out of the question for Porcello to still put it all together and become a solid top of the rotation starter.. however.. I think for that to happen.. he would have to move to the NL and be on a team with great defense around him.

If you notice.. Porcello is getting killed by infield hits and bloop singles.. I don't think that happens forever... and as I mentioned.. his k's per 9 innings is up to career highes.. and have been going up for years... He gives up very few extra base hits.. all in all.. the kid has a ton of time to keep getting better... and I think he will.

 

[MiamiVice]

Food for thought.. 4 more k's and Porcello will set a career high in strike outs in a season.. and its still aug... if that doesn't speak volumes about his rise in k's per 9.. i don't know what does.

 

[Cleaves2000]

FWIW, Porcello's shown improvement in his peripherals. His 6.92 K/9 is (by far) the highest of his major league career. It's higher than anything he posted in the minors as well. He's also done a good job limiting walks (2.00 BB/9 this year, career 2.29 BB/9). He does have a 56% groundball rate as well. His FIP this year is 3.46 and xFIP is at 3.25, all of which are easily career bests.

I always thought he was a little overhyped, but I could see him breaking out next year.

I dont know about breaking out....my thoughts on porrtabello....hes still young....in the AL his ceiling is a 3-4.....in the NL a 2-3 starter.....pitchers extend careers by becoming crafty with age. With porcello learning at the MLB level he has alot more to learn. I remember when zach randolph left sparty after his frosh year and went to portland....he barely played the first few years....friends of mine that liked UM used to have fun talking shit saying how stupid he was....but he went and learned in the NBA instead of dominating college...once rasheed left, zach blew up.....porcello is like that....instead of learning in the minors, hes learned from the best. Experience alone is worth that. Porcellos chance at reaching a high ceiling doesnt rely on an OUT pitch....he needs to pitch smart or crafty like maddux, moyer, or tanana.....if he tries to become a power pitcher i dont think he will be too good. Just my opinion....i dont mind him as our 5th starter. Gives us a pretty good 1-5.

When ricks bad, hes usually real bad.....so his ERA is a little misleading...ill take 2 bad outings, followed my 5 QS from my 5th starter any season. Seems like rick will give up 8 in a game, then throw a few good games..

 

[Cleaves2000]

Food for thought.. 4 more k's and Porcello will set a career high in strike outs in a season.. and its still aug... if that doesn't speak volumes about his rise in k's per 9.. i don't know what does.

They were saying yesterday he dropped a pitch from his arsenal to concentrate more on the others. And its worked well.....forgot what pitch it was....slider?

 

[MiamiVice]

Also.. Porcello has given up less extra base hits than Verlander.. another stat to take into account.

 

[Cleaves2000]

78 yr old DH....... now that was pretty funny.......more like......78 yr old DH no longer roided up....