AL Central Smack Talk

[MiamiVice]

Your pointless obsession with KC continues. You say KC will get worse, I may as well say all the prospects pan out too as you love to take that bait. KC will be fine, stick to your own team, MiamiVice.

My attention I pay to KC comes from CBS royals fans such as da55bums. They are complete idiots. You seem to be somewhat in reality..

Please tell me where I am wrong about KC taking a step back.. they are going to almost certainly lose Santana... and if they don't they are going to have to invest in an over 30 starter that had one complete legit season.. and pray for the best...

They are going to have to rely on Guthrie who is showing who he really is.. a 4.5 era type...

They will have Duffy and some other weak starter in the back end.. and will be paying millions to Wade Davis... so he will most likely be there too...

The only bright spot in the rotation going into next year is Shields.. and he will be another year older.. what 33?

Butler is regressing.. and Gordon has peaked... Even with Hosmer keeping up... you have nothing else on offense that scares anyone.

I speak the truth. If you think Dayton Moore is going to win the lotto again and trade for or sign a guy like Santana again this offseason you have select memory.. he is a horrible GM that lucked into getting a guy like Santana who never put together a legit season before his contract season... They will plug the hole with some crap guy that will give you a stellar 4+ era and you will revert back to falling out of contention by July... It is what it is.. you can't compete long term without starting pitching.. and you have nothing of any legit value to lean on coming up next year.. if you think Duffy is going to replace Santana and deliver the playoffs.. you are crazy.

 

[MiamiVice]

How is it that Dayton Moore had a top 10 pick for the last decade.. and he has almost no starting pitching prospects to talk about.. I mean.. I think about that all the time.. How does a team that bad not draft a few guys that can be average or better starters.. when the royals can put out more talent in one year than the royals do in 10 with later draft picks.. They don't have a single home developed starter out fo the rotation.. unless you count duffy.. and he is nothing to brag about if you have picked that high for that long... I don't get it.. would love to have it explained to me.

 

[CaptO]

LOL.. very convenient... I guess having a second team to fall back on that is continually one of the highest spenders in baseball isn't such a bad idea when you your first team is the Indians.

This idea just makes no sense to me.. of having a "second team"... that means you are a half ass fan of both. I am a Tigers fan... but I live in Miami.. I pay attention to the Marlins... I would never in any situation put them above the Tigers... You are either a fan or you are not.. there is no one team is not winning so I will go to the one that is crap... that is just weak sauce.. and I am sure just about everyone here will agree.

Shit bag fans have two teams... I have more respect for a clown like quest that is a homer to the end than a guy that shifts from one to another.

Vice - you are seriously a dumb fuck. Were the Sox one of the highest spenders when I was 7? Shit, I wouldnt of had a clue back then, but looking back Id hardly say so. That they became one in later years...well, thats the way it goes. Not my fault

Back in 07 - when we were playing the Sox for the ALCS & they won - I was pissing mad over it for a cpl yrs. Ask ANYBODY that knows me well. Tribe is ALWAYS 1st. ALWAYS. I will watch & root for them every damn game thats left. Ill also root for the Sox to take the East. If they dont...thats the way it goes

& - like last year - in the playoffs I will root for ANYBODY but the Tigers...if only because of asshats like you

 

[MiamiVice]

How is it the Marlins can have 5 young starters.. all with potential.. come up this year... that were either drafted by them.. or obtained in a trade.. but the Royals can't get anything more than Duffy.. in years of drafting high. I just can't understand it... It makes no sense... The amount of above average MLB level starting pitching teams like the Marlins, Rays, and A's can pump out in one year is more than the Royals will produce in a decade...

Dayton Moore everyone.. clap for him.

 

[MiamiVice]

Vice - you are seriously a dumb fuck. Were the Sox one of the highest spenders when I was 7? Shit, I wouldnt of had a clue back then, but looking back Id hardly say so. That they became one in later years...well, thats the way it goes. Not my fault

Back in 07 - when we were playing the Sox for the ALCS & they won - I was pissing mad over it for a cpl yrs. Ask ANYBODY that knows me well. Tribe is ALWAYS 1st. ALWAYS. I will watch & root for them every damn game thats left. Ill also root for the Sox to take the East. If they dont...thats the way it goes

& - like last year - in the playoffs I will root for ANYBODY but the Tigers...if only because of asshats like you

It doesn't matter.. its one team or the other... flat out.. there is no second team.. the fact you don't understand that is the funniest part.. It seems most people agree with me... I don't care what your childhood had... if you are a Red Sox fan.. you are a Red Sox fan.. if you are an Indians fan.. You are and Indians fan... you can pay attention to other teams.. but openly rooting for a team that can affect your favorite team? Bro.. I don't think you see how funny it is for you to jump over to the Red Sox bandwagon as soon as you fall in a series to the Tigers to knock you 6 back in the division... Eveyone here saw that.

 

[Nosferatu]

What's sad is my Twins have had a difficult time with starting pitching for a while too...

 

[Nosferatu]

IMO I can understand having a 2nd team, but too me that makes you not a diehard fan of team #1... I can understand rooting for a team if they are playing a division rival or something. Just my unwanted 2 cents...

 

[MiamiVice]

What's sad is my Twins have had a difficult time with starting pitching for a while too...

Twins have developed way more mlb starting pitching than the royals have in the last decade...

 

[MiamiVice]

Name a guy outside of Greinke that came out of the KC farm and started for them that is on another team currently... I can name a few for the twins.. the tigers don't have any starting.. but have Furbush and Miller... I can't think of any from the Royals other than Greinke.. not one. Help me out here.

The Indians, White Sox, and Twins all have produced a few starters that had long careers or were above average.. The Tigers have a few also.. and traded away Miller who has been decent out of the pen and Turner who looks like a legit future All Star in the NL.

It really speaks to what is wrong in KC... they can't develop starting pitching.. or anything really with consistency. If you are a small market team with a low payroll.. you better be able to develop talent or you will be the Royals.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

My attention I pay to KC comes from CBS royals fans such as da55bums. They are complete idiots. You seem to be somewhat in reality..

Please tell me where I am wrong about KC taking a step back.. they are going to almost certainly lose Santana... and if they don't they are going to have to invest in an over 30 starter that had one complete legit season.. and pray for the best...

They are going to have to rely on Guthrie who is showing who he really is.. a 4.5 era type...

They will have Duffy and some other weak starter in the back end.. and will be paying millions to Wade Davis... so he will most likely be there too...

The only bright spot in the rotation going into next year is Shields.. and he will be another year older.. what 33?

Butler is regressing.. and Gordon has peaked... Even with Hosmer keeping up... you have nothing else on offense that scares anyone.

I speak the truth. If you think Dayton Moore is going to win the lotto again and trade for or sign a guy like Santana again this offseason you have select memory.. he is a horrible GM that lucked into getting a guy like Santana who never put together a legit season before his contract season... They will plug the hole with some crap guy that will give you a stellar 4+ era and you will revert back to falling out of contention by July... It is what it is.. you can't compete long term without starting pitching.. and you have nothing of any legit value to lean on coming up next year.. if you think Duffy is going to replace Santana and deliver the playoffs.. you are crazy.

I do have to admit that a great deal of success will rely on atleast 1-2 out of Duffy, Paulino, Zimmer, and Ventura succeeding in some fashion. Ventura could probably be called up right now if the Royals really wanted to, but I would obviously just wait until September 1st. Losing Santana is probable, but he should atleast net a draft pick which isn't the worst thing considering what happened in hindsight right after the ASB.

Hosmer has been hitting like the 25-30 Homer player the Royals have hoped for since June 1 of this year, but it definitely won't mean much if Butler (who finally has some protection) and Gordon fall off a cliff in terms of production which is possible, but I doubt that at this point in time.

Moustakas remains a very streaky player which really isn't what the Royals want/need from 3rd base. Around .180 with limited power up to June, but then hits .275ish with power since then to get to .230. If he can't become a consistent hitter, his value really isn't worth too outside of defense.

I am not going to argue Santana's production can/will be matched from the #2 spot, I am instead thinking/hoping that the Royals will just replace Davis with what should be a competent #4 which would add 2-3 wins considering how bad Davis is. One would think that wouldn't be hard to do, but the Royals are geniuses at quashing optimism. Keep in mind that Davis was approaching -2 war at one point... that is beyond horrific.

If the Royals match the pitching numbers from this year, it will because the production from the #4 and #5 starts will be much better. Losing Santana is a big concern though. I don't think I can sit here and say the Royals have a great shot at signing Santana.

--Guthrie was overpaid, I won't really dispute that. He is average at best right now and will decline until he is cut loose after 2015.

I don't think Gordon has peaked, his babip has been very low for much of the slump which has been below .200. It isn't really fair to say that Gordon will decline starting now, but it certainly is around the corner assuming he follows a typical aging curve. The same could be said for Butler if he doesn't start hitting more extra base hits with protection.

Butler is being pitched around in my opinion, he has had horrible protection in the lineup for most of the season. If the numbers persist into next year, then I will worry about him.

Dayton is an idiot when it comes to trades... given. If Dayton fucks up the next few offseasons when he has a real incentive to make REAL moves to win... then I will be upset ( And yes, the Myers trade looks stupid now)

If the Royals somehow sign Santana ( TV contract money?) I imagine (who the hell knows what Moore is thinking) Hocheaver is dumped along with Getz. Davis moves to the pen to replace Hocheaver. Tejada, Franker, and Elliot Johnson may as well be gone. The Royals then call up Colon to replace Getz ( Yuck, but Getz sucks quite a bit). That saves some deal of money, but I would figure that Santana's price tag will be at some astronomical figure beyond anything reasonable.

The Royals are really in a delicate long-term situation right now. Dayton Moore could kill or grow the team rather quickly depending on the moves he makes. I won't say the Royals will move forward as a winner, it is far too murky at the moment. Same goes for saying they won't succeed, too many variables at the moment. I don't blame you for thinking it won't work out. Many Royals fans have chased that carrot for an awful long time now. Far too murky to tell what is going to happen in 2-3 years and beyond. Could really go either way.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Probably should have proofread the above post, but it is what it is I suppose.

 

[MiamiVice]

I don't think you are getting it.. Guthrie is not going to get better... Santana is having an amazing season that neither he nor who ever the Royals get will most likely be able to replicate.. You are right that who ever takes Davis spot can't be worse... But I don't think Duffy, Paulino, Smith, or any of the others are going to be a huge leap above him.

Butler has peaked.. That has nothing to do with who is batting behind him.. he is a 15-20 hr tops guy that will hit .280 next season... Gordon is a great defender that will hit .280... You have nothing in your system, nor in the current lineup that is a great offensive player.. other than maybe Hosmer.. and even he has holes in his bat. No teams pitchers fear the royals lineup.. its why they have some of the best pitching stats in the AL and have no shot at the playoffs.

The Royals pitchers produced way above their career numbers this season... Even Guthrie to this point... which is sad. You will see regression.. none of the pitchers you spoke of are going to be anything more than a solid 3 in the mlb.. not me.. scouts say it... Paulino is trash that had a couple good weeks for you guys. but is a career turd not even worth talking about.

The only way the Royals are in the race as long as they were this year in 2014... is if Moore pulls another rabbit out of his hat like the deals of Sanatana and Shields... and guess what.. you don't have another Wil Myers..

Flat out... as good as the Royals farm always claims to be.. they are not filled with difference makers.. especially not at starter... I actually hope the Royals resign Santana... it would be hilarious.. give him a nice big contract.. Royals fans would be hating it from day 2... because if you look at his career numbers.. he is not going to keep this up.. he is 30.. guys don't just become legit starters at that age.. flukes happen.. and flukes tend to sort themselves out.

 

[MiamiVice]

GM's that make the mistake of trying to chase a few extra wins in aug and sept and not trading assets away to contenders to add to their team stay crappy fringe teams at best...

There is just no way that the Royals can contend for a division title or wc for that matter with Moore running the show. He is clueless.. All he can produce contentiously is relief pitching... which most teams scouts refer to as failed starting pitching prospects.

 

[Nosferatu]

This thread has turned into the Vice tearing the shit out of every team in the Central not named the Tigers thread... Yawn

 

[MiamiVice]

The smartest move the Royals could do to actually contend is to try to trade Billy Butler away to a team like the Rays that need a DH and get some young pitching talent back. Anyone for that matter that would trade the Royals a legit MLB ready starter for Butler should be called... He and Holland are luxuries for a team like the Royals.. both should be used to get the team into contention... I doubt they will do it.. But a team like the Royals need pitching more than they need a guy that only plays dh or a closer.. when they have a million failed starting pitching prospects that should be able to fill the role of closer.

 

[MiamiVice]

This thread has turned into the Vice tearing the shit out of every team in the Central not named the Tigers thread... Yawn

That happens when the rest of the teams are mostly crap bottom feeders like the twins and chi sox.

 

[Nosferatu]

That happens when the rest of the teams are mostly crap bottom feeders like the twins and chi sox.

Yeah, unlike the Tigers who have won multiple Championships in recent years...

 

[MiamiVice]

Teams like the Astros, Pirates, Marlins, Mets... they have a lot of hope for the future with prospects in every major position... young studs that are rookies proving themselves to be solid.... and the prospects of adding payroll to shore up holes... they will be the next wave of teams that give the big payroll teams fits.. and in the case of the mets.. will become big spenders themselves...

Teams like the Twins have a little to be excited about.. but need to add a front line starter prospect to really have something to build on... The white sox have a few young arms... and just need a couple of position players to pop.. which is easier to find than pitcher.. so they have something to be happy with... the Indians have a few prospects here and there that can help them maintain.. I just don't see much on the horizon in KC to get them over the top...

Tigers have the luxury no team in the central has right now.. time.. they have time to rebuild their farm because most of their mlb roster is still reasonably young. Miggy is only 30.. Verlander 30.. Max 29... Fielder 29... The only guys that are past their prime years are Benoit, Hunter, and Vmart... all of which can be replaced with free agents.. because all three are on the high end of the salary for their position.. so when they become free agents.. money will be there to sign guys to fill the holes..

I don't see the Tigers really stumbling for 3 or 4 years from now. By that time.. they will have had some drafts and scouting years to restock the farm talent.. and make some trades... At this point.. the Tigers have a strangle hold of the division.. and I don't see that changing unless one of the other teams really hits a hr with a trade or a prospect. White Sox scare me more than any team... because 2 yrs from now.. their farm could be restocked.. and they can spend if they want to.

 

[MiamiVice]

Yeah, unlike the Tigers who have won multiple Championships in recent years...

AL championships... yes.. they have... they have been to 3 of the last 7.. and won 2 of them.

 

[MiamiVice]

The talent level is different in Det nosfer.. lets put it this way.. you have a guy starting for your team in the outfield this year that could not crack Det lineup out of their farm... for like 5 years.. so they dropped him.. because he is subpar.. but he starts for the twins... think about that for a second.