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Series Thread: 3) Philadelphia Sixers vs 6) Brooklyn Nets

trojanfan12

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Simmons was literally standing around, got pushed in the back near Dudley and then Dudley pulled him to the ground while Simmons had his arms outstretched...


Simmons immediately gets back up on his feet and was clearly irritated that Dudley pulled him to the ground.

So, in other words, Simmons wasn't innocently standing off to the side staying out of the fray. Simmons was the 2nd Sixer there after Butler.

I don't condone Dudley grabbing his arms, but if Simmons isn't there, it doesn't happen. Also, Simmons, pushed or not, was basically chest to chest with Dudley when Dudley wrapped his arms around him and pulls him down with him.
 

Wamu

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So, in other words, Simmons wasn't innocently standing off to the side staying out of the fray. Simmons was the 2nd Sixer there after Butler.

I don't condone Dudley grabbing his arms, but if Simmons isn't there, it doesn't happen. Also, Simmons, pushed or not, was basically chest to chest with Dudley when Dudley wrapped his arms around him and pulls him down with him.

In the video @ the 10 second mark you can clearly see that Simmons was pushed (if you wanna call it a push) by his teammate Harris. I didn't care for Dudley's antics though getting the whole thing started.
 

flyerhawk

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So, in other words, Simmons wasn't innocently standing off to the side staying out of the fray. Simmons was the 2nd Sixer there after Butler.

I don't condone Dudley grabbing his arms, but if Simmons isn't there, it doesn't happen. Also, Simmons, pushed or not, was basically chest to chest with Dudley when Dudley wrapped his arms around him and pulls him down with him.

Do you think that Simmons was acting aggressively in any way? Do you think he should have been T'd up?

The referee fell on top of Simmons.

Regardless, my point was about Dudley's actions and his attempt to instigate a fight with Simmons. If you think Summons was being confrontational then we clearly see things very differently on that play.
 

trojanfan12

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In the video @ the 10 second mark you can clearly see that Simmons was pushed (if you wanna call it a push) by his teammate Harris. I didn't care for Dudley's antics though getting the whole thing started.

I agree. But to be pushed into Dudley, he had to be close enough to be pushed into him. He was the 2nd Sixer there after Butler, but didn't make any contact with him until he was pushed himself.
 

trojanfan12

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Do you think that Simmons was acting aggressively in any way? Do you think he should have been T'd up?

No. When it happened live, it looked like Dudley, Butler and Simmons should all get T'd up. But Simmons didn't actually make any contact with Dudley until he was pushed. So, while Simmons shouldn't have been that close, he also didn't appear to do anything that was worthy of a tech.

The point is though, he wouldn't have been involved at all if he wasn't the 2nd Sixer there.

Regardless, my point was about Dudley's actions and his attempt to instigate a fight with Simmons. If you think Summons was being confrontational then we clearly see things very differently on that play.

I disagree. I think that Dudley was confronting Embiid whose foul looked a whole lot worse in real time than it actually was. When Simmons was pushed into Dudley, Dudley likely had no idea that Simmons was pushed and likely thought that Simmons was trying to fight him. It's not like they don't have history. lol

Honestly, I don't really think anyone should have been T'd. But the series has been getting chippy so the refs felt they had to do something to avoid losing control. So, in the end, I think they got it right except that Embiid should have gotten a common foul, not a flagrant 1.
 

dtgold88

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Butler is a very talented player but i would never pay him market value to be on my team.

If I could get him for 20M a year? absolutely i take him--

but at the 4/140 (at the least) he is going to command? HELL NO. especially with him being 30 at the beginning of next season with a bunch of Thibs Miles on him.
Butler walks away and you say he doesn't stick up for his teammates. Amiright?
 

dtgold88

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A team that has Jimmy Butler as a fourth option should be pretty damned good.
4th scoring option? Or 4th best player. I think he's neither but where is he the 4th option to you?

I think he is 2nd scoring option and 2nd or 3rd best player.
 

dtgold88

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I think that is a fair point.

But at the same time, Butler and Embiid pretty much said that they will do the exact same thing next time it goes down like this too.

So if Dudley does get suspended, so does Butler.

In that lense, I don't think either should be suspended.

But expect a short leash on all the primary players in this drama for game 5. Simmons included.

And Brett Brown had better be in his players' ear telling them to be above the physical stuff. Because if game 5 is going Philly's way, guess what Dudley is going to do? A similar response could get one or two of the Philly stars a seat on the pine for the next game, which could be devastating.
Could even argue based on his logic Embid should get a suspension for laughing about clearly hitting Allen hard with an elbow....then arguably doing it again.

But agree overall if nothing had happened leading up to this we are looking at some Ts. No ejections.
 

flyerhawk

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No. When it happened live, it looked like Dudley, Butler and Simmons should all get T'd up. But Simmons didn't actually make any contact with Dudley until he was pushed. So, while Simmons shouldn't have been that close, he also didn't appear to do anything that was worthy of a tech.

That's how I see it.

The point is though, he wouldn't have been involved at all if he wasn't the 2nd Sixer there.

I guess. He was right there to start. He's not going to run away from the situation. He was clearly looking to NOT escalate though.

I disagree. I think that Dudley was confronting Embiid whose foul looked a whole lot worse in real time than it actually was. When Simmons was pushed into Dudley, Dudley likely had no idea that Simmons was pushed and likely thought that Simmons was trying to fight him. It's not like they don't have history. lol

I don't know about you but I usually don't try to pull people into me when I'm scuffling with them. Secondly even as Simmons is being pushed into him he has his hands up.

Honestly, I don't really think anyone should have been T'd. But the series has been getting chippy so the refs felt they had to do something to avoid losing control. So, in the end, I think they got it right except that Embiid should have gotten a common foul, not a flagrant 1.

Oh I agree. I thought it should have been double Ts on Butler and Dudley and a common foul on Embiid, although even that was a bit harsh as he got a LOT of ball on the block.

And I don't think that anyone should be suspended either. My point is that the league office is going to let the Nets know that they won't tolerate instigation especially when it is targeting stars.
 

flyerhawk

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4th scoring option? Or 4th best player. I think he's neither but where is he the 4th option to you?

I think he is 2nd scoring option and 2nd or 3rd best player.

Butler is the 1st choice when the team is struggling. He's the 3rd or 4th choice when they are playing well.
 

dtgold88

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Butler is the 1st choice when the team is struggling. He's the 3rd or 4th choice when they are playing well.
So using hindsight IF Harris and Simmons are scoring then Butler is choice 4? I guess. But going into a game and not knowing how it will play out he's their #2 scorer IMO.
 

flyerhawk

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So using hindsight IF Harris and Simmons are scoring then Butler is choice 4? I guess. But going into a game and not knowing how it will play out he's their #2 scorer IMO.

The reality is that the offense is built around Simmons running the offense and Embiid being the focal point. On any given night, when the starting 5 are all playing, Embiid will always be the primary scorer and the 2nd scorer will be whoever is getting open.
 

dtgold88

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The reality is that the offense is built around Simmons running the offense and Embiid being the focal point. On any given night, when the starting 5 are all playing, Embiid will always be the primary scorer and the 2nd scorer will be whoever is getting open.
a fair point, but I think we know Butler can create his own shot better than Harris, and he's a better scorer than Simmons.
 

bksballer89

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Lmao always knew Sean was a thug

 

tlance

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4th scoring option? Or 4th best player. I think he's neither but where is he the 4th option to you?

I think he is 2nd scoring option and 2nd or 3rd best player.

Redick is clearly the worst player in the starting 5. But his only real job is to score and he averages the same PPG as both Butler and Harris since they have been in Philly.

You can view that in a lot of ways, but it looks to me like when they are playing their best, Simmons is attacking in the open court as a primary scoring option (even though he has the lowest PPG) and they run the majority of their plays for Embiid, Harris and Redick.

Butler tends to get most of his shots when things aren't going well (like game 1) or after the initial set has broken down.

But, along with Embiid, he is also probably the guy you want to create a shot at the end of the clock.

So I guess you could make a case for him being the second option, or the 5th depending on how you look at it. And depending on the situation and the game flow.

And I agree he is either the 2nd or 3rd best player. Personally I prefer Simmons but it is close. And Harris isn't too far behind either of them.

Really hard to say though, because Philly has 4 guys averaging between 16.9 and 18.2 PPG.
 

WiggyRuss

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Butler walks away and you say he doesn't stick up for his teammates. Amiright?
if LeBron James walks away i say its smart ---

when you are supposed to be this high level all star you are supposed to know better and let the goons do their work-

This is why the Cavs got guys like Perkins and Dahntay Jones-

because LeBron was not stupid enough to get him ejected and being drawn into a fight with a nobody like Jared Dudley
 

dtgold88

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if LeBron James walks away i say its smart ---

when you are supposed to be this high level all star you are supposed to know better and let the goons do their work-

This is why the Cavs got guys like Perkins and Dahntay Jones-

because LeBron was not stupid enough to get him ejected and being drawn into a fight with a nobody like Jared Dudley
You really think what he did warranted an ejection? stars have done far more and stayed in games.

But I stick to my comment....if he backed off you call him a puss. I'm as close to 100% as one can be on that.
 
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