AL Central Smack Talk

[tygerphan4ever]

When it comes to the Indians, that's just it-- nobody expected them to havr the pitching they've been getting. I predicted them yo come in at 79-83 before the season started, but as it stands we're now 2/3 of the way through the season and they are 13 games over .500 and mosy of their ERAs are still in the 3s.. that's what I think has surprised most people about them. And no, I can remember the last non October series where every pitcher on both sides came in unfer 4 ERA. If they dplit, I'm okay with that.. especially since this is the last trip to Cleveland for Dettoit yhis season.

 

[tygerphan4ever]

sorry bout all the typos, but I'm typing in a hurry.. gotta go. Good luck to both teams TTYL

 

[Howie115]

Masty vs JV. I like Masty. He has been pitching like a top 5 SP recently.

Intriguing matchup in that one. The Tigers have pretty much owned Masterson, even when he's pitching well otherwise. And Verlander is only about .500 career vs. the Indians.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I can't wait to watch these games tonight. Going to be a fun series to watch. I think this will be a good test to see if the Indians pitching staff is improving or if they just look good against weak hitting lineups.

I do hope that Cabrera will be able to take the field this series though. He is one guy I hate seeing out of the lineup, even though the team is something like 8-1 without him in the lineup this year. They looked completely different when he is in there.

 

[RollingHills]

It's getting good. Now time for some head-to-head...

I have Chris Archer in dynasty league, thinking about keeping him ahead of Derek Holland, Jeff Samardizja, Clay Buchholz, and A.J. Burnett. He is young, throws really hard, and the Rays have talent. I would not consider keeping Rick Porcello (who is free on waivers). Is my whole league biased?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Archer has how many starts? You are saying he is better than porcello.. who is the same age... yet you are judging that off 12 starts in 2013.... I know its not off the 4 starts from last year where he was no better than porcello was... Anyone saying Archer has more potential than Porcello is so short sighted its not even funny... Porcello was pitching as a 5th starter in the majors when Archer was crapping his pants in the minors.. yet they are two months apart in age.

YOU are the short sighted one.

Anyone fan/team/player/former player etc..

That is not associated with the Rays or Tigers.......would Take Archer and it wouldn't even be close.]

Absolutely ridiculous that you are trying to twist this around like you are the one with the open mind.

 

[Howie115]

Well, on paper, tonight's matchup doesn't look so good for Cleveland: Anibal Sanchez is 3-1 / 1.76 ERA career versus the Indians, while Corey Kluber is 1-3 / 6.82 career vs. Detroit. But I seem to remember Kluber pitched pretty well against the Tigers the last time out.

Kind of agree with Cleaves.... if the Tigers don't win, it will not be because of pitching. It will be that their hitting woes have carried over from the Chisox series. Despite sweeping Chigago, the Tigers only averaged 2.7 runs per game in the series.

 

[Iffster]

Sportshoopla has announced that dougplayer has accepted a 50 game suspension for being a dope.

 

[Howie115]

Anyone fan/team/player/former player etc.. That is not associated with
the Rays or Tigers.......would Take Archer and it wouldn't even be close.

Well, I'd agree that in terms of "potential", Archer would be the pick. But I'd have to see a lot larger sample from Archer to make any judgments. He's only thrown 104 career innings, 74.2 this season. Porcello has thrown 812 career innings and is only 3 months older. Archer has a nice ERA, but again with 2 shutouts in a small sample of starts, it's a skewed view. Who knows what will happen 2nd/3rd times through the league. Archer's K/BB ratio is 51/28, again suggesting the ERA is flukey .... Porcello's is considerably better at 88/25. Bottom line, it's too soon to tell with Archer.

 

[bigkurty]

Series of the season, Tribe needs to split or take 3 of 4 to avoid PTSD and downward spiral.

 

[MiamiVice]

Well, I'd agree that in terms of "potential", Archer would be the pick. But I'd have to see a lot larger sample from Archer to make any judgments. He's only thrown 104 career innings, 74.2 this season. Porcello has thrown 812 career innings and is only 3 months older. Archer has a nice ERA, but again with 2 shutouts in a small sample of starts, it's a skewed view. Who knows what will happen 2nd/3rd times through the league. Archer's K/BB ratio is 51/28, again suggesting the ERA is flukey .... Porcello's is considerably better at 88/25. Bottom line, it's too soon to tell with Archer.

This is all I am saying.. My point.. which is being ignored because people here love to argue... is that porcello is not done developing.. and a guy like chris archer is given more of a long term rosy picture because he has a small sample size and is a rookie.. I am pretty sure Porcello had that going for him 4 years ago... but since they are the same age.. my point is.. if Porcello was stashed in the minors like many prospects are and brought up this year like guys his own age.. people would be pounding their chests and calling him the next verlander. Wonder what Chris Archer, Tony Cingrani, Dan Straily, Jarrod Parker, or Jose Quintana (all also 24) would have looked like if they were in the majors pitching 4 years ago... I guess what people are saying is.. because Porcello has pitched in the majors and not the minors.. his development stops.. and the others because they pitched in the minors.. magically keep developing.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

This is all I am saying.. My point.. which is being ignored because people here love to argue... is that porcello is not done developing.. and a guy like chris archer is given more of a long term rosy picture because he has a small sample size and is a rookie.. I am pretty sure Porcello had that going for him 4 years ago... but since they are the same age.. my point is.. if Porcello was stashed in the minors like many prospects are and brought up this year like guys his own age.. people would be pounding their chests and calling him the next verlander. Wonder what Chris Archer, Tony Cingrani, Dan Straily, Jarrod Parker, or Jose Quintana (all also 24) would have looked like if they were in the majors pitching 4 years ago... I guess what people are saying is.. because Porcello has pitched in the majors and not the minors.. his development stops.. and the others because they pitched in the minors.. magically keep developing.

No, you said he has "just as high" a ceiling if not more than those guys. I said he didn't. There is more potential in Archer. The guy is oozing of potential right now. He may fall off...but the potential is there.

Howie even agreed he probably has more. Then you called me short sighted for stating simple logic. Porcello, while still young. Has not shown he is capable of being anything more than a 4 starter(that's generous)....unless hes on the Twins. But our staff doesn't count.

Parker was a bad one to now toss in there. He's not on his first rodeo this year he did pitch last season.. After getting off to an atrocious start to the year, he has righted the ship and got back to the pitcher he showed he was last year.

Porcello is slowly lowering his ERA each year(since his roookie season) but that isn't super hard when you are consistently mid 4's.

Potential leans to the guys showing flashes of front line pitching.

 

[MiamiVice]

No, you said he has "just as high" a ceiling if not more than those guys. I said he didn't. There is more potential in Archer. The guy is oozing of potential right now. He may fall off...but the potential is there.

Howie even agreed he probably has more. Then you called me short sighted for stating simple logic. Porcello, while still young. Has not shown he is capable of being anything more than a 4 starter(that's generous)....unless hes on the Twins. But our staff doesn't count.

Parker was a bad one to now toss in there. He's not on his first rodeo this year he did pitch last season.. After getting off to an atrocious start to the year, he has righted the ship and got back to the pitcher he showed he was last year.

Porcello is slowly lowering his ERA each year(since his roookie season) but that isn't super hard when you are consistently mid 4's.

Potential leans to the guys showing flashes of front line pitching.

All I want to hear is that being in the majors does not stop development... that is it... Anyone that thinks that the 24 yr olds mentioned are not given more of a rosy outlook just because of small sample size and unknown are clowns... Porcello is the same age.. and was a higher rated prospect years before they were in the majors.. 4th starter is his ceiling? LOL.. seriously.. he is 24.. and has shown this year.. the first time.. that he can go deeper into games.. he is learning to pitch.. if and when he stops having the one bad game a month he has had.. his era would be in the 3's and you would be singing a different tune... flat out.. porcello's ceiling is probably closer to doug fister than it is to a 4th or 5th starter.. but I am not so stupid as to write him off making a jump and being an all star at some point. The only reason people think he has less potential than a guy like archer is the fact he has developed right in your face for 4 yrs rather than developing in the minors with little press coverage.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Miggy batting 3rd tonight.....iggy taking over at SS.....new look tigers tonight......will be great once infante gets back in the lineup and santiago can get his spot back on the bench. Glad tigers get to face a righty....kluber is righty? Seems like the last 2weeks the tigs have faced a shit load of lefties. Avila and victor are better vs the righties.

Big 1st game...winner sets the tone and puts the pressure on the other team.....glad sanchez is going....he proved last year in the playoffs, that he shows up for the big games. He feels no pressure.....the pressure of 4 games out will get to klubber.

Better pitch around miggy....or he goes deeeeep. Time off for this guy is like energizing the energizer bunny...

 

[Cleaves2000]

Porcello will be like a jamie moyer, greg madux type......not numbers wise for maddux, so dont blast me.....i just think, with him coming up so early, not having great stuff, he will become one of those "smart" type of pitchers. Crafty type. Have to fool batters instead of over powering them.....porcello will have a long productive career, but will never be an all star....i think hes better suited for the NL myself. Porcello pitching for SD would be a good fit.

 

[MiamiVice]

Porcello will be like a jamie moyer, greg madux type......not numbers wise for maddux, so dont blast me.....i just think, with him coming up so early, not having great stuff, he will become one of those "smart" type of pitchers. Crafty type. Have to fool batters instead of over powering them.....porcello will have a long productive career, but will never be an all star....i think hes better suited for the NL myself. Porcello pitching for SD would be a good fit.

If you look at what Turner has done in Miami.. you can see what Porcello would do in the NL.. a large park like Miami or SD... my god.. Porcello would be an all star in the NL.. Stick him on a team like the Cards and he would shine. Tigers fans have a bad taste in their mouth because Porcello has had to develop and struggle in games that matter... I get it.. watching a 22 or 23 year old struggle and have short outings sucks... but the fact is.. he is the same age as most rookies or top prospects... and still has a high ceiling... with Iglesias at ss now.. he will have a better d behind him... down the road when miggy is at first and piggy is dh... with a 3rd baseman that has more range and perez at 2nd.. the d behind him could be a positive.. ground ball pitchers like fister or porcello could take a huge leap moving forward.

 

[Iffster]

Posted this on Tiger board, but with all the ostriches there, I doubt it will be seen.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Iglesias does a decent job of hitting the last two months, so Detroit can stay away from reactivating Peralta for the playoffs. My hope is that, if Detroit goes to the World Series, the 'stink' of Peralta will not be a big story. Yes he admitted his mistake...but he let down the team and should not allowed/awarded a post-season appearance - which may help him get a better 2014 contract with (probably) another team.

 

[tygerphan4ever]

Miggy, Piggy, and Iggy all playing tonight -- cool beans

 

[Cleaves2000]

If you look at what Turner has done in Miami.. you can see what Porcello would do in the NL.. a large park like Miami or SD... my god.. Porcello would be an all star in the NL.. Stick him on a team like the Cards and he would shine. Tigers fans have a bad taste in their mouth because Porcello has had to develop and struggle in games that matter... I get it.. watching a 22 or 23 year old struggle and have short outings sucks... but the fact is.. he is the same age as most rookies or top prospects... and still has a high ceiling... with Iglesias at ss now.. he will have a better d behind him... down the road when miggy is at first and piggy is dh... with a 3rd baseman that has more range and perez at 2nd.. the d behind him could be a positive.. ground ball pitchers like fister or porcello could take a huge leap moving forward.

Just think....the tigers had brad fuckin penny as their number 5 last year.....porcello has been solid.....his ERA is that high because he has had a couple of real bad games. Im not so sure perez will be our future starting everyday 2B unless he developes into more of a mlb hitter....but also add ajax to the mix.....they are pretty good up the middle now with ajax and iggy.....add back in infante.......just think last year we had brad penny as our 5th starter and jhonny and raturd as our DP combo. Not to mention boesch in RF. this team has gotten better at alot of key spots since the middle of last year.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Any weather reports from cleveland fans? Clear over there? Dark on the southside of chicago. Arods return could get rained out here. Gloomy here. Hope weathers all good in cleveland.

1hour away. Injun fans still have hope.....will they come friday? A win today, and ill feel confident with no less than a split with scherzer, JV, and fister up.....tonight is HUGE! And leyland has put his best lineup out there. Glad to see that.