A Wow Moment Last Night...

[bbwvfan]

Oregon represents all of the new money… you know… cats like hi tech geeks who make boat loads of cash… but, you still ain't blue blood. You ain't never gonna be a Vanderbilt… a Rockefeller…

The Blue Bloods have rarely lost one of its members. Nebraska is unlikely to ever return… but, the others may fall off for a short time… only to rise again like the phoenix.

tOSU was embarrassed in BCS NCG's against UF and LSU. SEC speed…

Programs such as OU, Texas, Bama, tOSU, Michigan, USC have established themselves as the elite. Other programs like AU, LSU, PSU, UGA, FSU and UF have all been at the crest and have perennial recruiting classes in the top 20. These programs get the cream of the crop every year.

With these recruits, they can line them up 2-3 deep on offense and defense without much of a drop off. They have the boys up front to control the LOS and play old fashioned football… power and trap run plays… ground control… clock control for the 'O'…. great tackling, pass rush, coverage skills on defense.

Everyone else has to go gimmick. Spread schemes like Rich's zone read… Mumme's Air Raid… GT, Navy and Army's triple option…uptempo… all devised to offset the imbalance of talent.

It requires the offense to score… and score a lot… to allow its defense to attain an advantage. If your offense can get the opponent to chase… it may make mistakes under pressure… forces the opponent to become one dimensional. The defense can pin its ears back… get after the QB, and drop more players in pass coverage.

If the offense doesn't score points… the defense is not built to shut down. A balanced offense will wear down one of these outsider programs. Assert its will, and pound the outsider into submission.

WVU is an outsider…

It doesn't have a fan base supportive of its program in significant ways. There is no real commitment to the football program.

I don't see a bright future for WVU football… no matter who they have coaching…

 

[Slaton10]

Watching the CFB National Championship game I had a ton of thoughts.

After OU's initial drive, I thought... oh boy... this one ain't gonna be pretty.

Then I watched 2 WR's drop passes on 3rd down attempts for OU... passes that went right through the kids' hands. They're still just kids.

But, at game's end... I hated to see Meyer not take a knee. Nice touch... douche.

And, as the confetti fell... I thought... Wow... I don't know if I'll ever see WVU win one of these NC's in my lifetime. As the game is becoming more popular, revenue is increasing at an alarming rate. WVU has been behind in the arms race, and I don't think the program will ever catch up.

Schools and programs like tOSU will continue to get richer, they have the booster support and the fanbase to invest in their program without hesitation.

WVU will never be able to recruit like tOSU. And, WVU will never be able to attract a scumbag... douche... HC like Urban Meyer.

The achilles heel of the program has and always will be not having enough in state talent to build a recruiting class from.....Wv is ...Arkansas, Nebraska, Virginia Tech,Cal and the like....nice above average programs with National respect...but they aren't Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan or USC

 

[mad2mc]

Bradley is getting paid not to coach whole DL just the DT's...Cogdell coached DE's

what was I thinking?

 

[mad2mc]

Oregon represents all of the new money… you know… cats like hi tech geeks who make boat loads of cash… but, you still ain't blue blood. You ain't never gonna be a Vanderbilt… a Rockefeller…

The Blue Bloods have rarely lost one of its members. Nebraska is unlikely to ever return… but, the others may fall off for a short time… only to rise again like the phoenix.

tOSU was embarrassed in BCS NCG's against UF and LSU. SEC speed…

Programs such as OU, Texas, Bama, tOSU, Michigan, USC have established themselves as the elite. Other programs like AU, LSU, PSU, UGA, FSU and UF have all been at the crest and have perennial recruiting classes in the top 20. These programs get the cream of the crop every year.

With these recruits, they can line them up 2-3 deep on offense and defense without much of a drop off. They have the boys up front to control the LOS and play old fashioned football… power and trap run plays… ground control… clock control for the 'O'…. great tackling, pass rush, coverage skills on defense.

Everyone else has to go gimmick. Spread schemes like Rich's zone read… Mumme's Air Raid… GT, Navy and Army's triple option…uptempo… all devised to offset the imbalance of talent.

It requires the offense to score… and score a lot… to allow its defense to attain an advantage. If your offense can get the opponent to chase… it may make mistakes under pressure… forces the opponent to become one dimensional. The defense can pin its ears back… get after the QB, and drop more players in pass coverage.

If the offense doesn't score points… the defense is not built to shut down. A balanced offense will wear down one of these outsider programs. Assert its will, and pound the outsider into submission.

WVU is an outsider…

It doesn't have a fan base supportive of its program in significant ways. There is no real commitment to the football program.

I don't see a bright future for WVU football… no matter who they have coaching…

Saban even realized that the uptempo pace affected the chess match approach to the game. He needed to have a variation to his offense and took a chance on Kiffin. The move by Saban was to force himself to have an uptempo offense when he needed to change the pace instead of complaining about something he saw as a significant change to football. I'm not sure why he was complaining in the first place. He has recruits throwing theirself at the program and he can pick and choose talent at every position every year.

 

[bbwvfan]

The achilles heel of the program has and always will be not having enough in state talent to build a recruiting class from.....Wv is ...Arkansas, Nebraska, Virginia Tech,Cal and the like....nice above average programs with National respect...but they aren't Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan or USC

Can WVU get the kids who line the trenches to compete? Especially on defense... I did not follow tOSU at all through the season... but, it looked like Meyer knew he could exploit the undersized Oregon DL.

He went power and used traps... counter traps. Over and over and over...

 

[bbwvfan]

Saban even realized that the uptempo pace affected the chess match approach to the game. He needed to have a variation to his offense and took a chance on Kiffin. The move by Saban was to force himself to have an uptempo offense when he needed to change the pace instead of complaining about something he saw as a significant change to football. I'm not sure why he was complaining in the first place. He has recruits throwing theirself at the program and he can pick and choose talent at every position every year.

The worst head coach in all the world knows more about football than I do.

But, IMO Saban has either missed the boat or using a distraction to divert the attention away from his own weakness. He is a DB coach as well as the HC. And, it is his secondary that has been the true weakness of the team the past few seasons. They cannot man cover. I believe he had great success in the past using mostly zone coverages. But, attacks like presented by the Air Raid systems can easily attack a zone.

Improved secondary play is what Bama needs... not a rule change regarding uptempo. The Ohio State had no issue with uptempo...

 

[Anotherwvufan]

One thing that I note is that great teams are the result of great players. Where is FSU without Winston? Oregon without Mariotta, Bama without Cooper. OSU has a 3rd stringer come in and play like a Heisman favorite. Look further down the line TCU-Boykin, Baylor-Petty. Where would WVU end up with just a healthy Trickett through the year.

We are all just waiting for that breakout player or two. We have lines that can compete. Our D can get a few stops against anyone. Just give me that QB that knows the system, makes the throws to people who can make the catch.

At the start of the season, I felt like BB that we will never have a chance at the NC again. The game against Bama changed my mine. 3 star seniors can sometimes hold against 5 star freshman. It takes time to develop talent, and we will never have the depth of the big boys, but with the right group of players, I still have hope.

Things have changed greatly since the days of the BIg East. We would have 2 or 3 tough games per year. Now we have 6 or 7. Add in a playoff and that is another hurdle to cross. I almost with we were in the ACC. That conference now has the easiest path to the playoff.

 

[bbwvfan]

The WVU vs Bama game played out like the Oregon game. At least that was my thinking.

Once Bama established their running game in the 2nd half... they controlled the LOS... they controlled the clock. The defense could not get off the field... and wore down as the 2nd half moved on.

WVU's offense made a few mistakes... mostly dropped passes... but, could not score as many points as needed in the 2nd half to make Bama have to chase. Bama could sustain drives with its punishing running game, and WVU's defense could do little to stop it.

Oregon faced the same situation in the 2nd half of the game. They got within 1 point, but its offense could not sustain the scoring.

Can it be done?

 

[Slaton10]

Can WVU get the kids who line the trenches to compete? Especially on defense... I did not follow tOSU at all through the season... but, it looked like Meyer knew he could exploit the undersized Oregon DL.

He went power and used traps... counter traps. Over and over and over...

I would say the answer is no...the program never has..you would have to go back to the days of Jeff Merrow to find a next level talent...it has been few and far in between...

It seems projects like the Scooter Berry's and Chris Nield's of the world is all they can recruit..and that is just the defensive side of the ball...the same could be said on offense up to this point..

 

[bbwvfan]

I would say the answer is no...the program never has..you would have to go back to the days of Jeff Merrow to find a next level talent...it has been few and far in between...

It seems projects like the Scooter Berry's and Chris Nield's of the world is all they can recruit..and that is just the defensive side of the ball...the same could be said on offense up to this point..

Yeah... I agree...

 

[WVUDAD]

YET, we hear about the high ranked recruiting classes coming in. Great coaching trumps high rated kids. Urban Meyer could come here and be undefeated in year 2, I'll take a great coach over a great player ANY day. Look at what Rick Trickett did with those undersized linemen, Calvin MaGee and Fraud demanded a strong, hard working team. Everyone drops a game they should win now and then, but to routinely fall just short, to just not show up ready to play, to not adjust the game plan is all on the coach. WVU will indeed not likely get those five star linemen very often, but that is the position on the team where great technique and strength can be gained. You can coach everything into a kid except speed, you have to recruit speed, but a great coach can teach the rest.

 

[DCWV4life]

So you guys think that we will never ever be able to win games against team like Bama cause our offensive and defensive lines can't take it?

I disagree. We will never be able to beat those guys cause our coach wears a black shirt.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

AS I look through first round lineman in this years draft, I see many guys who are from teams like nebraska, Iowa, Miami, Stanford, Washington.

there are guys out there who we can get. it really comes down to good recruiting and luck. Many times the difference between a 5 star and a 3 star is one or two years of growth. We need to identify and coach up these guys. Kevin White was a 3 star coming in two years ago, now he is a first round draft pick. We can do this with Lineman also.

 

[WVUDAD]

So you guys think that we will never ever be able to win games against team like Bama cause our offensive and defensive lines can't take it?

I disagree. We will never be able to beat those guys cause our coach wears a black shirt.

You're partially right, the coach is the reason, but the shirt has nothing to do with it.

 

[WVUDAD]

We can get those kids, we just all need to Twitter our love for Holgorsen and five star kids will be knocking the door down.

 

[Mike]

I think this will be the telling year, I have hope in Holgerson, I think we are headed in the right direction. This year will tell the tell. In my opinion anything less then 9 wins is a bust. If we don't get 9 wins, we really need to think about changing directions as far as the HC is concerned. I think we will win 9-10 games next year, with the outside shot at more.

 

[bbwvfan]

So you guys think that we will never ever be able to win games against team like Bama cause our offensive and defensive lines can't take it?

I disagree. We will never be able to beat those guys cause our coach wears a black shirt.

I am talking about winning a NC... not just beating a Bama... LSU... tOSU...

I am talking about beating one of those teams when they're loaded up front on both offense and defense... they have a running attack that demoralizes you... and a defensive line that slows down your running game forcing you to become one dimensional.

Is that kind of team beatable when we go out there with our small... athletic... lines? Like Oregon... are teams who play uptempo... with small athletic DL's capable of winning NC's?

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I also think that this will be a telling year. I'm not as worried about setting a floor for wins as showing promise. We will start the year with a new QB, or one with little experience. What I am looking for is a showing of good potential and strength in finishing the season. If we lose early but finish up strong and Crest/Stills/Churgnov show that they are the real deal, I'll want more. Finish 7-5 on a five game winning streak and bowl win and I will be happy. Finish 7-5 like we did this year with Millard or Skyler at the helm, I'm off the wagon.

 

[DCWV4life]

I am talking about winning a NC... not just beating a Bama... LSU... tOSU...

I am talking about beating one of those teams when they're loaded up front on both offense and defense... they have a running attack that demoralizes you... and a defensive line that slows down your running game forcing you to become one dimensional.

Is that kind of team beatable when we go out there with our small... athletic... lines? Like Oregon... are teams who play uptempo... with small athletic DL's capable of winning NC's?

Well winning a national title would be against one of those teams you mentioned more likely...

I think you are looking into one game way to much....Ohio St run game probably didn't demoralize Oregon any more than dropped passes, missed RZ opportunities, poor tackling, 3rd down conversions, and a JR. HT Winning QB being off.

Going into the 4th they are only down 28-20...besides their first drive they are penalized every possession. Your QB goes 5-13 in the 4th quarter. That has nothing to do with your small athletic DL, making Oregon pass happy is not much different then their usual offense since they were 10th in the country in passing offense.

Another thing is you keep saying small athletic DL

Oregon DL
6-7 290
6-8 290
6-4 310
6-6 270

There is nothing small about this DL anymore than most college teams...

Ohio St DL
6-5 278
6-2 288
6-4 295
6-4 272

In my humble opinion Oregon was off on offense and that is what cost them the game.....scoring 25 less points than you have averaged all year is telling and we see it happen every bowl season.

So my answer to your question....you do not need to have a NFL size defensive line to win title i.e. Ohio St 2014 beating Alabama

 

[DCWV4life]

I also think that this will be a telling year. I'm not as worried about setting a floor for wins as showing promise. We will start the year with a new QB, or one with little experience. What I am looking for is a showing of good potential and strength in finishing the season. If we lose early but finish up strong and Crest/Stills/Churgnov show that they are the real deal, I'll want more. Finish 7-5 on a five game winning streak and bowl win and I will be happy. Finish 7-5 like we did this year with Millard or Skyler at the helm, I'm off the wagon.

Skyler Howard in two 1/2 games went

56-110 829 yards 8 TD's 0 Int's 22 rushes 140 yards

What is wrong with him again? How is he not showing promise?

His worst game was against a SEC team where he threw for 346 yards and three TD's.....