Series Thread: 3) Philadelphia Sixers vs 6) Brooklyn Nets

[WiggyRuss]

The 76ers upcoming offseason will have historic luxury tax obligations

It's not impossible.
It may be unlikely due to the tax implications, but it is not impossible.
Really all depends on the length of the Butler contract.
A 3 year max deal would not be terrible, apparently.

its possible I win the power ball...not impossible...but very unlikely. Really depends on the amount of tickets I buy and how lucky I get.

 

[Sparhawk]

its possible I win the power ball...not impossible...but very unlikely. Really depends on the amount of tickets I buy and how lucky I get.

If the Sixers beat Toronto and Butler is a key player, are you suggesting the odds are 0.0% that the Sixers re-sign him???

 

[WiggyRuss]

If the Sixers beat Toronto and Butler is a key player, are you suggesting the odds are 0.0% that the Sixers re-sign him???

Im suggesting that there is a better chance I win the powerball then Embiid, Simmons, Harris and Butler are with the Sixers next year---- and that if I were the Sixers, id keep Harris because he is younger, doesnt have a ton of miles on him, isnt a head case, can play and excels without the ball, and just generally fits in better---and hes not an asshole.

I think they will keep one out of Harris nad Butler and since Harris is likely cheaper, younger, and a better fit, id keep him without a second thought.

 

[flyerhawk]

Im suggesting that there is a better chance I win the powerball then Embiid, Simmons, Harris and Butler are with the Sixers next year---- and that if I were the Sixers, id keep Harris because he is younger, doesnt have a ton of miles on him, isnt a head case, can play and excels without the ball, and just generally fits in better---and hes not an asshole.

I think they will keep one out of Harris nad Butler and since Harris is likely cheaper, younger, and a better fit, id keep him without a second thought.

It is absurd to suggest that the Sixers retaining both is a near zero chance event.

It may not happen but the Sixers didn't give up all those assets without considering the possibility of keeping both is ridiculous.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It is absurd to suggest that the Sixers retaining both is a near zero chance event.

It may not happen but the Sixers didn't give up all those assets without considering the possibility of keeping both is ridiculous.

hmmmm........ i actually looked into this a little bit, and while i think it is close to a zero chance all 4 are back..i wont say its 100% impossible as i once thought it was.

The reason is because of Ben Simmons sitll only being on the books for 8M next year. That, and Embiid is not at a "high max" deal yet- only at about 28M.

The cap is 116. They can of course go over the cap--- -and my contention is and always has been that its pretty much impossible to carry 4 max players.

Simmons will of course be up for a contract that will be at least 25% of the cap next summer.

Harris is in his 8th year and I believe Butler is in his 9th. Both are eligible for 30% max contracts because of that. So both are eligible for the 4/140. Since the Sixers have their Bird Rights (they traded for them) they can actually pay those guys even more. I think they are both eligible for Klay Thompson like 5 year 190's actually. Of course, I think that if the Sixers make an equal offer to those players (4/140- maybe even slightly- and I mean fucking slightly- less) it will mean they stay.

at that point it basically comes down to how they plan it out in the future. Could they get off of one of those contracts without having to bring in equal money? I think that would be a likely "no". Obviously it would mean Reddick is gone.

They cant and wont carry Simmons at 30, Embiid at 30, Harris at 35 and Butler at 35 (well slightly less than 35- but thats just the average over the 4 year deal- of course a little less early on and a little more later on)-- which is what it will cost them the season following this season.

I guess the question would come down to....can they sign Harris and Butler this offseason, with the eye of possibly moving one in a deal where they dont take back significant money once Simmons is extended.

That, and can they build the rest of the team that is competent. Reddick Boban, Scott, McConnell etc. would all likely be gone and be replaced by vet min. or near vet. min. guys- kind of like what Golden State has done in recent years.

 

[Sparhawk]

hmmmm........ i actually looked into this a little bit, and while i think it is close to a zero chance all 4 are back..i wont say its 100% impossible as i once thought it was.

The reason is because of Ben Simmons sitll only being on the books for 8M next year. That, and Embiid is not at a "high max" deal yet- only at about 28M.

The cap is 116. They can of course go over the cap--- -and my contention is and always has been that its pretty much impossible to carry 4 max players.

Simmons will of course be up for a contract that will be at least 25% of the cap next summer.

Harris is in his 8th year and I believe Butler is in his 9th. Both are eligible for 30% max contracts because of that. So both are eligible for the 4/140. Since the Sixers have their Bird Rights (they traded for them) they can actually pay those guys even more. I think they are both eligible for Klay Thompson like 5 year 190's actually. Of course, I think that if the Sixers make an equal offer to those players (4/140- maybe even slightly- and I mean fucking slightly- less) it will mean they stay.

at that point it basically comes down to how they plan it out in the future. Could they get off of one of those contracts without having to bring in equal money? I think that would be a likely "no". Obviously it would mean Reddick is gone.

They cant and wont carry Simmons at 30, Embiid at 30, Harris at 35 and Butler at 35 (well slightly less than 35- but thats just the average over the 4 year deal- of course a little less early on and a little more later on)-- which is what it will cost them the season following this season.

I guess the question would come down to....can they sign Harris and Butler this offseason, with the eye of possibly moving one in a deal where they dont take back significant money once Simmons is extended.

That, and can they build the rest of the team that is competent. Reddick Boban, Scott, McConnell etc. would all likely be gone and be replaced by vet min. or near vet. min. guys- kind of like what Golden State has done in recent years.

 

[flyerhawk]

hmmmm........ i actually looked into this a little bit, and while i think it is close to a zero chance all 4 are back..i wont say its 100% impossible as i once thought it was.

The reason is because of Ben Simmons sitll only being on the books for 8M next year. That, and Embiid is not at a "high max" deal yet- only at about 28M.

The cap is 116. They can of course go over the cap--- -and my contention is and always has been that its pretty much impossible to carry 4 max players.

Simmons will of course be up for a contract that will be at least 25% of the cap next summer.

Harris is in his 8th year and I believe Butler is in his 9th. Both are eligible for 30% max contracts because of that. So both are eligible for the 4/140. Since the Sixers have their Bird Rights (they traded for them) they can actually pay those guys even more. I think they are both eligible for Klay Thompson like 5 year 190's actually. Of course, I think that if the Sixers make an equal offer to those players (4/140- maybe even slightly- and I mean fucking slightly- less) it will mean they stay.

at that point it basically comes down to how they plan it out in the future. Could they get off of one of those contracts without having to bring in equal money? I think that would be a likely "no". Obviously it would mean Reddick is gone.

They cant and wont carry Simmons at 30, Embiid at 30, Harris at 35 and Butler at 35 (well slightly less than 35- but thats just the average over the 4 year deal- of course a little less early on and a little more later on)-- which is what it will cost them the season following this season.

I guess the question would come down to....can they sign Harris and Butler this offseason, with the eye of possibly moving one in a deal where they dont take back significant money once Simmons is extended.

That, and can they build the rest of the team that is competent. Reddick Boban, Scott, McConnell etc. would all likely be gone and be replaced by vet min. or near vet. min. guys- kind of like what Golden State has done in recent years.

You are making assumptions about what the Sixers ownership will or won't be willing to do. And you are assuming that Butler and Harris will both get max deals. And you are assuming that the Sixers would take on 4 max players for a year to go for a title and break the team up afterwards.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You are making assumptions about what the Sixers ownership will or won't be willing to do. And you are assuming that Butler and Harris will both get max deals. And you are assuming that the Sixers would take on 4 max players for a year to go for a title and break the team up afterwards.

they are all common sense and logical assumptions.

Its not logical and is far fetched to think that the Sixers will carry 4 players at an aggregate of roughly 130M. Show me another team in the league that has done that.

I am not biased against the Sixers, id rather see the Sixers win than the Celtics, and I rather enjoy watching Embiid clown Whiteside every once in a while (even though Embiid is a little bit of a douche at times).

A. Harris and Butler are eligible for 4/140 from other teams. Do you think that either signs for anything close to substantially less than that? The LEAST, absolute LEAST i could see is 4/120 for either- and even that I doubt.

B. Simmons will be eliglbe for AT LEAST 25% of a a cap of about 120M next summer. That assumes he does not make All NBA's/start All Star games etc. and get a Rose Rule 30%, which is certainly possible. That will START him at 30M, and after raises, a 4-5 year deal for him will come out to roughly between 4/130 and 5/175 (roughly).

C. Embiid is at 28M this up coming summer and 30 the following upcoming summer.


What would you ball park the chances that the Sixers will be carrying those 4 players while they are all on max or near max contracts? I will go back to my previously stated NO WAY IN HELL answer.

An NBA team pretty much cant carry 4 max guys.

Its why I said MAYBE they can before Simmons gets his and then they do something, but even that is fairly impractical since the rest of the roster woudl either be young guys or vet min guys and assumes they can pull off a deal where they send out a Harris or Butler without taking back near as much money as going out.

 

[flyerhawk]

they are all common sense and logical assumptions.

Its not logical and is far fetched to think that the Sixers will carry 4 players at an aggregate of roughly 130M. Show me another team in the league that has done that.

I am not biased against the Sixers, id rather see the Sixers win than the Celtics, and I rather enjoy watching Embiid clown Whiteside every once in a while (even though Embiid is a little bit of a douche at times).

A. Harris and Butler are eligible for 4/140 from other teams. Do you think that either signs for anything close to substantially less than that? The LEAST, absolute LEAST i could see is 4/120 for either- and even that I doubt.

B. Simmons will be eliglbe for AT LEAST 25% of a a cap of about 120M next summer. That assumes he does not make All NBA's/start All Star games etc. and get a Rose Rule 30%, which is certainly possible. That will START him at 30M, and after raises, a 4-5 year deal for him will come out to roughly between 4/130 and 5/175 (roughly).

C. Embiid is at 28M this up coming summer and 30 the following upcoming summer.


What would you ball park the chances that the Sixers will be carrying those 4 players while they are all on max or near max contracts? I will go back to my previously stated NO WAY IN HELL answer.

An NBA team pretty much cant carry 4 max guys.

Its why I said MAYBE they can before Simmons gets his and then they do something, but even that is fairly impractical since the rest of the roster woudl either be young guys or vet min guys and assumes they can pull off a deal where they send out a Harris or Butler without taking back near as much money as going out.

We are talking about this offseason. They could resign both Butler and Harris and then move them in a year or two if necessary.

 

[eaglesnut]

 

[WiggyRuss]

We are talking about this offseason. They could resign both Butler and Harris and then move them in a year or two if necessary.

do you think that all 4 will be back next year? just looking at it realistically.

I dont as you can tell. I think they will have to decide between Butler and Harris because they will have next to zero flexibility to build any kind of roster around their stars if they keep all 4, and in a years time they will be choked out from doing basically anything once Simmons gets his max.

I think they will opt to keep Harris because he is younger, does not need the ball as much, seems like a better guy and teammate, has less miles on him, and MIGHT be slightly less expensive.

I think this is the both the most likely, and most logical course of action.



cmon, give me a ballpark figure that Harris, Butler, Simmons and Embiid are all on the Sixers Game 1 next year....i am saying 3%

 

[flyerhawk]

do you think that all 4 will be back next year? just looking at it realistically.

I dont as you can tell. I think they will have to decide between Butler and Harris because they will have next to zero flexibility to build any kind of roster around their stars if they keep all 4, and in a years time they will be choked out from doing basically anything once Simmons gets his max.

I think they will opt to keep Harris because he is younger, does not need the ball as much, seems like a better guy and teammate, has less miles on him, and MIGHT be slightly less expensive.

I think this is the both the most likely, and most logical course of action.



cmon, give me a ballpark figure that Harris, Butler, Simmons and Embiid are all on the Sixers Game 1 next year....i am saying 3%

I honestly have no idea what the Sixers are planning to do. From a practical perspective it wouldn't make sense to resign both of them because they would very expensive for 4-5 years.

OTOH, I would imagine(hope) that the Sixers have a plan that includes maximizing Butler and Harris. I have no idea what it is though.

 

[Sparhawk]

do you think that all 4 will be back next year? just looking at it realistically.

I dont as you can tell. I think they will have to decide between Butler and Harris because they will have next to zero flexibility to build any kind of roster around their stars if they keep all 4, and in a years time they will be choked out from doing basically anything once Simmons gets his max.

I think they will opt to keep Harris because he is younger, does not need the ball as much, seems like a better guy and teammate, has less miles on him, and MIGHT be slightly less expensive.

I think this is the both the most likely, and most logical course of action.



cmon, give me a ballpark figure that Harris, Butler, Simmons and Embiid are all on the Sixers Game 1 next year....i am saying 3%

Sixers lose in 5 or less to Toronto, then the answer is 0%.
Sixers lose to Toronto in a close 6 or 7, then 10%.
Sixers win, but Butler doesn't do much, then 25%.
Sixers win and Butler is instrumental, then 75%.

What is most likely and most logical to happen is not relevant until they finish the series with Toronto.

Incidentally, those first two might also be the same odds for Brown not getting fired.

 

[dtgold88]

If the Sixers beat Toronto and Butler is a key player, are you suggesting the odds are 0.0% that the Sixers re-sign him???

he's suggesting it's as likely he win a lottery with a gazillion-1 odds than Butler playing a key role in Philly success.

 

[dtgold88]

Im suggesting that there is a better chance I win the powerball then Embiid, Simmons, Harris and Butler are with the Sixers next year---- and that if I were the Sixers, id keep Harris because he is younger, doesnt have a ton of miles on him, isnt a head case, can play and excels without the ball, and just generally fits in better---and hes not an asshole.

I think they will keep one out of Harris nad Butler and since Harris is likely cheaper, younger, and a better fit, id keep him without a second thought.

292,000,000-1 to win the powerball. someone offers you, say, 10,000-1 odds on Butler staying in Philly and you say "no thanks"?

OK, let's assume Harris is a better player and fit, which I'm not so sure is the case. Do you get how this free agency thing works? No chance Harris would not prefer to play elsewhere? No chance Philly gets to the Finals and wants to bring the band back no matter the cost (can always move someone later if they want)?

 

[dtgold88]

do you think that all 4 will be back next year? just looking at it realistically.

I dont as you can tell. I think they will have to decide between Butler and Harris because they will have next to zero flexibility to build any kind of roster around their stars if they keep all 4, and in a years time they will be choked out from doing basically anything once Simmons gets his max.

I think they will opt to keep Harris because he is younger, does not need the ball as much, seems like a better guy and teammate, has less miles on him, and MIGHT be slightly less expensive.

I think this is the both the most likely, and most logical course of action.



cmon, give me a ballpark figure that Harris, Butler, Simmons and Embiid are all on the Sixers Game 1 next year....i am saying 3%

I don't follow them enough to know what type of owner or owners they have. But I'd say it's at least 25% chance they keep both Harris and Butler and worry about Simmons deal the following year (perhaps moving Harris or Butler).

Just depends on the owner, really. Let me ask you this....after the 2016 season there was a loophole where the Cavs could go over the cap (by even more than they were) and offer a max deal to Durant you don't think Gilbert would do it (if for no other reason than to make sure GS didn't get him)?

 

[trojanfan12]

Sixers lose in 5 or less to Toronto, then the answer is 0%.
Sixers lose to Toronto in a close 6 or 7, then 10%.
Sixers win, but Butler doesn't do much, then 25%.
Sixers win and Butler is instrumental, then 75%.

What is most likely and most logical to happen is not relevant until they finish the series with Toronto.

Incidentally, those first two might also be the same odds for Brown not getting fired.

Agree. I think this series is going to go a long way to determining what the Sixers do this off-season.

They didn't trade for Butler to end up with another 5 game 2nd round exit.

If they get to at least the ECF, then I think there's probably a good chance they look to bring everyone back for at least 1 more season.

If it's another 2nd round exit, then I think they will have some tough decisions to make. In Butler's case, he may make the decision for them.