A Wow Moment Last Night...

[WVUDAD]

Well winning a national title would be against one of those teams you mentioned more likely...

I think you are looking into one game way to much....Ohio St run game probably didn't demoralize Oregon any more than dropped passes, missed RZ opportunities, poor tackling, 3rd down conversions, and a JR. HT Winning QB being off.

Going into the 4th they are only down 28-20...besides their first drive they are penalized every possession. Your QB goes 5-13 in the 4th quarter. That has nothing to do with your small athletic DL, making Oregon pass happy is not much different then their usual offense since they were 10th in the country in passing offense.

Another thing is you keep saying small athletic DL

Oregon DL
6-7 290
6-8 290
6-4 310
6-6 270

There is nothing small about this DL anymore than most college teams...

Ohio St DL
6-5 278
6-2 288
6-4 295
6-4 272

In my humble opinion Oregon was off on offense and that is what cost them the game.....scoring 25 less points than you have averaged all year is telling and we see it happen every bowl season.

So my answer to your question....you do not need to have a NFL size defensive line to win title i.e. Ohio St 2014 beating Alabama

Damn, I am in complete agreement with DC!!!! At issue is not the size of the kid, good research there DC, but philosophies. I hold that offense, as we saw with Oregon, will have off days. We have seen it for years, teams that rely totally on offense have a hard time winning when their offense is out of sync.

 

[bbwvfan]

Well winning a national title would be against one of those teams you mentioned more likely...

I think you are looking into one game way to much....Ohio St run game probably didn't demoralize Oregon any more than dropped passes, missed RZ opportunities, poor tackling, 3rd down conversions, and a JR. HT Winning QB being off.

Going into the 4th they are only down 28-20...besides their first drive they are penalized every possession. Your QB goes 5-13 in the 4th quarter. That has nothing to do with your small athletic DL, making Oregon pass happy is not much different then their usual offense since they were 10th in the country in passing offense.

Another thing is you keep saying small athletic DL

Oregon DL
6-7 290
6-8 290
6-4 310
6-6 270

There is nothing small about this DL anymore than most college teams...

Ohio St DL
6-5 278
6-2 288
6-4 295
6-4 272

In my humble opinion Oregon was off on offense and that is what cost them the game.....scoring 25 less points than you have averaged all year is telling and we see it happen every bowl season.

So my answer to your question....you do not need to have a NFL size defensive line to win title i.e. Ohio St 2014 beating Alabama

Like DAD said, nice research…. excellent post. You are right… Oregon's front 3 has good size. I listened to too much college football radio… and, didn't actually look into it.

At one point in the 2nd half, I remember the announcers stating Oregon had run something like 13 plays to tOSU's 36.

Great point about the fact tOSU beat Bama too!

 

[Slaton10]

You're partially right, the coach is the reason, but the shirt has nothing to do with it.

I don't know...Ron Crook's resume seems pretty strong.......

At Stanford he was able to get this done as the TE/Tackles coach........
Stanford
- Helped lead Stanford to a two-year record of 23-4, win the 2012 Pac-12 Conference Championship, make an appearance in two straight BCS Bowls, including a 20-14 win over Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1, 2013
- Key in the development of unanimous All-American tight end and two-time Mackey Award Finalist Zach Ertz, who ranked first in 2012 among FBS tight ends with 837 receiving yards and 66 receptions (both marks are Stanford single-season tight end records)
- Ertz and Levine Toilolo were named to the Mackey Award Midseason Watch List, the only pair of teammates in the nation to receive that distinction. Either Ertz or Toilolo led Stanford in receiving in 10-of-13 games in 2012
- In 2011, Stanford's tight end trio of Coby Fleener, Ertz and Toilolo were widely considered the best unit in the nation, as the three players combined to catch 86 passes for 1,356 yards and 20 touchdowns. The trio accounted for more than half of Stanford's touchdown receptions (38) during an 11-2 campaign
- Fleener, who led the Cardinal with 10 touchdown grabs, was named a Sporting News All-American in addition to earning first team all-conference honors, while Toilolo was an honorable mention all-conference selection
- Fleener was drafted in the second round by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012, finishing with 26 catches for 281 yards and two touchdowns
- Crook's work with offensive line coach Mike Bloomgren helped shape the Cardinal’s front five into one of the nation's top units
- The line's pass protection ability aided quarterback Andrew Luck in passing for a school-record 37 touchdowns while it's blocking ability helped a Cardinal ground attack amass the third-highest rushing total in school history

 

[WVUDAD]

I don't know...Ron Crook's resume seems pretty strong.......

At Stanford he was able to get this done as the TE/Tackles coach........
Stanford
- Helped lead Stanford to a two-year record of 23-4, win the 2012 Pac-12 Conference Championship, make an appearance in two straight BCS Bowls, including a 20-14 win over Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1, 2013
- Key in the development of unanimous All-American tight end and two-time Mackey Award Finalist Zach Ertz, who ranked first in 2012 among FBS tight ends with 837 receiving yards and 66 receptions (both marks are Stanford single-season tight end records)
- Ertz and Levine Toilolo were named to the Mackey Award Midseason Watch List, the only pair of teammates in the nation to receive that distinction. Either Ertz or Toilolo led Stanford in receiving in 10-of-13 games in 2012
- In 2011, Stanford's tight end trio of Coby Fleener, Ertz and Toilolo were widely considered the best unit in the nation, as the three players combined to catch 86 passes for 1,356 yards and 20 touchdowns. The trio accounted for more than half of Stanford's touchdown receptions (38) during an 11-2 campaign
- Fleener, who led the Cardinal with 10 touchdown grabs, was named a Sporting News All-American in addition to earning first team all-conference honors, while Toilolo was an honorable mention all-conference selection
- Fleener was drafted in the second round by the Indianapolis Colts in 2012, finishing with 26 catches for 281 yards and two touchdowns
- Crook's work with offensive line coach Mike Bloomgren helped shape the Cardinal’s front five into one of the nation's top units
- The line's pass protection ability aided quarterback Andrew Luck in passing for a school-record 37 touchdowns while it's blocking ability helped a Cardinal ground attack amass the third-highest rushing total in school history

I also think there is a lot of right time right place that goes on with coaching. Johnny Majors couldn't do squat in take 2 at sPitt, but was a pretty good coach. Efore did a good job on STs elsewhere, but it hasn't happened here, Fraud was on a roll here and couldn't get it done at scUM, you can make a list a mile long of guys who did well at one school and couldn't do it somewhere else.

 

[DCWV4life]

At one point in the 2nd half, I remember the announcers stating Oregon had run something like 13 plays to tOSU's 36.

If I remember that was just in the 3rd quarter lol

I think something taken for granted in this game is the 4 players Oregon was missing...probably a top 25 pick at CB and 2 of their top 3 pass catchers did not suit up.

Scary thing about these teams is that they are both young...Mariotta is gone, but they have a lot coming back.

Man I cannot wait for the season to come back around...at least we have signing day in about 3 weeks.

 

[bbwvfan]

tOSU ran 84 plays to Oregon's 71. What is kind of amazing to me about this count… I don't believe tOSU was going uptempo.

When you look at tOSU's 2-deep… it is loaded with underclassmen. Very scary!

You are right about the loss of Oregon's key players… especially their top WR. What Jones did is unfathomable. To my knowledge, it has never happened before, and likely won't happen again.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Skyler Howard in two 1/2 games went

56-110 829 yards 8 TD's 0 Int's 22 rushes 140 yards

What is wrong with him again? How is he not showing promise?

His worst game was against a SEC team where he threw for 346 yards and three TD's.....

I see nothing wrong with Skyler, I just don't see him as the guy who will take us to the next level. My point was that if we are starting a freshman and pull off 7 or more victories, many will be excited to see that guy over the next 3 years. If we start a Junior (Sklyer) or a Senior (Millard) and only win 7 games, I would not expect the same level of excitement, hope for the future and the job security of HCDH

 

[bbwvfan]

See... that is the problem I'm having looking forward. Bama, LSU, tOSU... they're getting the big boys who are athletes up front. They ain't just big... they're fast too.

WVU gets kids who move to the line from LB. Put some weight on him, muscle him up... and, he's still 50 pounds smaller than the guy across the line from him.

Or get the big kid up front with no athleticism. He may get stronger... but, he don't get no faster.

Troubling....

Slaton had an epiphany. This as my thread after watching the first CFP final.

 

[WVUDAD]

Slaton had an epiphany. This as my thread after watching the first CFP final.

Yup, everyone gets excellent skill players, the blue bloods get the great linemen

 

[bbwvfan]

Yup, everyone gets excellent skill players, the blue bloods get the great linemen

In the last 5 years, we’ve seen the country’s best selecting the same 5-6 schools. Kind of tough...

 

[WVUDAD]

In the last 5 years, we’ve seen the country’s best selecting the same 5-6 schools. Kind of tough...

That is something that Fraud did well, he came up with a scheme that he could effectively compete with the 3 star linemen that were smaller, yet quicker. He also had the best strength and conditioning program that we have ever had.

 

[bbwvfan]

That is something that Fraud did well, he came up with a scheme that he could effectively compete with the 3 star linemen that were smaller, yet quicker. He also had the best strength and conditioning program that we have ever had.

Rich's scheme was developed by accident, but was tweaked over time. The Air Raid was another innovation developed around the same time. Both of these schemes attempted to achieve the same thing... spread defenses... make them defend space.

Both offenses widened the gaps along the OL... put speed on the field. As we know, defenses were at a disadvantage at first. But, here we are today, and defenses are now recruiting smaller more athletic kids than ever before. Middle LB's have to be able to cover from boundary to field. OLB's have to be able to cover speedy slot receivers in the flat, have to be able to speed rush. We're seeing more hybrid players (LB/DE) and (S/LB) on the field than ever before.

And, all of this is happening at the blue bloods as a reaction to the advantages Rich's zone option and Hal Mumme's Air Raid used to have.