AD narrows it down to two teams

[The Q]

Yeah I get that but don't you think even if Kawhi leaves, it was all worth it assuming they win the title?

considering how little they gave up?

absolutely.

They weren't getting to the finals without this move. Even with Lebron heading west.

 

[flyerhawk]

I disagree. If Tatum is truly a star, they have other really nice pieces around him. They could be contenders with just a couple of the right moves and continued development.

Well we will see. Tatum still has a ton of potential but he regressed in his 2nd year. To expect him to become a near superstart level player in the near future is a big ask.

The rest of the team is a collection of really good players. But is that going to be enough to supplant the Bucks or Sixers or Raptors, if they keep Kawhi?

 

[flyerhawk]

Not really on the bold. From what I have read and heard, the Pels really like Ingram. Griffin is said to really like the idea of Zion, Jrue Holiday, Ingram and another young player.

The question mark is Lonzo. I've heard talk (at least on sports talk here) that the Pels like Lonzo too, but not as much as they like Ingram.

If I'm the Lakers, I'm on the phone with Griffin and asking do you want Lonzo or another high draft pick. If they want the pick, then my next call is to the Suns or Bulls to see if I can flip Lonzo for their pick.

Having said all of that...they call it the lying season for a reason. lol

If they liked all of the Lakers players, they would have made the deal a few months ago.

I realize that they have a new GM but they have the same coach and ownership.

 

[flyerhawk]

Griffin wants two 2019 picks. That's why he wants the deal to go through before this upcoming draft. He wants to rebuild immediately. The Knicks don't have anything he wants other than that #3 pick.

Well we really don't know what Griffin wants or more importantly what he will take.

And not all 1st are created equally. The #3 pick is more valuable then the # 10 and #19 pick combined for instance.

 

[trojanfan12]

If they liked all of the Lakers players, they would have made the deal a few months ago.

I realize that they have a new GM but they have the same coach and ownership.

Seriously?

Dell Demps was the GM. Yes, the ownership is the same and when asked directly by Ramona Shelburne if she ever made the "over my dead body" comment and she said no and called it absurd.

Plus, Griffin doesn't have the issues with Lebron and Rich Paul that Demps did.

I also seriously doubt that Griffin takes that job if he didn't have full control. Alvin Gentry is also said to like the Lakers players.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well we will see. Tatum still has a ton of potential but he regressed in his 2nd year. To expect him to become a near superstart level player in the near future is a big ask.

Not really. His shooting percentages dropped a bit, but his overall numbers actually improved a little.

He didn't make the "big jump" that I think we all expected (which is probably attributable to Kyrie more than anything), but he didn't regress.

 

[Montalban]

Knicks and Lakers

Will this affect what others teams offer for him now?

Will Boston risk trading Tatum for a possible one year rental?

Davis has hasn't narrowed down shit. He has no control over where he goes. He's signed through next year.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Well we really don't know what Griffin wants or more importantly what he will take.

And not all 1st are created equally. The #3 pick is more valuable then the # 10 and #19 pick combined for instance.

Boston offer is truly about one thing and that is Tatum.

The Knicks have players Griffin wants more and is one spot down from the Knicks pick.

Griffin said exactly what he wanted in the offers, he wants two 2019 picks. Future picks aren't going to win this deal over. It is pretty clear Griffin wants assets right now and not in the future.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seriously?

Dell Demps was the GM. Yes, the ownership is the same and when asked directly by Ramona Shelburne if she ever made the "over my dead body" comment and she said no and called it absurd.

Plus, Griffin doesn't have the issues with Lebron and Rich Paul that Demps did.

I also seriously doubt that Griffin takes that job if he didn't have full control. Alvin Gentry is also said to like the Lakers players.

And I think that you look for the rumors you like.

Maybe the Pelicans think that Ingram and Ball are amazing players. Maybe not. More than likely, Griffin is leaking that information out there so that people will view the Lakers as a legitimate contender for AD.

I think there is a decent chance that AD winds up in LA. I would probably put it at somewhere around 30% mostly because I don't believe that the Pels want AD in the Western Conference. But I do think it is possible that the Lakers will offer the most compelling offer and the Pels will have no choice but to take it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not really. His shooting percentages dropped a bit, but his overall numbers actually improved a little.

He didn't make the "big jump" that I think we all expected (which is probably attributable to Kyrie more than anything), but he didn't regress.

It's more his decisiveness and aggression that were the problem. I agree that Kyrie probably had a lot to do with that but the Celtics will need to make a decision on whether they think Tatum can be a superstar or not.

 

[trojanfan12]

And I think that you look for the rumors you like.

Yeah, answering a direct question isn't a rumor. Not gonna bother to read the rest.

 

[flyerhawk]

Boston offer is truly about one thing and that is Tatum.

The Knicks have players Griffin wants more and is one spot down from the Knicks pick.

Griffin said exactly what he wanted in the offers, he wants two 2019 picks. Future picks aren't going to win this deal over. It is pretty clear Griffin wants assets right now and not in the future.

Well he's going to take the best deal he can get.

 

[trojanfan12]

It's more his decisiveness and aggression that were the problem. I agree that Kyrie probably had a lot to do with that but the Celtics will need to make a decision on whether they think Tatum can be a superstar or not.

True. He definitely didn't have that same "it" (whatever "it" is) that he had last year. But then, neither did anyone else.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Well he's going to take the best deal he can get.

Really? Never would have thought that lol. The point is he is rebuilding now and that is clear from his comments. Future picks won't help. The Knicks have no AS caliber or potential AS talent to offer. I'm just not sure how the #3 pick gets the job done.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, answering a direct question isn't a rumor. Not gonna bother to read the rest.

Well of course you are going to ignore it. You want to take some comments he made as an analyst and treat them as gospel. That's cool.

I don't have a dog in this hunt. You clearly want to spin things for your Lakers which is natural.

 

[trojanfan12]

Really? Never would have thought that lol. The point is he is rebuilding now and that is clear from his comments. Future picks won't help. The Knicks have no AS caliber or potential AS talent to offer. I'm just not sure how the #3 pick gets the job done.

I think it depends.

Because this draft is believed to have a drop off after the top 3, it becomes a bit dicey. If the Pels believe that Morant, Barrett or Reddish will be stars and/or want to try to pair Zion with one of his Duke teammates, then the #3 would hold a lot of value.

Would it hold enough value for them to take possibly lesser players just to get the #3? Only they know that.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think it depends.

Because this draft is believed to have a drop off after the top 3, it becomes a bit dicey. If the Pels believe that Morant, Barrett or Reddish will be stars and/or want to try to pair Zion with one of his Duke teammates, then the #3 would hold a lot of value.

Would it hold enough value for them to take possibly lesser players just to get the #3? Only they know that.

Without a doubt but it depends what Griffin and Pelicans value. If they don't think much of RJ than the #4 pick is just as valuable as the 3. Future picks are definitely nice assets but he seems to be determined to get two players in the deal and probably 2 top 10 picks or around that. I'm sure if you get a better player/pick in the deal, things could change. IMO right now (if the C's aren't offering up Tatum) I think the Lakers have the best offer in a two or three team trade. I have been saying that for awhile now though. Maybe other teams get in the mix though.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well of course you are going to ignore it. You want to take some comments he made as an analyst and treat them as gospel. That's cool.

Comments who made as an analyst? Griffin?

Griffin has been said to like the Lakers offer and that he would have taken it the first time it was offered.

That's not a rumor.

Gayle Benson was asked a direct question re: the "over my dead body" comments, said she didn't and called it absurd.

You bring up old rumors that have been denied and then claim that I only listen mention rumors I like.

That's cool.

I don't have a dog in this hunt. You clearly want to spin things for your Lakers which is natural.

And you clearly want to spin things against them despite "not having a dog in this hunt". Which is natural since it's the Lakers.

 

[trojanfan12]

Without a doubt but it depends what Griffin and Pelicans value. If they don't think much of RJ than the #4 pick is just as valuable as the 3. Future picks are definitely nice assets but he seems to be determined to get two players in the deal and probably 2 top 10 picks or around that. I'm sure if you get a better player/pick in the deal, things could change. IMO right now (if the C's aren't offering up Tatum) I think the Lakers have the best offer in a two or three team trade. I have been saying that for awhile now though. Maybe other teams get in the mix though.

Yeah, I agree. The Lakers and Knicks look like they have the best potential offers right now. The Lakers players seem to have more upside, but staying healthy is a bit of a question mark for them right now. The Knicks players seem healthier, but don't look to have the same upside. However, their pick is better.

Gonna be interesting. If the rumors that the Pels want this done pre-draft are true, that probably eliminates the Celtics, but I don't know if that means advantage Lakers, advantage Knicks, or doesn't matter.

 

[flyerhawk]

Really? Never would have thought that lol. The point is he is rebuilding now and that is clear from his comments. Future picks won't help. The Knicks have no AS caliber or potential AS talent to offer. I'm just not sure how the #3 pick gets the job done.

It ultimately depends on a few things.

1. What does Griffin think of the young players in LA, NYK and any other team?
2. How much does he care about controllable contract years for players?
3. What will the teams wind up offering?

Saying that Griffin wants 2 1st round picks this year is kinda irrelevant in that the Knicks COULD have 2 1st round picks this year if they wanted. They could trade the Mavs picks to a team and likely get a mid rounder if they wanted to. Not sure that would be the best use of those assets but they could.