Series Thread: 5) Indiana Pacers vs. 4) Philadelphia 76ers

[Wamu]

* fence about Mikal

I wanna see a FT competition between Lonzo & blind folded Steph. My money's on Steph.

 

[Black Adam]

I find it kind of hilarious that everyone seems to think they know how these players careers are going to turn out.

"Simmons can lead a championship team for years and years", Ingram's going to be a really good player", "Simmons is going to be a Hall of Famer", etc., etc.

Both of these guys look like they are going to be very good and both look like they will be in the league for a long time.

Both also have holes in their game that they need to work on.

What if Simmons never learns to shoot? What if his free throw percentage stays around 56%?

What if Ingram doesn't gain weight? What if he doesn't become more aggressive like the Lakers want him to?

What if one does a better job addressing the holes in his game than the other?

How about we give these guys a couple more years before we decide how their careers will turn out?

kinda my point from the git-go...

maybe 3 or 4 years in you can give a clearer comparison...

 

[WiggyRuss]

I wasn't thrilled when the Celtics drafted Tatum because of where he played his CBB. But if he can help the Celtics win another championship (or multiple) I would be willing to overlook his 1 year in Durham. At least he's not a Flat Earther like his idiot teammate though.

i gotta say hed go #1 fairly easily if that draft was redone today. Donvan Mitchell #2....

then it kind of gets squashed up in there. Josh Jackson is def a guy who's stock has fallen. Markenen is def. a guy who's stock has risen and looks like a helluva player. Lonzo would still go very high. DSJ would still go very high--- Fox has and will be my sleeper guy in that draft. I loved him in the tourney- he has a ton of talent and just needs to physically and emotionally mature. He has a lot mof maturing to do--hes LISTED at 175 lbs....but i love his game and his athleticism.....hes a guy i would definitely not give up on until hes had a few years in the league.

 

[Sparhawk]

Are we really that sold on Ayton?

If I may :

Ayton 1172 mpg, 32.6 PER, 0.65 TS%, 0.625 eFG%, 0.424 FTr, 666 PProd, 21.4 TRB%, 10.2 AST%, 1.0 STL%, 6.1 BLK%, 11.3 TOV%, 26.6 USG%, 5.5 OWS, 2.1 DWS, 7.6 WS, 0.258 WS/40, 6.9 OBPM, 4.0 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

XXXXX 1143 mpg, 30.7 PER, 0.641 TS%, 0.664 eFG%, .462 FTr, 609 PProd, 16.6 TRB%, 9.4 AST%, 1.5 STL%, 4.5 BLK%, 15.6 TOV%, 27.6 USG%, 4.5 OWS, 2.2 DWS, 6.7 WS, .235 WS/40, 6.8 OBPM, 4.1 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

Now, I realize single player comparisons are unfair, but after what happened in the tournament, I immediately thought of one player that Ayton reminded me of. That player is listed below with their respective Advanced stats for their Freshman seasons. Now, I'm sure there are similar players that had the same numbers and productive careers. I'm just wondering if we are seeing a similar pattern.

See if you can guess the player.
Then discuss.

 

[Wamu]

i gotta say hed go #1 fairly easily if that draft was redone today. Donvan Mitchell #2....

then it kind of gets squashed up in there. Josh Jackson is def a guy who's stock has fallen. Markenen is def. a guy who's stock has risen and looks like a helluva player. Lonzo would still go very high. DSJ would still go very high--- Fox has and will be my sleeper guy in that draft. I loved him in the tourney- he has a ton of talent and just needs to physically and emotionally mature. He has a lot mof maturing to do--hes LISTED at 175 lbs....but i love his game and his athleticism.....hes a guy i would definitely not give up on until hes had a few years in the league.

As long as Tatum keeps getting better I won't have anything negative to say about him, maybe. His dookie sidekick though. He might be injury prone for the rest of his career. Think the Cavs would be interested in trading for Kyrie? Ainge wouldn't want much in return.

 

[WiggyRuss]

* fence about Mikal

i agree with that....neither of us have mentioned Wndell Carter Jr.--- who some people have as high as #6--- but i am just not as high on.....

Miles Bridges --- i like his attitude--- i think he has a little DRaymond in him.....if the Cavs dont get lucky and move up- id have no problem with them taking him.....honestly this draft is freaking stacked

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. JJJ
4. Bamba
5. Bagley
6. Porter
7. Carter Jr.
8. Mik. Bridges
9. Miles Bridges
10. Sexton
11. Young

thats crazy.

last year had a ton of tier 2 guys--- way more than usual with Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Fox, Markenen, DSJ, Tatum, Isaac, Monk, Nkilitana, and then, in retrospect, Mitchell......

Id say the "true" tier 1 guys in this draft are the top 6 i have listed--- but 7-11 all are great talents as well.

 

[CitySushi]

Don't know what else has been posted in here, but 76ers gonna roll over the Pacers.

Pacers had a great year, but 76ers are the real deal right now. Just need to get Embiid right and they could be a serious threat in the East.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As long as Tatum keeps getting better I won't have anything negative to say about him, maybe. His dookie sidekick though. He might be injury prone for the rest of his career. Think the Cavs would be interested in trading for Kyrie? Ainge wouldn't want much in return.

i dunno.

Kyrie just had his 3rd knee surgery on the same knee. As I said before--- that playoffs where he injured it, he was missing time, and then decided to play on it hurt vs. the Warriors, and then dislocated his knee cap. If you remember i lost a bet because i thought he would come back a lot sooner than he ended up coming back.

Kyrie relies on his quickness and his cutting as much, if not more, than just about anyone in the entire league. He is still going to be an all star and an amazing player- but this is the 2nd time in 4 years where he will not be available to play in the playoffs- and that has to be concerning.

Its hard to say how it will work out- id love to see some LEBron and Cavs vs. Kyrie and the Celtics playoff matchups in the future though.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Don't know what else has been posted in here, but 76ers gonna roll over the Pacers.

Pacers had a great year, but 76ers are the real deal right now. Just need to get Embiid right and they could be a serious threat in the East.

philly is in the 3 seed after holding on the other night vs. the cavs and looks like they might have miami right now....its still to be decided.....

i wish this cavs team had another month to gel....just having about 2-3 weeks with Kevin Love and the entire team together (minus hill now of course) is not a lot of time....but if anyone can do it.....

 

[CitySushi]

i dunno.

Kyrie just had his 3rd knee surgery on the same knee. As I said before--- that playoffs where he injured it, he was missing time, and then decided to play on it hurt vs. the Warriors, and then dislocated his knee cap. If you remember i lost a bet because i thought he would come back a lot sooner than he ended up coming back.

Kyrie relies on his quickness and his cutting as much, if not more, than just about anyone in the entire league. He is still going to be an all star and an amazing player- but this is the 2nd time in 4 years where he will not be available to play in the playoffs- and that has to be concerning.

Its hard to say how it will work out- id love to see some LEBron and Cavs vs. Kyrie and the Celtics playoff matchups in the future though.

Explosiveness and cutting are two huge things that come into play with knee injuries. The one thing though that Kyrie has going for him is his Elite shooting. Without the cutting, he could still be a multiple time allstar just by being a bit more of a perimeter oriented guard.

 

[flyerhawk]

Don't know what else has been posted in here, but 76ers gonna roll over the Pacers.

Pacers had a great year, but 76ers are the real deal right now. Just need to get Embiid right and they could be a serious threat in the East.

Sixers win their last two and the will be playing the Heat or Bucks.

Funny enough, the last game of the season is Sixers vs Bucks. If the Wizards lose their next game and the Bucks win it, that game changes dramatically for them as they go from playing the Celtics to most likely the Cavs. Somehow, I imagine the Bucks not being so keen to win that one.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Are we really that sold on Ayton?

If I may :

Ayton 1172 mpg, 32.6 PER, 0.65 TS%, 0.625 eFG%, 0.424 FTr, 666 PProd, 21.4 TRB%, 10.2 AST%, 1.0 STL%, 6.1 BLK%, 11.3 TOV%, 26.6 USG%, 5.5 OWS, 2.1 DWS, 7.6 WS, 0.258 WS/40, 6.9 OBPM, 4.0 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

XXXXX 1143 mpg, 30.7 PER, 0.641 TS%, 0.664 eFG%, .462 FTr, 609 PProd, 16.6 TRB%, 9.4 AST%, 1.5 STL%, 4.5 BLK%, 15.6 TOV%, 27.6 USG%, 4.5 OWS, 2.2 DWS, 6.7 WS, .235 WS/40, 6.8 OBPM, 4.1 DBPM, 10.9 BPM

Now, I realize single player comparisons are unfair, but after what happened in the tournament, I immediately thought of one player that Ayton reminded me of. That player is listed below with their respective Advanced stats for their Freshman seasons. Now, I'm sure there are similar players that had the same numbers and productive careers. I'm just wondering if we are seeing a similar pattern.

See if you can guess the player.
Then discuss.

did you watch that tourney game? They just denied the entry passes--- they had no guards that could get Ayton the ball--- they double teamed him and denied entry passes and then no one on the outside can shoot.

Ayton is a beast. he is an athletic freak and does have a big time motor....if he didnt have a motor id be more concerned....i think his game actually plays better in the nba where therei s more shooting and more space and much more capable PGs that can get him the ball in his hands.

 

[Sparhawk]

did you watch that tourney game? They just denied the entry passes--- they had no guards that could get Ayton the ball--- they double teamed him and denied entry passes and then no one on the outside can shoot.

Ayton is a beast. he is an athletic freak and does have a big time motor....if he didnt have a motor id be more concerned....i think his game actually plays better in the nba where therei s more shooting and more space and much more capable PGs that can get him the ball in his hands.

I was actually referring more to his defense.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Sixers win their last two and the will be playing the Heat or Bucks.

Funny enough, the last game of the season is Sixers vs Bucks. If the Wizards lose their next game and the Bucks win it, that game changes dramatically for them as they go from playing the Celtics to most likely the Cavs. Somehow, I imagine the Bucks not being so keen to win that one.

even if this series doesn't happen, they're certainly getting mileage out of this thread. pretty sure I'm glad I haven't followed it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I was actually referring more to his defense.

you are right he has a lot of work to do on defense.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I was actually referring more to his defense.

This gives away who you were referencing.

 

[trojanfan12]

Agree.

Listen, Everyone had Derrick Rose penciled in as a future HOFer his MVP Season and that thought died a fiery death.

I hope all these guys have long careers. But, nothing is promised.

Exactly. I hope all of these young guys live up to their potential. If they do...we're going to be in for some great basketball for years to come.

 

[trojanfan12]

personally i am just going by what i have seen thus far.

right now Simmons made an all star team, his team is the 3 seed and he is averaging 16, 8 and 8.

Oh, I agree. Simmons looks real good. But you also have to qualify it to a certain extent based on the conference he's in. I seriously doubt that the Sixers are a 3 seed in the West. He also may not be an all star if he were in the West.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Oh, I agree. Simmons looks real good. But you also have to qualify it to a certain based on the conference he's in. I seriously doubt that the Sixers are a 3 seed in the West. He also may not be an all star if he were in the West.

He wasn’t an All-Star in the East either.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am sure we WILL talk about their careers in 2 or 3 years and see how they are progressing. But, right now, there is a clear gap between the two players.

We don't know what the future brings. Ingram could turn into Kobe 2.0 and Simmons may be Rondo 2.0. Any speculation we make in that regard is pure guesswork.

All we can go by is what we have seen. Donovan Mitchell might fizzle out and be nothing more than league average. Malik Monk could turn into a sniper. Lots of people were ragging on Devin Booker after his rookie season. Oladipo was considered a complete bust. So time will tell.

When I watch them, I don't see as big a gap as some want to claim.

Ingram is a better shooter and at least as good, if not better defensively (although he's still too damn skinny to be as good as he can be). Simmons is a better passer and has better handles (but Ingram has filled in quite capably at the point a few times when Lonzo has been out).

Rebounding edge goes to Simmons. But again, Ingram's weight hurts him here too.

As I've said all along, I think they both have holes that need to be addressed and I think if they do, both are going to make their fans and teams very happy.