A Josh McDaniels Question

[nefansince75]

Well I started by talking about Josh McDaniels and it all went downhill from there as some didn't like what I had to say. Wasn't my intention to get anything started. Usually make it clear when I do things like that.

The second part. Actually misread what you said. So my bad on that.

Who didn't like what you had to say? I liked it fine. I may disagree and provide reasons why, but that's not "didn't like....".

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Are you making the proclamation the Colts had a needle on the sideline and used that needle?

He's repeating the proclamation stated by others. I faintly remember this.

New Deflategate theory: Colts deflated ball after Jackson's pick

Deflategate may now have more conspiracy theories than the Kennedy assassination.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[YankeeRebel]

He's repeating the proclamation stated by others. I faintly remember this.

New Deflategate theory: Colts deflated ball after Jackson's pick

Deflategate may now have more conspiracy theories than the Kennedy assassination.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

So it's a theory that they had a needle, one ball and managed to deflate multiple balls. Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Southieinnc]

Are you making the proclamation the Colts had a needle on the sideline and used that needle?

Colts admitted to having the needle and also admitted using the needle to check the balls.
Mike Kensil NFL official asked Colts if they had a needle so they could check the air pressure, Colts said yes, when they asked Colts equipment manager and he gave it to NFL.

 

[Southieinnc]

So it's a theory that they had a needle, one ball and managed to deflate multiple balls. Yeah that makes sense.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?106316-Euroleague&s=bb29e7fd28d25a7ef3e0470398a7f345

Page 198-199 of the Wells Report (page 39 Table 10 of the Exponent report).....

the expected drop in pressure from 70 degrees (locker room temperature) to 48 degrees (the game air temperature) is 1.13 for a ball filled at 12.5 PSI.

The scientific testing revealed that -

the footballs could have lost ~ 1.3 PSI due to temperature, ~ 0.3 due to being wet, and 0.5 because the two air gauges being used were not calibrated properly.

On page 7, table 4, it is explained that the average level air pressure drops for the Patriots' and the Colts' footballs, as measured by the officials at halftime were -

The Patriots' footballs air pressure readings for 11 footballs averaged between 1.39 and 1.01 PSI, depending on the gauges.

The Colts' footballs lost an average of .67 and .25 PSI, even though they were exposed to the same exact weather conditions.


And here is the explanation of what that actually means, coming from the company that provided the tests for the NFL so that the Wells Report could be written --->


https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/0...tegate-report/


After testing the Patriots’ balls, NFL officials turned to the Colts’ footballs, but only had time to test four before the 13.5-minute halftime break ended and the balls had to be returned to the sidelines for the second half.

Of the Colts’ four tested balls, all had lost air pressure when compared to the 13.0 psi that Colts’ quarterback Andrew Luck preferred but not as much as the Patriots’ balls had. However, Exponent scientists noted that much – and possibly all – of that discrepancy could be explained by the fact the Colts’ balls were tested toward the end of halftime.

Also, one of the four measurements was apparently taken down incorrectly, leaving only three reliable halftime tests on the Colts’ balls.

Further uncertainty was injected by the fact that the two gauges used by NFL officials at halftime recorded different measurements, off by a third to nearly one-half psi, and it wasn’t clear which gauge was used to test the balls before the game. According to Exponent, the lower of the two gauges – referred to in the report as the “non-logo gauge” – was the accurate gauge and was most likely used by referee Walt Anderson in his pre-game measurements.

Colts’ Underinflated Balls

Ironically, however, if the data from the accurate gauge is used, all three Colts’ balls were themselves underinflated, averaging 12.27 psi, thus below the 12.5 psi minimum, but nevertheless those balls were allowed back in the game for the second half.

At the end of the game, four balls from the Colts and four from the Patriots were tested again. Three of the four Colts’ balls were underinflated while none of the Pats’ balls were. In other words, while the Patriots’ footballs were deflated in the first half, the Colts’ balls were deflated in both the first half and second half.

Another possible factor why the Pats’ balls tested relatively lower in psi could have been the way the balls were prepared before the game. The Pats’ balls were rubbed down to remove any slickness while the Colts’ balls were left slicker or more water resistant. One of the findings by the Exponent scientists was that wetter balls recovered their psi more slowly than drier balls when brought into a climate-controlled environment.

It also turns out that an initial claim by an NFL official in a letter to the Patriots – that one of the Pats’ balls had been measured at 10.1 psi, 2.4 psi below the minimum, and that the Colts’ balls all met specifications – was false. The letter stated: “In fact, one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi, far below the requirement of 12

 

[BigKen]

This is just like a Politic Forum thread.

Start talking about Josh McDaniels and somehow it becomes a Trump thread.

What a minute, I mean a Spy gate thread.

No, wait a minute, a Deflate gate thread.

What were you saying?

Oh yeah, a Cleveland Browns Super Bowl Championship thread.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

This is just like a Politic Forum thread.

Start talking about Josh McDaniels and somehow it becomes a Trump thread.

What a minute, I mean a Spy gate thread.

No, wait a minute, a Deflate gate thread.

What were you saying?

Oh yeah, a Cleveland Browns Super Bowl Championship thread.

Oddly, I've never seen a Browns SB thread.

Sounds like a conspiracy.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Colts admitted to having the needle and also admitted using the needle to check the balls.
Mike Kensil NFL official asked Colts if they had a needle so they could check the air pressure, Colts said yes, when they asked Colts equipment manager and he gave it to NFL.

I do not remember any of that but okay and how many of the Patriots balls did they have?

 

[nefansince75]

I do not remember any of that but okay and how many of the Patriots balls did they have?

At this point we could ask how many of the facts do you remember but the reality is: as much misinformation was out there as accurate.

I read an account that the balls were measured the next day and they were back to 12.5. Is that true? Seems just as likely to be accurate as any other "fact".

What really happened during Deflategate? Five years later, the NFL's 'scandal' aged poorly

Five years ago, the Deflategate allegations against the Patriots spun out of control. Did the NFL actually learn anything from it?

www.espn.com

 

[YankeeRebel]

At this point we could ask how many of the facts do you remember but the reality is: as much misinformation was out there as accurate.

I read an account that the balls were measured the next day and they were back to 12.5. Is that true? Seems just as likely to be accurate as any other "fact".

What really happened during Deflategate? Five years later, the NFL's 'scandal' aged poorly

Five years ago, the Deflategate allegations against the Patriots spun out of control. Did the NFL actually learn anything from it?

www.espn.com

Well personally I believe the Pats cheated, I believe we have a history of cheating, and unfortunately a history of getting caught, we kind of suck at it. All teams cheat, all teams break rules, all teams do what ever they can to get an edge both within the guidelines and rules and outside those boundaries. Anyone that thinks that is not true is more than likely taking an obtuse approach to the way this game is played.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Are you making the proclamation the Colts had a needle on the sideline and used that needle?

Yes. It's a pretty well known fact.
That coupled with the fact that the only ball that whose pressure as tested afterward by the NFL could not be explained as a normal pressure drop due to temperature variable under the Ideal Gas Law was the one the Colts intercepted and tested on their sideline before giving to the NFL.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I do not remember any of that but okay and how many of the Patriots balls did they have?

You're either trolling or suffering from dementia.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Well personally I believe the Pats cheated, I believe we have a history of cheating, and unfortunately a history of getting caught, we kind of suck at it. All teams cheat, all teams break rules, all teams do what ever they can to get an edge both within the guidelines and rules and outside those boundaries. Anyone that thinks that is not true is more than likely taking an obtuse approach to the way this game is played.

I believe the Patriots cheated, but not that time.
All teams cheat.
Right up until Spygate cost them a 1st round pick. Then Bill said fuck that, get as close to the rules as you can but don't break them.
They set the pressure at a legal limit, the minimum, and knew the pressure would drop in the cold which would allow a better grip in the cold. Maybe harder to throw, but easier to catch.
That's not cheating if they do it within the rules.

But Roger stated the Pats would be punished "For past transgressions".

 

[YankeeRebel]

You're either trolling or suffering from dementia.

Neither I simply did not recall the needle incident. Don't assume!

 

[YankeeRebel]

I believe the Patriots cheated, but not that time.
All teams cheat.
Right up until Spygate cost them a 1st round pick. Then Bill said fuck that, get as close to the rules as you can but don't break them.
They set the pressure at a legal limit, the minimum, and knew the pressure would drop in the cold which would allow a better grip in the cold. Maybe harder to throw, but easier to catch.
That's not cheating if they do it within the rules.

But Roger stated the Pats would be punished "For past transgressions".

We do not know the balls were set to the legal limit b/c the damn refs did not record the PSI if memory calls. And dumb shit that went into the bathroom leaves a lot of speculation. At this point I don't really give a shit, we got the rep, we deserve that rep.

 

[nefansince75]

Yes. It's more likely than not (replaces: It's a pretty well known fact).
That coupled with the fact that the only ball that whose pressure as tested afterward by the NFL could not be explained as a normal pressure drop due to temperature variable under the Ideal Gas Law was the one the Colts intercepted and tested on their sideline before giving to the NFL.

FIFY haha

 

[nefansince75]

Well personally I believe the Pats cheated, I believe we have a history of cheating, and unfortunately a history of getting caught, we kind of suck at it. All teams cheat, all teams break rules, all teams do what ever they can to get an edge both within the guidelines and rules and outside those boundaries. Anyone that thinks that is not true is more than likely taking an obtuse approach to the way this game is played.

I agree the Pats have a history of cheating and all teams cheat. However there's so much contradicting information I can't see any conclusion either way.

I have a history of speeding. Does that mean at any moment I'm stopped I'm speeding? What about if the Radar guns says I'm speeding? What if the guy holding the radar gun has a kid on a team I coached and the kid didn't get play time? What if the radar gun hadn't been calibrated in five years?

In your scenario I'm guilty. But a fair judge would take all in account and probably drop it immediately unless my speeding was reckless. In the Pats case, the only apparently fair judge who ruled on the merits threw out the case. The next judge only ruled the previous judge didn't have authority to rule on anything.

 

[nefansince75]

We do not know the balls were set to the legal limit b/c the damn refs did not record the PSI if memory calls. And dumb shit that went into the bathroom leaves a lot of speculation. At this point I don't really give a shit, we got the rep, we deserve that rep.

The Pats have a rep as cheaters and deserve it, but every team cheats yet don't get the same rep?

It's kind of universally accepted that sign stealing is okay, but the Pats break procedure doing it and they are cheaters? But the Saints try to hurt somebody and they are reformed?

 

[YankeeRebel]

The Pats have a rep as cheaters and deserve it, but every team cheats yet don't get the same rep?

It's kind of universally accepted that sign stealing is okay, but the Pats break procedure doing it and they are cheaters? But the Saints try to hurt somebody and they are reformed?

They don't the same rep because they don't get caught. Like I said we suck at it.

 

[BigKen]

The Colts having a needle on the sideline is a fact. Never in the history of the NFL has a team had a needle A-N-D a pressure gauge on the sideline during any game, let alone a CHAMPIONSHIP .

That being said, no one has ever been able to prove that the ball taken from the field was actually under pressure when it was removed. In a court of law, the trainer would be under extreme examination because he had the needle, gauge and the ball. The accusation came at halftime, with more than enough time for anyone (trainer) to release air from that game ball.

The Colts released the story to ESPN who then falsely accused the Patriots of having 13 ball under the legal pressure that was later totally proved wrong by the NFL after testing each ball at the stadium and in a laboratory.

If Kraft had bigger balls between his legs, he should have sued the Colts, the League and ESPN. Not for millions, or billions, but trillions. Robert would now own the Patriots, Johnathan would own the Colts and the Kraft Entertainment would own half of the NFL and ESPN.

Roger Goodell would be living in the Yukon trying to avoid all of the natural predators.