49ers a finalist for Manning

[Crimsoncrew]

i never said smith bears no responsibility, but at some point there needs to be talent around a qb. and after injuries we had none at wr. when pass rushers come clean at a qb and gore whiffs on a block, that could end manning's career. same thing happened with young and he wasn't exactly an easy qb to sack either.

bringing in manning to throw to bad players like crabtree isn't gonna do fuck all for us. watch how much lloyd gets, i doubt it'll be much more if it is more than crabtree's cap number.

You haven't said that explicitly, but you have strongly implied it. You have repeatedly said we need talent around the QB. Newsflash: it's not 2005. We have talent on the offense. At most positions, our talent surpasses the talent we had at QB this past year. We have a couple holes. So does every other team.

As for talent at WR, I'd say Crabtree and Smith are very similar in terms of what they bring to their respective positions. Both have physical limitations, and both are limited by their counterpart. Neither elevates the other. We have a chance to get a QB who actually elevates his supporting cast. Dismissing it out of hand is silly.

And if Manning does come in, we will see what throwing to a "bad" player like Crabtree will do for him. I'd be willing to wager Crabtree would look pretty good with Manning at QB.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

to summarize my thoughts. bringing in manning (assuming he isn't damaged goods) isn't addressing the weakest links on offense. we would have a 2-3 year window and wasting it on the complete crap we have at certain positions isn't gonna get things done. getting manning means making a push for the super bowl. having a washed up soft wr and a guy who can't run routes or catch the ball isn't gonna get it done.

it's like giving a surgeon a butter knife.

The weakest link on offense is at the QB position.

That's not to say Smith is comparatively the worst player at his position, but he plays a position where talent makes more difference than any other. A mediocre player on OL or WR can look much better with a good QB.

And yet a-mother-fucking-gain, WE CAN ADD PLAYERS IN THE DRAFT.

 

[imac_21]

to summarize my thoughts. bringing in manning (assuming he isn't damaged goods) isn't addressing the weakest links on offense. we would have a 2-3 year window and wasting it on the complete crap we have at certain positions isn't gonna get things done. getting manning means making a push for the super bowl. having a washed up soft wr and a guy who can't run routes or catch the ball isn't gonna get it done.

it's like giving a surgeon a butter knife.

So because it isn't the weakest position on the team, we shouldn't upgrade it? I guess we should forget about upgrading WR too because it's in better shape than RG.

If signing Manning is a mistake because it doesn't help us enough, what is signing Smith?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

and i never ever said smith was better than manning, so please dont make shit up

And I didn't say you did. Acting as if Manning won't significantly improve this offense - as you have stated repeatedly - is preposterous. How'd Austin Collie, Blair White, and Jacob Tamme do last year? They looked pretty darn good with Manning at QB.

 

[Flyingiguana]

So because it isn't the weakest position on the team, we shouldn't upgrade it? I guess we should forget about upgrading WR too because it's in better shape than RG.

If signing Manning is a mistake because it doesn't help us enough, what is signing Smith?

where did i say signing manning is a mistake?

 

[Flyingiguana]

And I didn't say you did. Acting as if Manning won't significantly improve this offense - as you have stated repeatedly - is preposterous. How'd Austin Collie, Blair White, and Jacob Tamme do last year? They looked pretty darn good with Manning at QB.

3rd and 4th wr's aren't gonna get as many balls with a back up qb. manning has run that offense for years and wayne/clark get so much attention it opens up others.

having collie as a #1 option would be like having crabtree as a #1 option. it would obviously hurt manning's numbers. if you're gonna have an elite qb, u need other pieces. u need wr's capable of starting and u need a rb that can back off a pass rush. we have gore, but we don't have a starting calibre wr. moss hasn't played in a year and we don't know which side of moss we'll get.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

to summarize my thoughts. bringing in manning (assuming he isn't damaged goods) isn't addressing the weakest links on offense. we would have a 2-3 year window and wasting it on the complete crap we have at certain positions isn't gonna get things done. getting manning means making a push for the super bowl. having a washed up soft wr and a guy who can't run routes or catch the ball isn't gonna get it done.

it's like giving a surgeon a butter knife.

I just don't look at it this way. We are giving him a top level runningback (and a pretty damn good backup), the best tight end in football, great special teams, and a dominant defense. Those are all givens. Maybe Moss still has something left in the tank. Until the playoffs Crabtree was starting to improve last year. Maybe with the right QB he plays a little better. Either way, Manning with our group of receivers (plus maybe a rookie or something because we don't have enough on roster) is much better to me, than having Smith back there with the same guys, plus maybe Wallace. Then in the next couple years we either draft a QB for the future, or maybe CK is making strides and he is looked at for that roll.

 

[imac_21]

where did i say signing manning is a mistake?

You said it's a mistake if that's all they do.

Now, if signing Manning is a mistake, what is signing Smith?

 

[9er4life]

Seriously you posted it in 1012 what was it like then?

I find it amusing that you make a comment about a simple typo considering what the quote in your sig says.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

3rd and 4th wr's aren't gonna get as many balls with a back up qb. manning has run that offense for years and wayne/clark get so much attention it opens up others.

having collie as a #1 option would be like having crabtree as a #1 option. it would obviously hurt manning's numbers. if you're gonna have an elite qb, u need other pieces. u need wr's capable of starting and u need a rb that can back off a pass rush. we have gore, but we don't have a starting calibre wr. moss hasn't played in a year and we don't know which side of moss we'll get.

And - I'm having deja vu here - we have the draft. We're not going to get an elite WR at this point. But I bet if we have Manning, we get pretty good production from the position. Not to mention we have a good group of RBs - far better than anything Manning has had since Edge left - and an all-world TE.

Again, if Manning comes in, I'll bet the offense looks completely different even if we make minimal changes. A few weeks ago I made a post about our offensive talent, and I count 18-20 teams who are comparable to or worse than the Niners. All but one of those teams was more effective on third down and all but two were more effective in the red zone.

 

[Flyingiguana]

The weakest link on offense is at the QB position.

That's not to say Smith is comparatively the worst player at his position, but he plays a position where talent makes more difference than any other. A mediocre player on OL or WR can look much better with a good QB.

And yet a-mother-fucking-gain, WE CAN ADD PLAYERS IN THE DRAFT.

adding players in the draft might not address current needs. there is a lack of guards and wr is blah this year.

i think konz or ben jones could replace goodwin this season, but it's hard to say how a rookie will play. konz should be able to play guard or centre his first year and play it well. 2nd round looks like it could be great value at corner. plus dwayne allen could drop to the late 2nd. a 2nd TE is basically a starter on this offense.

nobody can make crabtree look like a #1 wr if he can't get a step on webster.

 

[imac_21]

Iguana, answer this.

Is this a better team next year, assuming no other additions, with Peyton Manning at QB or Alex Smith at QB?

 

[Flyingiguana]

And - I'm having deja vu here - we have the draft. We're not going to get an elite WR at this point. But I bet if we have Manning, we get pretty good production from the position. Not to mention we have a good group of RBs - far better than anything Manning has had since Edge left - and an all-world TE.

Again, if Manning comes in, I'll bet the offense looks completely different even if we make minimal changes. A few weeks ago I made a post about our offensive talent, and I count 18-20 teams who are comparable to or worse than the Niners. All but one of those teams was more effective on third down and all but two were more effective in the red zone.

no red zone target and a poor interior line. even gore couldn't go anywhere because the line got no push. harbaugh was also settling for field goals if we already had the lead.

these issues have to be addressed because u can't turn a toad into a princess. every effort needs to be made to surround manning with talent. the offensive line is critical considering manning is coming off of some serious surgery.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Iguana, answer this.

Is this a better team next year, assuming no other additions, with Peyton Manning at QB or Alex Smith at QB?

assuming manning is healthy, manning

why even ask this?

 

[imac_21]

assuming manning is healthy, manning

why even ask this?

Because you seem to be very against adding Manning, and have been slobbering Smith's cock all offseason. Just wanted to know where you actually stand.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Because you seem to be very against adding Manning, and have been slobbering Smith's cock all offseason. Just wanted to know where you actually stand.

that's not the case at all. whether we have smith or not doesn't change the problems with our offense.

we still need to sign a couple wr's, one at the very least. burress could be a cheap option as a red zone target. a guy like donnie avery could be a very good #3. there's not much left for linemen, but gallery could be a good pick up.

don't think we'd have to restructure many contracts. but bringing back franklin as a run stuffer and sign wimbley as a situational pass rusher would be smart moves. to add, some depth at running back would be nice. either a replacement for dixon like tolbert or someone like cadilac williams who can step in for gore.

 

[imac_21]

that's not the case at all. whether we have smith or not doesn't change the problems with our offense.

we still need to sign a couple wr's, one at the very least. burress could be a cheap option as a red zone target. a guy like donnie avery could be a very good #3. there's not much left for linemen, but gallery could be a good pick up.

don't think we'd have to restructure many contracts. but bringing back franklin as a run stuffer and sign wimbley as a situational pass rusher would be smart moves.

So your issue is with the offense, and you want to throw money at Abrauyo Franklin to be a run stuffer on the best run defense in the league? Because that's an area that needs to be addressed.

You're arguing out of both sides of your mouth here. You say replacing Smith doesn't fix anything, but you also say that with Manning we're a better team.

if we've improved, it sounds like something has been fixed. We won't be the 98 offense, but we will be improved.

Please tell us all why improving the team is a bad thing.

 

[Flyingiguana]

my fucking point is, why bring in manning without making a damn push for the super bowl?

WHY STOP THERE?

 

[JMedlock5186]

I find it amusing that you make a comment about a simple typo considering what the quote in your sig says.

Do explain, sir.

 

[clyde_carbon]

i never said smith bears no responsibility, but at some point there needs to be talent around a qb. and after injuries we had none at wr. when pass rushers come clean at a qb and gore whiffs on a block, that could end manning's career. same thing happened with young and he wasn't exactly an easy qb to sack either.

bringing in manning to throw to bad players like crabtree isn't gonna do fuck all for us. watch how much lloyd gets, i doubt it'll be much more if it is more than crabtree's cap number.

That point is now. There's plenty of talent on offense. We have one of the best OLs in the NFC, one of the best RB groups in the NFC, one of the best TE duos in the NFL, to go along with the best special teams and best defense. Does Alex also need all star WRs too to finally be able to throw for over 18 TDs in a season? If that's the case, he needed to GTFO yesterday.

Or is the talent on offense holding Alex back?