2024 draft prospect thread

[duke1861]

i posted what i saw. Yes EB has sucked im not denying that. I wanted him to get his guys to run his offense. We dont know if he wanted Wylie, Gates, and Stromberg. Was this RR or EB? the report on sportscenter would say it was EB;s idea to get these guys.

You could be right about Gruden. I can't confirm or deny what he said is true or not. Its interesting he brought it up years later. Right Synder and Allen were bad . i do know this.

Coordinators are not talent evaluators...nor are head coach. Rivera is the latest in a long line of coaches who thought they could be GMs. Rivera admitted last week that at times, " he didn't know what was going on".
I encourage you to read that article as it will prove that coaches should not have GM duties period...end of discussion.

I didn't want EB to have any GM duties because he isn't a scout nor is he a talent evaluator. That is where you and I have always differs, at least since Rivera.
If it was EBs idea, then it just further proves my point. I didn't want EB to get his guys.
EB was never a GM here Dean, Rivera and mayhew were. You still won't let it go will you.

What has gruden said that is being dispute. I said I agree with most of what he said but I also said to exercise caution. He was fired by this organization and now wants to let the world know about it. It's obvious.

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[deanpet21]

Coordinators are not talent evaluators...nor are head coach. Rivera is the latest in a long line of coaches who thought they could be GMs. Rivera admitted last week that at times, " he didn't know what was going on".
I encourage you to read that article as it will prove that coaches should not have GM duties period...end of discussion.

I didn't want EB to have any GM duties because he isn't a scout nor is he a talent evaluator. That is where you and I have always differs, at least since Rivera.
If it was EBs idea, then it just further proves my point. I didn't want EB to get his guys.
EB was never a GM here Dean, Rivera and mayhew were. You still won't let it go will you.

What has gruden said that is being dispute. I said I agree with most of what he said but I also said to exercise caution. He was fired by this organization and now wants to let the world know about it. It's obvious.

right we dont know what Gruden said if is true or false. I read the article he didnt know what was going on. he was fired and i agreed with the firing. no argument. I do disagree with you that the guy who is calling the plays for the offense should have the guys he wants b.c he has to run his offense the way he wants. If we hire Johnson, he knows what players he needs to be successful in his offense. that is why he is being brought here to run his successful offense from Detroit. If we do bring him here and handcuff the guy and he can't do what he did in Detroit then i thing that is a problem. you disagree with this and that is fine.

 

[skinsdad62]

they could of worked out the trade compensation. Are the Bears stupid to trade for Sweat?

Dean. The bears didn’t give up a number 2 unless they had assurances he would sign an extension Sweat did . KC on the other hand was on a tag and thus was only on a one year deal .

Sweat wasn’t on a tag , however if they gave up a 2nd round pick without assurances he would sign an. Extension the. They were stupid .

Same with the 49ers giving up a 3rd for a. 1/2 year rental now their situation is different because the niners are saying the 3rd was good to get a Super Bowl appearance .

so lets recap KC was untradeable because he was on the tag preventing him from signing an extension right away opening the possibility of him being a one year rental .

The fact was he didn’t get traded , no deal was even close to fruition, not one ! Why ? See above

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[deanpet21]

Dean. The bears didn’t give up a number 2 unless they had assurances he would sign an extension Sweat did . KC on the other hand was on a tag and thus was only on a one year deal .

Sweat wasn’t on a tag , however if they gave up a 2nd round pick without assurances he would sign an. Extension the. They were stupid .

Same with the 49ers giving up a 3rd for a. 1/2 year rental now their situation is different because the niners are saying the 3rd was good to get a Super Bowl appearance .

so lets recap KC was untradeable because he was on the tag preventing him from signing an extension right away opening the possibility of him being a one year rental .

The fact was he didn’t get traded , no deal was even close to fruition, not one ! Why ? See above

you dont know that Sweat gave assurances to the Bears that he would sign long term there. He could of not resigned there and tested the FA market or got tagged. The Bears gave up the 2nd so they owned his rights and they could tag him so he cant hit FA.

i know KC didnt get traded. No shit. He was tradable after the first tag our FO and Synder couldnt see that. We got screwed.

 

[j_y19]

they could of worked out the trade compensation. Are the Bears stupid to trade for Sweat?

The bears gave up a 2nd. That is a lot different than 2 1sts. ALOT! Not the same situation…..

 

[duke1861]

right we dont know what Gruden said if is true or false. I read the article he didnt know what was going on. he was fired and i agreed with the firing. no argument. I do disagree with you that the guy who is calling the plays for the offense should have the guys he wants b.c he has to run his offense the way he wants. If we hire Johnson, he knows what players he needs to be successful in his offense. that is why he is being brought here to run his successful offense from Detroit. If we do bring him here and handcuff the guy and he can't do what he did in Detroit then i thing that is a problem. you disagree with this and that is fine.

Define bring in his guys?

Are you talking about Peters being an order taker on draft night and during free agency?

If Macdonald is hired should he bring in his defensive guys?

What happens if Peters disagrees with Johnson or the coach, who wins out?

Sounds like a coach centric model to me. Did Rivera not teach you anything? You even implied that EB might have hand picked his guys. How did that work out?

The head coach can make suggestions and provide input....they hopefully do. But no, you are wrong...they should not have full access and get the guys they want. Coaches aren't talent evaluators. You still haven't figured that out yet have you?

Should peters run down to the sideline and tell Johnson what plays to run? Peters built the team and would surely know how to use them right?

I don't think you are on board with peters at all and have said that.

 

[deanpet21]

Define bring in his guys?

Are you talking about Peters being an order taker on draft night and during free agency?

If Macdonald is hired should he bring in his defensive guys?

What happens if Peters disagrees with Johnson or the coach, who wins out?

Sounds like a coach centric model to me. Did Rivera not teach you anything? You even implied that EB might have hand picked his guys. How did that work out?

The head coach can make suggestions and provide input....they hopefully do. But no, you are wrong...they should not have full access and get the guys they want. Coaches aren't talent evaluators. You still haven't figured that out yet have you?

Should peters run down to the sideline and tell Johnson what plays to run? Peters built the team and would surely know how to use them right?

I don't think you are on board with peters at all and have said that.

It depends on the situation. I am on board with Peters as a talent evaluator. He should present Johnson who will be the best fit for Johnson's system and the new defensive coordinators system. He should pick guys based on his findings. RR couldn't do this hopefully Peters can. we discussed this before. At #2 if Peters and Johnson both feel they want a QB and Peters has the same draft grade on Maye and Daniels. Then Johnson input should be weighed heavily in this situation. Johnson should be in the room not playing golf. last time with Casserly and Norv it was the same situation and the HC won out with Shuler. Is Casserly a bad GM b/c he took the guy that his new HC wanted? No. Is it coach centric like you always say that the GM Casserly listened to his new HC on a QB?

Sure, it didn't work out but I dont blame a GM for listening to his new HC that will call the plays for the offense this year. If you dont listen to him then you start off with conflict from day one at the most important position on the team. It seems like you dont want the coach's to be involved at all. Its all on Peters he picks the guys and he does whatever he wants.

 

[duke1861]

It depends on the situation. I am on board with Peters as a talent evaluator. He should present Johnson who will be the best fit for Johnson's system and the new defensive coordinators system. He should pick guys based on his findings. RR couldn't do this hopefully Peters can. we discussed this before. At #2 if Peters and Johnson both feel they want a QB and Peters has the same draft grade on Maye and Daniels. Then Johnson input should be weighed heavily in this situation. Johnson should be in the room not playing golf. last time with Casserly and Norv it was the same situation and the HC won out with Shuler. Is Casserly a bad GM b/c he took the guy that his new HC wanted? No. Is it coach centric like you always say that the GM Casserly listened to his new HC on a QB?

Sure, it didn't work out but I dont blame a GM for listening to his new HC that will call the plays for the offense this year. If you dont listen to him then you start off with conflict from day one at the most important position on the team. It seems like you dont want the coach's to be involved at all. Its all on Peters he picks the guys and he does whatever he wants.

How do you gather that I don't want coaches involved? I clearly stated the opposite in post 1,628.

The HC should provide input, guidance, and be in the draft room. You previously said Johnson should make the pick and are now backtracking.

But you said Johnson should make the #2 pick and now you said he should be able to bring in his guys. Johnson can't bring the Detroit offense here so you are implying he knows more than peters. That is wrong.
You supported the coach centric method and support it still. You aren't on board with peters. My opinion.

Again, yes, casserly made a HUGE mistake and he has publically said that. You prove my point when you bring up the scenerio. Turner thought Shuler would work in his system. He could not have been more wrong. Shuler was not an nfl talent.

Coaches and talent evaluation don't work Dean.

You of all people should know that. You argued with me about Rivera and were completely wrong. How did I know he was a mistake after the hire and you didn't? I told you it was a mistake 4 years ago and you didn't listen.

Peters is much more than a talent evaluator...he is the leader of the front office and architect of the roster. You dont understand that.
He builds the roster.
The HC coaches that roster.

There must be a separation of duties. HC who mingle in roster affairs bring bad results.

The HC is not a scout
The HC is not a cap expert
The HC is not a talent evaluator

You wanted Rivera to be those things and I told you he wasn't. Now you want our new HC to have GM duties.

 

[skinsdad62]

you dont know that Sweat gave assurances to the Bears that he would sign long term there. He could of not resigned there and tested the FA market or got tagged. The Bears gave up the 2nd so they owned his rights and they could tag him so he cant hit FA.

i know KC didnt get traded. No shit. He was tradable after the first tag our FO and Synder couldnt see that. We got screwed.

Reading is fundamental dean , I said the bears would have been stupid to give up a 2nd for sweat as a possible 1/2 rental .
I am pretty damn sure in this age of agents that the bears got assurances he would sign an extension.
How do I know this ? Because extensions don’t pop out of thin air . He signed way to quickly not to have had early discussions about that BEFORE the trade .

Now assuming they are still living in the Stone Age dean, if they traded a top 40 fucking pick for a half year rental on a team that had No fucking hope of making the playoffs let alone Super Bowl then they were FUCKING stupid

They would be stupid yesterday , they would be stupid today and they would be stupid 1000yrs from now

 

[gkekoa]

i posted what i saw. Yes EB has sucked im not denying that. I wanted him to get his guys to run his offense. We dont know if he wanted Wylie, Gates, and Stromberg. Was this RR or EB? the report on sportscenter would say it was EB;s idea to get these guys.

You could be right about Gruden. I can't confirm or deny what he said is true or not. Its interesting he brought it up years later. Right Synder and Allen were bad . i do know this.

Were those EB’s choices or were those his choices based on available funds by RR? Hey EB…would you like this POS for 5 mil or this POS for 5.5 mil? Or, would you like to keep the POS’ we already have…BTW, the POS Charles will be a great LG (RR quote).

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[skinsdad62]

 

[deanpet21]

How do you gather that I don't want coaches involved? I clearly stated the opposite in post 1,628.

The HC should provide input, guidance, and be in the draft room. You previously said Johnson should make the pick and are now backtracking.

But you said Johnson should make the #2 pick and now you said he should be able to bring in his guys. Johnson can't bring the Detroit offense here so you are implying he knows more than peters. That is wrong.
You supported the coach centric method and support it still. You aren't on board with peters. My opinion.

Again, yes, casserly made a HUGE mistake and he has publically said that. You prove my point when you bring up the scenerio. Turner thought Shuler would work in his system. He could not have been more wrong. Shuler was not an nfl talent.

Coaches and talent evaluation don't work Dean.

You of all people should know that. You argued with me about Rivera and were completely wrong. How did I know he was a mistake after the hire and you didn't? I told you it was a mistake 4 years ago and you didn't listen.

Peters is much more than a talent evaluator...he is the leader of the front office and architect of the roster. You dont understand that.
He builds the roster.
The HC coaches that roster.

There must be a separation of duties. HC who mingle in roster affairs bring bad results.

The HC is not a scout
The HC is not a cap expert
The HC is not a talent evaluator

You wanted Rivera to be those things and I told you he wasn't. Now you want our new HC to have GM duties.

again situation. you are not understanding that. Of course, Peters is going to control trades, contracts, and the draft board. Just b/c johson makes one pick of Qb the team is now coach centric. When your HC is going to call plays for the offense its a different situation vs RR. Apples and oranges but of course you always bring it up.

Whos backtracking? If Johsnon is going to bang the table for Maye and he has the same draft grade as Daniels. Johnson should get maye. My opinion. I ahve no way of proving this but of course you are going to want proof if this happened.

 

[deanpet21]

Reading is fundamental dean , I said the bears would have been stupid to give up a 2nd for sweat as a possible 1/2 rental .
I am pretty damn sure in this age of agents that the bears got assurances he would sign an extension.
How do I know this ? Because extensions don’t pop out of thin air . He signed way to quickly not to have had early discussions about that BEFORE the trade .

Now assuming they are still living in the Stone Age dean, if they traded a top 40 fucking pick for a half year rental on a team that had No fucking hope of making the playoffs let alone Super Bowl then they were FUCKING stupid

They would be stupid yesterday , they would be stupid today and they would be stupid 1000yrs from now

you are making an assumption that he would of singes. Tusil took a while to sign his long term deal. The Bears still took the risk. Sweat could of bet on himself and played on the one year deal.

 

[deanpet21]

Were those EB’s choices or were those his choices based on available funds by RR? Hey EB…would you like this POS for 5 mil or this POS for 5.5 mil? Or, would you like to keep the POS’ we already have…BTW, the POS Charles will be a great LG (RR quote).

I cant answer what went on behind closed doors. Would Wylie be singed as a FA if Eb wasnt here? I am going to say no.

 

[duke1861]

again situation. you are not understanding that. Of course, Peters is going to control trades, contracts, and the draft board. Just b/c johson makes one pick of Qb the team is now coach centric. When your HC is going to call plays for the offense its a different situation vs RR. Apples and oranges but of course you always bring it up.

Whos backtracking? If Johsnon is going to bang the table for Maye and he has the same draft grade as Daniels. Johnson should get maye. My opinion. I ahve no way of proving this but of course you are going to want proof if this happened.

I dont get the situation with having the same draft grade on 2 players.
Do you conceivably see a universe where peters has the exact same draft grade for maye and daniels? I don't know if it's possible quite frankly and is another hypothetical exercise you want to go through.

Should Macdonald get to pick at #2 as.well? He is going to want a MLB who can quarterback a defense. Macdonald is going to be calling defensive schemes and should pick his LB to do that right?

I will pull the post but you said Johnson will make the #2 pick.

You are backtracking again from post 1,623. You said johnson should get "his" guys. You arent talking about a single pick now, you are talking about him getting a fleet of players he wants.

Johnson cannot bring over 11 players from Detroit so he would have to use free agency and the draft to get "his" guys here. That is a coach centric model dean. Johnson giving peters a wish list would be a disaster.
Funny how casserly made a huge error but you want Johnson to make the same type of decision

That's not how it works...or should work.
You supported the coach centric model with Rivera but not now right?

 

[countryroads316]