21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[purdue81]

For the next couple of weeks hockey doesnt exist because the Rams are still playing

I'm sorry................ are you saying what we have been watching IS hockey ?

 

[purdue81]

I'm sorry................ are you saying what we have been watching IS hockey ?

Probably keep playing as long as Kessel does.....

 

[raptorlife4]

Sigh

 

[dspice07]

THe problem is that he already has. In pandering to AV with Hayes and his $7mil contract, he took a big chunk out of the available cap space. In dealing away Hagg and Myers he was cutting ties with organizational young depth for the sake of Ellis and a rental. He then filled up the roster with 30+ year old one and two year contracts ensuring that what prospects there are would not have a slot.

Undoing this is going to be harder than the mess that Clarke left for Holmgren (lest we forget).

When we signed Hayes I was upset it seemed like a drastic overpay. He started off pretty good and the first year I think you'd say OK we can work with that as our 2/3 C. But man...it is looking bleak now.

Also, I don't really pay attention to other teams but are we the only team that gives away NMC in contracts the way we do? Not only do we overpay for Hayes we throw in the NMC to really drive the knife deep. Not like he is tradeable anyways...

I look around the league and all I see is speed and talent. Do we have ANY players that fall into that category? I mean, I don't even know where you begin here with a rebuild. Sure you can go ahead and try and sell off anyone that good offers come for but what is the plan? We are so slow, so terribly coached, and organizationally a complete mess.

 

[lasgop8]

Probably keep playing as long as Kessel does.....

That will be a travesty.

 

[lasgop8]

When we signed Hayes I was upset it seemed like a drastic overpay. He started off pretty good and the first year I think you'd say OK we can work with that as our 2/3 C. But man...it is looking bleak now.

Also, I don't really pay attention to other teams but are we the only team that gives away NMC in contracts the way we do? Not only do we overpay for Hayes we throw in the NMC to really drive the knife deep. Not like he is tradeable anyways...

I look around the league and all I see is speed and talent. Do we have ANY players that fall into that category? I mean, I don't even know where you begin here with a rebuild. Sure you can go ahead and try and sell off anyone that good offers come for but what is the plan? We are so slow, so terribly coached, and organizationally a complete mess.

Whats up D!!!

The only problem i had at the time with the Hayes signing is we gave him both the years and then money. Usually you give one or the other not both.

We have no team speed and no team toughness in the entire organization and we can all that Hextall for that. He ruined us for years to come.

 

[dspice07]

Yo!

Hextall's whole thing seemed to be to draft forwards with the upside of being Scott Laughton.

On the defensive side I feel like we had the talent on that end and we completely blew it with their development and implementation into the NHL.

 

[lasgop8]

Yo!

Hextall's whole thing seemed to be to draft forwards with the upside of being Scott Laughton.

On the defensive side I feel like we had the talent on that end and we completely blew it with their development and implementation into the NHL.

I agree Hextall failed in all areas. He failed at drafting developing free agent signings and trades and we are now paying the price.

 

[awaz]

When we signed Hayes I was upset it seemed like a drastic overpay. He started off pretty good and the first year I think you'd say OK we can work with that as our 2/3 C. But man...it is looking bleak now.

Also, I don't really pay attention to other teams but are we the only team that gives away NMC in contracts the way we do? Not only do we overpay for Hayes we throw in the NMC to really drive the knife deep. Not like he is tradeable anyways...

I look around the league and all I see is speed and talent. Do we have ANY players that fall into that category? I mean, I don't even know where you begin here with a rebuild. Sure you can go ahead and try and sell off anyone that good offers come for but what is the plan? We are so slow, so terribly coached, and organizationally a complete mess.

No. And that's the major problem I see. Hextall seemed to think they could fix bad skating. Fletcher seems to as well. But look down the list and look up their scouting reports. Farabee, Lindblom, Frost, Foerster, Allison, Brink, Patrick, Ratcliffe, Vorobyev. Every single one of those guys you could find a scouting report before the draft that said "skating could use some work". Tuomaala last year was the first forward in almost 10 years that the Flyers spent a high pick on where skating was better than an outright weakness. Maybe TK too.

Supplemented with JvR and Hayes who are both slow as molasses. Paired all these guys up with Giroux and Voracek who are at their highest value in a stationary position on the PP.

And then they wonder why they get torched running a system that relies on an aggressive forecheck. I wonder if anyone in the organization thought "hey, maybe we're struggling to play this system because our players are slow as hell and physically can't get there" instead of it just being "they can't grasp it" or "they aren't playing hard enough". They're just, slow. You built a team of tortoises and hired a coach that want's to play like a Ferrari.

And that's just the speed side of things. Who among those guys was drafted because they have some off the charts talent? Frost maybe? Foerster's shot. The rest? "They're responsible two way guys, 200 ft player" is all over their scouting report. Draft a team full of that and you end up with 0 game breakers.

 

[awaz]

Yo!

Hextall's whole thing seemed to be to draft forwards with the upside of being Scott Laughton.

On the defensive side I feel like we had the talent on that end and we completely blew it with their development and implementation into the NHL.

Excellent summary. Painful. But true.

 

[purdue81]

5 Flyers That Should Lead the Rebuild - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Flyers decide it's time to rebuild, there are 5 players who have been around a few seasons that should lead them and stick around.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[lasgop8]

5 Flyers That Should Lead the Rebuild - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Flyers decide it's time to rebuild, there are 5 players who have been around a few seasons that should lead them and stick around.

thehockeywriters.com

I would agree with these 5 and hopefully we can make some good trades with everyone else

 

[lasgop8]

We have officially reached the half way mark of the season and are on pace for 68 points.

 

[awaz]

5 Flyers That Should Lead the Rebuild - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Flyers decide it's time to rebuild, there are 5 players who have been around a few seasons that should lead them and stick around.

thehockeywriters.com

I'd take it further. The Flyers tried this method before, with Giroux/Jake, and now we're seeing how a re-tool works.

Based on their play, you're looking at what, a #2 dman, a #3/4 dman, a 2nd or 3rd line winger, a 30 year old that is a borderline 1C now and probably should be a 2C when you're competitive again, and a starting goalie? Is that worth 28M (34% of next year's cap)? Add in Hayes (7M) who you're going to struggle to move and you're at 35M (42%). And not only have you spent a bunch of money without anybody to carry the team, but you're not bad enough to draft in the top 5. (at least you shouldn't be, these Flyers can obviously still find a way)

For me, Couturier has to go too. And if you want to get this ship turned around in a timely manner, you have to move at least some of guys like Farabee, Provorov, and Sanheim too. Get in high level picks or prospects that might turn in to guys that can be game changers instead of just "steady guys".

Say what you will about G, he was a higher caliber of player in 2014 (at the start of Hextall), than any of Couturier, Farabee, Provorov, Sanheim, and Hart are now. He had the potential to be a real center-piece, elite level guy, worthy of building around. Can you really say that about the others given what we've seen the last few years?

And if you don't have a center-piece, why waste the cap space and draft position on depth guys?

 

[purdue81]

I'd take it further. The Flyers tried this method before, with Giroux/Jake, and now we're seeing how a re-tool works.

Based on their play, you're looking at what, a #2 dman, a #3/4 dman, a 2nd or 3rd line winger, a 30 year old that is a borderline 1C now and probably should be a 2C when you're competitive again, and a starting goalie? Is that worth 28M (34% of next year's cap)? Add in Hayes (7M) who you're going to struggle to move and you're at 35M (42%). And not only have you spent a bunch of money without anybody to carry the team, but you're not bad enough to draft in the top 5. (at least you shouldn't be, these Flyers can obviously still find a way)

For me, Couturier has to go too. And if you want to get this ship turned around in a timely manner, you have to move at least some of guys like Farabee, Provorov, and Sanheim too. Get in high level picks or prospects that might turn in to guys that can be game changers instead of just "steady guys".

Say what you will about G, he was a higher caliber of player in 2014 (at the start of Hextall), than any of Couturier, Farabee, Provorov, Sanheim, and Hart are now. He had the potential to be a real center-piece, elite level guy, worthy of building around. Can you really say that about the others given what we've seen the last few years?

And if you don't have a center-piece, why waste the cap space and draft position on depth guys?

I do not disagree with your assessment.

 

[awaz]

A move I think would make a ton of sense would be Couturier to the Canes. If the Flyers eat 50% of this year, they can fit him in pretty easily. Next year his salary balloons up to 7.75, but that should still be a relatively team friendly deal. Aho/Couturier for 15M would be a hell of a 1-2 punch for a while. And Carolina doesn't really have a perfect 2C situation since Kotkaniemi isn't really working out, Staal is getting old, Trocheck is more of a 3C type guy. Necas could maybe be a good 2C, but do you take that risk given where the Canes currently sit? Shit, Necas could be a key cog in the return for Couturier. Necas and a 2023 1st? Gives the Flyers a young, cost controlled guy, that could pan into a key piece of a future. Kind of like draft pick that led to Couturier was in the return on Carter.

IMO, the fit there, or somewhere similar, could be amazing. Couturier is an amazing deadline add at 2.15M (flyers retaining half) and signed long term at a pretty reasonable deal even if you're using him as a 2C. If someone feels like they're ready to push their chips in, what a swing that would be. And the amount of teams that could afford him this year? The Flyers would be the bell of the ball. Lots of teams would make a move like that for today and worry about their future afterwards.

But I give a deal like that a 1% chance of happening. Because NHL GM's are the least creative individuals on the planet.

 

[awaz]

Honestly the more I think about it the more I love that move for the Canes. This year in particular. They're already one of, if not the, best goal prevention and play driving teams. Add Couturier to that? They'll have a Staal line and a Couturier line to shut down top lines in the playoffs. Go against the Bergeron/Crosby/Malkin/Matthews/OV lines in the playoffs, plus MacKinnon or Eichel in the final if they get there. Aho/Svechnikov free to play whoever they want.

The Canes would be absolutely stacked.

 

[purdue81]

Honestly the more I think about it the more I love that move for the Canes. This year in particular. They're already one of, if not the, best goal prevention and play driving teams. Add Couturier to that? They'll have a Staal line and a Couturier line to shut down top lines in the playoffs. Go against the Bergeron/Crosby/Malkin/Matthews/OV lines in the playoffs, plus MacKinnon or Eichel in the final if they get there. Aho/Svechnikov free to play whoever they want.

The Canes would be absolutely stacked.

And what are the Canes paying you for this consulting work?

 

[purdue81]

I'm sorry................ are you saying what we have been watching IS hockey ?

Make it 12.

 

[chy1127]

Make it 12.

At least Yandle tied the ironman record!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!