247Sports 15 Toughest Schedules

[Rolltide94]

So you’re in denial that it’s a benefit that the SEC and ACC play one extra P5? An on a bad year you get 4 extra wins in the conference, on a good year you get 6/7. As I said that’s the difference between a 7 win team becoming an 8 win team and getting ranked. A 5 win team becoming a 6 win team and bowling and a 10 win team becoming an 11 win team and being in the playoff picture.

No, you are in denial, it is never 6 or 7 games. There has never been a year where the SEC has won 13 or 14 of 14 G5 games, which is what you are trying to say. Hell, we only manage to win all the FCS games every other season, so your premise is ridiculous.

Alabama, which by by most accounts would be considered an elite program. We have a lot of National Championships spread over a lot of decades and since most P5 conferences went to an 11 game schedule in 1941, we have had 55 seasons with 8 wins or better and only 7 losing seasons. My point being we have been good for a long time and consistently good.

We win our games versus non-P5 FBS opponents 78.4% of the time.

Since we already play Tennessee every year, our potential conference opponents are as follows with our historical winning percentage against each:

South Carolina - .733
Georgia - .609
Missouri - .667
Vanderbilt - .744
Florida - .641
Kentucky - .938

That averages out to a win 72.2% of the time.

SO, for Alabama, historically if we played a hundred games versus G5 teams we would win 78 games and if we played one of the other SEC East teams we would win 72 times in 100 games.

So, roughly 6% of the time we would do better playing a G5 opponent versus.

I don't know how well you math, but historically that means about once every 16 or 17 seasons Alabama would be better off playing a G5 opponent, winning a game they should not have won. Obviously if we played a team like Georgia our chance of winning goes way down compared to Kentucky, but that is true of G5 opponents too. We are much more likely to drop one to Boise State than we are to Troy and so on.

Like I said yesterday, The teams at the top are going to win, the teams at the bottom are going to lose, if you ran Vandy's numbers you are going to get something that looks like the complete opposite of Alabama, they are much more likely to lose either game. It is the teams in the middle that are getting the coin flip. Take 2019 for example. LSU is not losing ot any of the SEC East teams they didn't play, just wasn't going to happen, nor are they losing to any G5 opponent, by contrast I don't think Arkansas beats any of them, but they also lost one of their G5 games. 6-7 Mississippi St. They won both their G5 games and played Kentucky and Tennessee, leaving Missouri, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida as potential opponents. As I said earlier, that is a coin flip, Georgia or Florida, they lose, Vanderbilt they win, Missouri/South Carolina, flip a coin.

So again, your teams in the middle may or may not benefit depending on the year and who they draw, so you are deciding who gets to go to Music City Bowl, not who is going to the playoffs or who is being ranked. Pretending it is otherwise doesn't make it so, it just makes you too dumb to do the math.

 

[Rolltide94]

Either way the arguments are full of bias when they say 6 losses was average for the Pac when its actually the highest number in years.

Ok, you have 42 losses to G5 teams not named BYU in the last 9 seasons 2011-2019, so no maybe 6 isn't average, but the average is 4.66 and you only play 16.67 on average. I believe the SEC is closer to 6 losses on average, but we also play 9 or 10 more G5 games on average than you do. It's not bias, it's math and the math doesn't work in your favor. The only bias in the fact that you've lost more than 80% of your games versus ranked opponents in the last 4 years is confirmation bias, I didn't think your conference was good, and once the games were played, my bias was confirmed.

P.S. Please don't write six paragraphs telling me that's not what confirmation bias is...I know, it's called a joke.

 

[Olyduck]

Ok, you have 42 losses to G5 teams not named BYU in the last 9 seasons 2011-2019, so no maybe 6 isn't average, but the average is 4.66 and you only play 16.67 on average. I believe the SEC is closer to 6 losses on average, but we also play 9 or 10 more G5 games on average than you do. It's not bias, it's math and the math doesn't work in your favor. The only bias in the fact that you've lost more than 80% of your games versus ranked opponents in the last 4 years is confirmation bias, I didn't think your conference was good, and once the games were played, my bias was confirmed.

P.S. Please don't write six paragraphs telling me that's not what confirmation bias is...I know, it's called a joke.

did you only do regular season or did you include bowls? because I was only doing regular season since that was the discussion

 

[Olyduck]

I only counted 37 which would then be an average of 4.1

 

[ralphiewvu]

No, you are in denial, it is never 6 or 7 games. There has never been a year where the SEC has won 13 or 14 of 14 G5 games, which is what you are trying to say. Hell, we only manage to win all the FCS games every other season, so your premise is ridiculous.

Alabama, which by by most accounts would be considered an elite program. We have a lot of National Championships spread over a lot of decades and since most P5 conferences went to an 11 game schedule in 1941, we have had 55 seasons with 8 wins or better and only 7 losing seasons. My point being we have been good for a long time and consistently good.

We win our games versus non-P5 FBS opponents 78.4% of the time.

Since we already play Tennessee every year, our potential conference opponents are as follows with our historical winning percentage against each:

South Carolina - .733
Georgia - .609
Missouri - .667
Vanderbilt - .744
Florida - .641
Kentucky - .938

That averages out to a win 72.2% of the time.

SO, for Alabama, historically if we played a hundred games versus G5 teams we would win 78 games and if we played one of the other SEC East teams we would win 72 times in 100 games.

So, roughly 6% of the time we would do better playing a G5 opponent versus.

I don't know how well you math, but historically that means about once every 16 or 17 seasons Alabama would be better off playing a G5 opponent, winning a game they should not have won. Obviously if we played a team like Georgia our chance of winning goes way down compared to Kentucky, but that is true of G5 opponents too. We are much more likely to drop one to Boise State than we are to Troy and so on.

Like I said yesterday, The teams at the top are going to win, the teams at the bottom are going to lose, if you ran Vandy's numbers you are going to get something that looks like the complete opposite of Alabama, they are much more likely to lose either game. It is the teams in the middle that are getting the coin flip. Take 2019 for example. LSU is not losing ot any of the SEC East teams they didn't play, just wasn't going to happen, nor are they losing to any G5 opponent, by contrast I don't think Arkansas beats any of them, but they also lost one of their G5 games. 6-7 Mississippi St. They won both their G5 games and played Kentucky and Tennessee, leaving Missouri, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida as potential opponents. As I said earlier, that is a coin flip, Georgia or Florida, they lose, Vanderbilt they win, Missouri/South Carolina, flip a coin.

So again, your teams in the middle may or may not benefit depending on the year and who they draw, so you are deciding who gets to go to Music City Bowl, not who is going to the playoffs or who is being ranked. Pretending it is otherwise doesn't make it so, it just makes you too dumb to do the math.

So the SEC has never had a good year OOC. Ok

Your using bama’s record vs SEC east teams, some of which you played in the early 1900’s as a predictor of how you’d do vs them in the future? That’s an inexact way to look at it. Alabama has its train moving, you are telling me they are only beating 5.1 out of the 7 opponents from the SECe every year?

Also Alabama is a hell of a good team. Someone like them may not benefit as much. They still benefit but take a team like Missouri or Kentucky and instead of playing a G5, they have to play an A&M every year. You don’t think they fair better with the G5?

 

[Gatorchip]

It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.

The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.

 

[Olyduck]

It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.

The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.

TLDR

 

[78Cyclones]

It's not right, that chart is a joke. Not the part about there only being 8 blue bloods, it probably got that part right. And it's not even because Minnesota ISN'T among the Top 8/blue bloods on the list, although his 30 deep list, they should be on THAT list, but it's a joke because programs like Wisconsin and VT AND WEST VIRGINIA are on there.

The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up the high pt scorer in the entire NFL 10 times by 4 different players in 4 different decades?

Did I mention that UMn has had players end up as NFL All-Decade players 10 times in 6 different decades, more than any other school that I am aware of, as I checked after the 2000s all-Decade team, not after the 2010s team came out.



Looking at the teams on that list,
UMn has SIX Recognized Titles & 4-6 Poll Era Titles(34 AP & 35 UPI polls make it 6 for UMn), and UMn has a

1-0 record vs Bama,
1-0 record vs Clemson. Clemson has just 3 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Auburn. Auburn has just 2 Poll Era Titles, and 3 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Texas. UT has just 5 Poll Era Titles and 4 Recognized Titles.
1-0 record vs Ark. Ark has just 1 recognized Title
1-0 record vs GT. GT has just 1 Poll Era Title and 4 Recognized Titles
33-25-2 rcrd vs Nebraska
10-7 record vs Washington
9-3 record vs Pitt. Pitt has just 2 Poll Era Titles.
2-1 record vs UCLA. UCLA has just 1 Poll Era Title & only 1 Recognized Title.
62-49-2 rcrd vs Iowa. Iowa has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.
1-1-1 rcrd vs Stanford. Stanford has ZERO Poll Era Titles, but 1 Recognized Title.

That's 12 of the 30 teams on that list. UMn's cumulative record vs those 12 blue bloods & potential blue bloods is

123-86-5

61-37-3 not including Iowa.


We never played Geo, LSU, Flor, A&M, FSU, Miami, VT or WVU.

That brings it to TWENTY. 20 of the 30 teams on that list either never played the Gophers or do NOT have a winning record vs the Gophers. Of the teams on that list, who have not played Minnesota, lets compare # of Titles

UMn = 6 Recognized Titles. 4/6 Poll Era Titles.
LSU = 5 Recognized Titles. 4 Poll Era Titles.
Mia = 5 Recognized Titles. 5 Poll Era Titles.
Flor = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
FSU = 3 Recognized Titles. 3 Poll Era Titles.
VTch = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.
WVU = 0 Recognized Titles. 0 Poll Era Titles.

Michigan, just for those who are interested? Just TWO poll Era Titles. Pitt also has only 2 Poll Era Titles.
Col, Geo, GT, A&M, UCLA all only have 1 Poll Era Title.


Of the 10 remaining teams, Tennessee has just a 0-1 record vs UMn, and just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.
PSU has just a 6-9 advantage over Minnesota in head to head, & PSU has just 2 Poll Era Titles & only 4 Recognized Titles.

OSU & Mich have massive advantages over the Gophers, as does Notre Dame and USC.

That leaves Oklahoma, of the 8 legit Blue Bloods, with a decent advantage over the Gophers, but I must remind you all, it was a former Gopher that made Oklahoma into what they are, Bud Wilkinson led them to their first three Titles.

MSU, one of the few I haven't mentioned yet, has some advantages over the Gophers, mainly head to head, but MSU hardly existed before WW2, so that head to head thing would probably be in the Gophers favor had they played regularly before WW2, and it was a former Gopher, Biggie Munn who made them what they became. So there is that.


Leaving only 2 teams, 1 I am not sure, probably not important, the other is Wisconsin. We were tied 60-60-1 going into 2019. And UW has ZERO Titles of any kind, they don't even claim one.



So, not claiming in any way that UMn is a blue blood, but they absolutely belong on that Top 30 list. And I know exactly which team they could replace, Virginia Tech.

Cannot wait for the inevitable Florida vs. Minnesota Bowl Game match-up!

 

[Gatorchip]

Cannot wait for the inevitable Florida vs. Minnesota Bowl Game match-up!

National championship?

 

[ralphiewvu]

Fred is back!

 

[outofyourmind]

The chart's opening remarks say a program's dominance must not only span coaches, but generations. So how does a program like Minnesota whose dominance spanned AT LEAST 8 entire decades. Natties won in 5 of those decades by 3 different coaches, Conf Titles won in 7 of the 8, and multiple players from 7 of those 8 decades are enshrined in the Cfb Hall of Fame, and former Gophers kicking tail in pro football spans across EVERY decade for the last 13 decades, from the very first Pro fb player in history, Pudge Heffelfinger whose statue greets everyone visiting the Pro Football Hall of Fame at the entrance, to Tony Dungy becoming the first ever Black coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl Title just over a decade ago. In between, Pudge's time at Minnesota and becoming the first ever pro fb player in history, and Dungy's historic Super Bowl win, a UMner invented Cheerleading, then Pudge, as an asst to Head Coach Henry L Williams helped Williams develop the 4 man backfield which contributed to UMn's undefeated team stopping Michigan's Point a minute squad, tying the eventual Natl Champs in 1903. Bobby Marshall became the first black player to play in the B1G Conf. Williams was one of the first to propose the forward pass and one of the first to utilize it successfully in the teens. In 1920 former Gopher Bobby Marshall became the first ever black fb player to play in the NFL. Former Gopher Gil Dobie was establishing the long held cfb record unbeaten streak that was so long, it spanned THREE different coaching gigs, including his entire career at the University of Washington. This is a record that may never be matched. In the 20s Bronko Nagurski was so good he was named to the All-American team at 3 different positions, 2 in the same year even. And this was legit, as the DEFENSIVE Cfb POY Award is named after him, yet he was inducted into the Pro Fb Hall of Fame as an offensive player as a Fullback and was so good a famous movie scene was all about how Nagurski came out of retirement to help his old team win the Championship again in 1943. Former Gophers were coached so well by Henry Williams that they even shared Natl Titles as coaches as they did in 1940 when both Bernie Bierman coaching the Gophers went undefeated and were named Natl Champs and Clark Shaughnessy coaching Stanford went undefeated and were also named Natl Champs. So good were former Gophers at coaching, that Tulane University hired 3 straight former Gophers to coach them and for 3-4 decades Tulane was actually a blue blood. And at least one of the Natl Titles Bierman won at Minnesota was called the Henry L Williams Trophy, as it was renamed that after Minnesota won the Knute Rockne Trophy 3 times in a row. Had Bierman won the Title in 1942, it would have been retired and renamed after him possibly? But instead, Bierman's dominance at Minnesota was so dominating that it literally took the US Govt choosing to get involved in WW2 to end UMn's dominance as they were picked to win the Natl Title again, in 1942, which would have been their 6th Title in 9 years, but instead Bierman was taken away and placed as the coach of the Iowa Seahawks military training team, and over half of the Gopher's players were scooped away for military service several who ended up playing AGAINST the Gophers, including Unanimous All-American Bill Daley who finished 7th in the Heisman voting in 1943. But the kick in the nuts was when it was the Iowa Seahawks coached by Bernie Bierman himself and with a roster that included several former Gophers, were the team that ended UMn's winning streak. So it was Notre Dame who eventually retired the Henry L Williams trophy and got it renamed. After the war and after Bernie Bierman had to try to rebuild the program basically from scratch with players who, Bud Grant admitted to later on, didn't respond well to Bierman's coaching style because of their wartime experiences. They were probably good enough to win another Title in 1949 but the bad attitudes of the players, Bud Grant himself admitted, cost the team their 2 losses. So after Bierman who was already very old, retired, and UMn had missed out on the opportunity to hire either former Gophers Biggie Munn or Bud Wilkinson who combined dominated the late 1940s and early 1950s cfb scene, the UMn admin went with an outsider, and his failing to make an immediate impact got them seriously considering giving up on football all together, but then Warmath came out of nowhere, partly due to his being one of the first to bring in lots of black players, unusual in the 50s, and won the Natl Title in 1960 and continued doing well throughout the 60s. UMn's influence on the game of football in the 50s and into the 60s was SO WIDE, that former Gophers were taking turns coaching their teams to the CFL Grey Cup Championship game, and former Gophers were taking turns coaching their cfb teams to Natl Titles, all while UMn was doing fairly good as well. In 1962, Wisc, coached by a former Gopher, finished #2, Oklahoma, coached by a former Gopher finished #8, UMn finished #10, and Mizzou, coached by a former UMn-Duluth player, who was coached by a former Gopher, finished #12 in the nation all while Bud Grant's team was winning the Grey Cup Title. Biggie Munn stepped away from the sideline to lead MSU into the B1G conf as their Athletic Director, Bud Wilkinson retired soon after the 62 season and went into politics and being a game announcer/commentator and a very good one I've read, Devine moved on to Notre Dame and a Natl Title and infamy in how he was portrayed in the movie Rudy, Bud Grant went on into a Pro Hall of Fame career as an NFL coach, and Murray Warmath retired soon after winning a share of the Big Ten title in 1967 and unfortunately not getting his name in the cfb Hall of Fame where it probably deserves to be. Warmath's players went on to dominate in the NFL in the late 1960s and well into the 1970s and even a few into the 1980s. Bierman's former players continued coaching as late as into the 80s, as well as at least one of Warmath's players although most of his ended up playing in the NFL, not coaching. And Bierman's and that one Warmath player's impact on the game lasted into the 21st Century as both Tony Dungy and multiple CFL Title winning Coach Marc Trestman played for Cal Stoll while he was coaching Minnesota and beating #1 ranked Michigan in 77. And among Joe Salem's assistant coaches were Mike Martz and Mike Shanahan.

Now I'm sure I missed a bunch. The B1G conf didn't allow B1G teams to play in bowl games for most of UMn's peak years, so they weren't able to build up a ton of bowl game wins like some programs, yet since they became supposedly "irrelevant", they still were able to play in Bowl games in each of the last 6 decades, and have gotten to a bowl game in 15 of the 20 years of the 21st Century, so far, winning 7 of them, including their last 4.

 

[Rolltide94]

So the SEC has never had a good year OOC. Ok

Your using bama’s record vs SEC east teams, some of which you played in the early 1900’s as a predictor of how you’d do vs them in the future? That’s an inexact way to look at it. Alabama has its train moving, you are telling me they are only beating 5.1 out of the 7 opponents from the SECe every year?

Also Alabama is a hell of a good team. Someone like them may not benefit as much. They still benefit but take a team like Missouri or Kentucky and instead of playing a G5, they have to play an A&M every year. You don’t think they fair better with the G5?

No, it is actually an exact way of looking at it. Alabama is rolling now, some year they might not be, Tennessee is down now, but maybe not forever.

You're making my point for me. Alabama does have it's train moving. Hence the reason we are likely to win 12 games whether we play an SEC Least team or Colorado St. Like I said, every 16 years we will win a game we shouldn't based on historical results, you may find that statistically significant, I do not. If anything, we are way less likely to lose either now, but the principal remains, when we are down and less likely to beat say Georgia, we are also less likely to beat Fresno St. USC wins games every year they wouldn't in the SEC because they play in a shitty conference, it is what it is. Over the last three seasons the bottom 3 teams in the Pac-12 went 2-7 versus G5 teams and 18-63 in conference, so again, the bottom is just as likely to lose, the top is just as likely to win and in between somebody goes to the Meineke Car Care Fight the Power Bowl.

 

[ralphiewvu]

No, it is actually an exact way of looking at it. Alabama is rolling now, some year they might not be, Tennessee is down now, but maybe not forever.

You're making my point for me. Alabama does have it's train moving. Hence the reason we are likely to win 12 games whether we play an SEC Least team or Colorado St. Like I said, every 16 years we will win a game we shouldn't based on historical results, you may find that statistically significant, I do not. If anything, we are way less likely to lose either now, but the principal remains, when we are down and less likely to beat say Georgia, we are also less likely to beat Fresno St. USC wins games every year they wouldn't in the SEC because they play in a shitty conference, it is what it is. Over the last three seasons the bottom 3 teams in the Pac-12 went 2-7 versus G5 teams and 18-63 in conference, so again, the bottom is just as likely to lose, the top is just as likely to win and in between somebody goes to the Meineke Car Care Fight the Power Bowl.

Alabama hasn’t lost a game vs an SEC east opponent in 10 years. Using records of how they’ve done 100 years ago is a horrible way of looking at it.

The difference between you being less likely to beat Georgia and less likely to beat Fresno is huge though. Alabama being more likely to lose to any G5 is far less than Alabama being more likely to lose to a conference opponent. An I take back what I said, someone like Alabama and their SoS benefits from that extra 4-5 wins from conference mates. It makes them look better. No matter how much you want to say it’s inconsequential.

 

[HammerDown]

Yes, all conferences should move to 8 conf. games

...in which case the Big Ten admits Old Dominion.

 

[Rolltide94]

Alabama hasn’t lost a game vs an SEC east opponent in 10 years. Using records of how they’ve done 100 years ago is a horrible way of looking at it.

The difference between you being less likely to beat Georgia and less likely to beat Fresno is huge though. Alabama being more likely to lose to any G5 is far less than Alabama being more likely to lose to a conference opponent. An I take back what I said, someone like Alabama and their SoS benefits from that extra 4-5 wins from conference mates. It makes them look better. No matter how much you want to say it’s inconsequential.

We haven't lost to a G5 opponent in a decade either....which is my point.

The bottome 1/4 of the Pac-12 is 2-7 versus G5 opponents and 18-63 versus Pac-12 opponents...and the shitty teams get to play each other. Like I said, shitty teams will lose the game, good teams will win the game. The lower tier P5 teams can easily lose to a G5, the mid tier can go either way. Whether Texas A&M goes 7-5 or 6-6 isn't going to make a pins bit of difference on whether or not Alabama is in the playoffs. Thinks like being 4-20 against OOC ranked opponents over the last 4 years is what is keeping the Pac-12 out of the CFP, not whether Arizona State played Washington or San Jose State.

We each need to play less conference games against each other, not more. Everyone should play 8 plus 2 P5's OOC. Anything less just allows the weak conferences to hide behind their own skirts.

 

[ralphiewvu]

We haven't lost to a G5 opponent in a decade either....which is my point.

The bottome 1/4 of the Pac-12 is 2-7 versus G5 opponents and 18-63 versus Pac-12 opponents...and the shitty teams get to play each other. Like I said, shitty teams will lose the game, good teams will win the game. The lower tier P5 teams can easily lose to a G5, the mid tier can go either way. Whether Texas A&M goes 7-5 or 6-6 isn't going to make a pins bit of difference on whether or not Alabama is in the playoffs. Thinks like being 4-20 against OOC ranked opponents over the last 4 years is what is keeping the Pac-12 out of the CFP, not whether Arizona State played Washington or San Jose State.

We each need to play less conference games against each other, not more. Everyone should play 8 plus 2 P5's OOC. Anything less just allows the weak conferences to hide behind their own skirts.

More often then not a P5 beats a G5. So playing an extra G5 is an advantage. But I don’t blame the SEC or ACC, the used their noggins. It’s a clear advantage.

But to say we need to play less conference games is ridiculous. If this is the case then just go with regional divisions. Or just kill conferences all together. There is zero reason for conference mates to not play each other. You are basically arguing for Alabama playing a PAC team is better for your SoS then playing another SEC team, considering how much you think little of the PAC, I don’t think you truly believe this.

I’m for 8 conference games and 2 P5’s. But do it like the nfl does it rotating. Play in a rotating fashion the guy who finished the same place as you the last season up to the top 10 in each conference. (Because of the B12 having only 10 teams. The other 14 play each play 2 in that pool. That’d be nice.

 

[ericd7633]

More often then not a P5 beats a G5. So playing an extra G5 is an advantage. But I don’t blame the SEC or ACC, the used their noggins. It’s a clear advantage.

But to say we need to play less conference games is ridiculous. If this is the case then just go with regional divisions. Or just kill conferences all together. There is zero reason for conference mates to not play each other. You are basically arguing for Alabama playing a PAC team is better for your SoS then playing another SEC team, considering how much you think little of the PAC, I don’t think you truly believe this.

I’m for 8 conference games and 2 P5’s. But do it like the nfl does it rotating. Play in a rotating fashion the guy who finished the same place as you the last season up to the top 10 in each conference. (Because of the B12 having only 10 teams. The other 14 play each play 2 in that pool. That’d be nice.

We do need less conference games. An ideal world would be playing 8 conference games and then 2 P5 games and 2 G5/FCS games. Having more OOC games will help decide which conference(s) are the best in a particular season.

 

[LawDawg]

More often then not a P5 beats a G5. So playing an extra G5 is an advantage. But I don’t blame the SEC or ACC, the used their noggins. It’s a clear advantage.

But to say we need to play less conference games is ridiculous. If this is the case then just go with regional divisions. Or just kill conferences all together. There is zero reason for conference mates to not play each other. You are basically arguing for Alabama playing a PAC team is better for your SoS then playing another SEC team, considering how much you think little of the PAC, I don’t think you truly believe this.

I’m for 8 conference games and 2 P5’s. But do it like the nfl does it rotating. Play in a rotating fashion the guy who finished the same place as you the last season up to the top 10 in each conference. (Because of the B12 having only 10 teams. The other 14 play each play 2 in that pool. That’d be nice.

If college had a playoff system like the NFL, that might make sense. They don't. There isn't a drive for parity in college football, which is why the NFL schedules as they do.

You also can't compare college conferences to NFL Divisions. Each conference has their own governing body, each has its own traditions, and each has its own way it wants to run its conference. Unless the P5 splits off, and forms its own association, what you are wanting simply won't happen.

Finally, absent a draft, which also is designed for parity, you can never accomplish what you want. And you can't have a draft because kids get to decide what colleges they want to go to. Even as we get further and further away from the idea of the student athlete, at the end of the day the players are going to school and trying to get an education and degree. At least a good number of them. You can't take that choice away from them.

I agree that the 8 game schedule gives the SEC and Clemson an advantage. They are being smart. That said, Clemson's game every year against USCjr is better than 95% of the ACC games they could play. And they typically play a good 10th game - they have the Dawgs in 5 games over the next decade. Accckkk, defending Clemson, just threw up in my mouth.

If you really want more and better OOC games, simply go to an 8 team playoff. When a team knows they can lose a big game and still have a chance to get in the CFP, you will see better games. Just look at the scheduling for the next decade of UGA, Clemson, tOSU, Bama, OU and the other top teams. They are scheduling ridiculously difficult OOC in anticipation of an 8 team CFP.

 

[Rolltide94]

More often then not a P5 beats a G5. So playing an extra G5 is an advantage. But I don’t blame the SEC or ACC, the used their noggins. It’s a clear advantage.

But to say we need to play less conference games is ridiculous. If this is the case then just go with regional divisions. Or just kill conferences all together. There is zero reason for conference mates to not play each other. You are basically arguing for Alabama playing a PAC team is better for your SoS then playing another SEC team, considering how much you think little of the PAC, I don’t think you truly believe this.

I’m for 8 conference games and 2 P5’s. But do it like the nfl does it rotating. Play in a rotating fashion the guy who finished the same place as you the last season up to the top 10 in each conference. (Because of the B12 having only 10 teams. The other 14 play each play 2 in that pool. That’d be nice.

 

[ralphiewvu]

We do need less conference games. An ideal world would be playing 8 conference games and then 2 P5 games and 2 G5/FCS games. Having more OOC games will help decide which conference(s) are the best in a particular season.

Then do away with conferences. Truly there is no point if conference teams don’t pla each other.