2024 draft prospect thread

[Sportster 72]

Two of you argue just to argue.

 

[duke1861]

I have been advised to engage in productive debates.

I am against the coach centric method and stating the case against it.

Our friend Dean wants the head coach to make draft picks and get his guys in free agency.

I trust peters and the traditional front office model.
Dean trusts the coach...whoever that will be.

It's a key and fundamental difference.

Dean is free to express his beliefs...and I hope he does.

After the reign of terror we just went through, I would hope we would have come to the conclusion that we need a GM and empower them to build the roster. I was wrong.

 

[Sportster 72]

I have read deans posts, I am not fully on board with what you are claiming he says.

All that said kbso brought up a few people talkiing about Cousins being signed as a FA.

You two have relitigated what happened 6 years ago. Today I see you want to Shuler. That was 30 years ago. WTF does that have to do with 2024?

In the end you two have to do you I guess.

Just to say again what Peters said knowing he is the GM and lead personnel guy, he will talk to the coach to see what kind of players he wants and draft accordingly. JMO but there is no reason Peters can't go to the new HC and ask his input and together work it out. I don't think Peters job is to say I am drafting this guy whether you like it or not. That message has been made clear by Josh Harris.

 

[countryroads316]

Let's just go this route and sign a WR in Free Agency

 

[deanpet21]

I dont get the situation with having the same draft grade on 2 players.
Do you conceivably see a universe where peters has the exact same draft grade for maye and daniels? I don't know if it's possible quite frankly and is another hypothetical exercise you want to go through.

Should Macdonald get to pick at #2 as.well? He is going to want a MLB who can quarterback a defense. Macdonald is going to be calling defensive schemes and should pick his LB to do that right?

I will pull the post but you said Johnson will make the #2 pick.

You are backtracking again from post 1,623. You said johnson should get "his" guys. You arent talking about a single pick now, you are talking about him getting a fleet of players he wants.

Johnson cannot bring over 11 players from Detroit so he would have to use free agency and the draft to get "his" guys here. That is a coach centric model dean. Johnson giving peters a wish list would be a disaster.
Funny how casserly made a huge error but you want Johnson to make the same type of decision

That's not how it works...or should work.
You supported the coach centric model with Rivera but not now right?

Mcdonald example is ridicouls. Very possible Maye and Daniels could have the same draft grades. Dont have to pull it i said it Mutiple times. If QB is the pick at #2 and Johnson is the HC/play caller he should get his guy within reason. If Johnson wants Bo Nix at #2 then Peters would step in and say the draft grade doenst match #2 overall. Thats where the GM takes over. That is not coach centric. What I meant by his guys is the guy he wants to build his offense where its FA, trades, or drafts. Peters makes the picks in the drafts. If Johnson wants to be run based offense and Peters wants a pass based offense then there is a huge problem. Both Peters and Johnson have to be on the same page.

We will never know what will happens at #2 b/c we are not in the war rooms. Im just hoping everyone is on the same page and there are no big arguments come draft time.

 

[deanpet21]

I have read deans posts, I am not fully on board with what you are claiming he says.

All that said kbso brought up a few people talkiing about Cousins being signed as a FA.

You two have relitigated what happened 6 years ago. Today I see you want to Shuler. That was 30 years ago. WTF does that have to do with 2024?

In the end you two have to do you I guess.

Just to say again what Peters said knowing he is the GM and lead personnel guy, he will talk to the coach to see what kind of players he wants and draft accordingly. JMO but there is no reason Peters can't go to the new HC and ask his input and together work it out. I don't think Peters job is to say I am drafting this guy whether you like it or not. That message has been made clear by Josh Harris.

Thanks, I brought up Shuler b/c Casserly went to his HC to make the QB pick. Duke doenst agree with this at all.

 

[duke1861]

Thanks, I brought up Shuler b/c Casserly went to his HC to make the QB pick. Duke doenst agree with this at all.

It's a poor example for the 100th time and proves the point that a coach should not be the final authority and make the call. A GM should stuck to their guns. It doesnt make any sense.

Well, you are correct, call it Rivera, Turner, wentz, or EB, I will probably disagree with you for good reason.

 

[kbso83432]

Logan Paulsen's thoughts on Maye and Daniels 34:00 mark.

 

[deanpet21]

It's a poor example for the 100th time and proves the point that a coach should not be the final authority and make the call. A GM should stuck to their guns. It doesnt make any sense.

Well, you are correct, call it Rivera, Turner, wentz, or EB, I will probably disagree with you for good reason.

not a poor example if the pick at #2 is QB and there is conflict on who to take.. We want unity between coach and GM. Like sportster said its not Peters way or the highway.

 

[duke1861]

Mcdonald example is ridicouls. Very possible Maye and Daniels could have the same draft grades. Dont have to pull it i said it Mutiple times. If QB is the pick at #2 and Johnson is the HC/play caller he should get his guy within reason. If Johnson wants Bo Nix at #2 then Peters would step in and say the draft grade doenst match #2 overall. Thats where the GM takes over. That is not coach centric. What I meant by his guys is the guy he wants to build his offense where its FA, trades, or drafts. Peters makes the picks in the drafts. If Johnson wants to be run based offense and Peters wants a pass based offense then there is a huge problem. Both Peters and Johnson have to be on the same page.

We will never know what will happens at #2 b/c we are not in the war rooms. Im just hoping everyone is on the same page and there are no big arguments come draft time.

So an offensive minded head coach should have the ear of the GM more than a defensive minded coach?
Johnson should be able to get his guys but he shouldn't have the same authority of an offensive minded coach? Makes total sense...smh

Again, you are changing what you have said or misremembered.
You said if we hire Johnson, he "should make the pick and it would be maye". Those are your words, not mine.

Now you are saying that it'd a hypothetical situation where they must have the exact same draft grade and rating and peters will defer to Johnson. You are all over the place.

 

[duke1861]

not a poor example if the pick at #2 is QB and there is conflict on who to take.. We want unity between coach and GM. Like sportster said its not Peters way or the highway.

And who said that...nobody.

Casserly should have stuck to his gut and turner should have listened to his GM.
They should have discussed the matter at length, viewed tape, talked to scouts, etc. It was a mistake per casserly himself.

I am sure even turner would admit he made a mistake and would have handled it differently.

You are basically saying the choice was wrong but the process was correct...lol

 

[deanpet21]

So an offensive minded head coach should have the ear of the GM more than a defensive minded coach?
Johnson should be able to get his guys but he shouldn't have the same authority of an offensive minded coach? Makes total sense...smh

Again, you are changing what you have said or misremembered.
You said if we hire Johnson, he "should make the pick and it would be maye". Those are your words, not mine.

Now you are saying that it'd a hypothetical situation where they must have the exact same draft grade and rating and peters will defer to Johnson. You are all over the place.

im not. you just dont agree that in this example the HC who calls plays should have his QB if the draft grade is the same. You want the GM to make the call and upset his new HC that he jsut hired. smh

 

[duke1861]

I have read deans posts, I am not fully on board with what you are claiming he says.

All that said kbso brought up a few people talkiing about Cousins being signed as a FA.

You two have relitigated what happened 6 years ago. Today I see you want to Shuler. That was 30 years ago. WTF does that have to do with 2024?

In the end you two have to do you I guess.

Just to say again what Peters said knowing he is the GM and lead personnel guy, he will talk to the coach to see what kind of players he wants and draft accordingly. JMO but there is no reason Peters can't go to the new HC and ask his input and together work it out. I don't think Peters job is to say I am drafting this guy whether you like it or not. That message has been made clear by Josh Harris.

That is fine...you are welcome to your opinion.

In my defense, Dean sang the praises to me personally of rivera and the coach centric model until about 2 months ago...give or take. This lasted over 3 and a half years. When I pushed back, Dean told me to leave the board. Our moderator actually got involved because it was so absurd.

I am now told that he has done a 180 and against the coach centric model. Anyone is entitled to change or reconsider their position.

Then problem is he makes posts such as "Johnson will make the pick" and "Johnson should get his guys", but then backtracks or attempts to clarify. It's like trying to hit a moving target and impossible to have dialouge. The fact that he was arguing with 3 posters at the same time yesterday is evidence.

It is his opinion and to me, it appears based off his remarks, he prefers the coach centric model that he supported for 4 years. For the record, it is his opinion and he should continue to share it here.

Regarding the Shuler incident, I have stated several times it is a poor example and have suggested moving on. In deans mind it makes sense and he wants to bring it up daily. I am stepping away from it and he can argue with others on it.

Regarding peters, for the millionth time, he needs to lead group discussions on player acquisition both in the draft and free agency. He isn't an order taker and he is the tie breaker when there is conflict. He has been in the league 20 years and knows what he is doing. That is a fundamental difference between Dean and myself.

 

[deanpet21]

And who said that...nobody.

Casserly should have stuck to his gut and turner should have listened to his GM.
They should have discussed the matter at length, viewed tape, talked to scouts, etc. It was a mistake per casserly himself.

I am sure even turner would admit he made a mistake and would have handled it differently.

You are basically saying the choice was wrong but the process was correct...lol

you are saying it was coach centric b/c Turner got to pick Shuler. It was not coach centric b/c Casserly was the GM and made calls during the draft to get players all the time. The champ bailey trade. You are generalizing it. Casserly gave his new HC that will calls plays his guy. Its the same thing if we Hire Johnson who will also call plays.

 

[deanpet21]

That is fine...you are welcome to your opinion.

In my defense, Dean sang the praises to me personally of rivera and the coach centric model until about 2 months ago...give or take. This lasted over 3 and a half years. When I pushed back, Dean told me to leave the board. Our moderator actually got involved because it was so absurd.

I am now told that he has done a 180 and against the coach centric model. Anyone is entitled to change or reconsider their position.

Then problem is he makes posts such as "Johnson will make the pick" and "Johnson should get his guys", but then backtracks or attempts to clarify. It's like trying to hit a moving target and impossible to have dialouge. The fact that he was arguing with 3 posters at the same time yesterday is evidence.

It is his opinion and to me, it appears based off his remarks, he prefers the coach centric model that he supported for 4 years. For the record, it is his opinion and he should continue to share it here.

Regarding the Shuler incident, I have stated several times it is a poor example and have suggested moving on. In deans mind it makes sense and he wants to bring it up daily. I am stepping away from it and he can argue with others on it.

Regarding peters, for the millionth time, he needs to lead group discussions on player acquisition both in the draft and free agency. He isn't an order taker and he is the tie breaker when there is conflict. He has been in the league 20 years and knows what he is doing. That is a fundamental difference between Dean and myself.

not true at all.

 

[duke1861]

im not. you just dont agree that in this example the HC who calls plays should have his QB if the draft grade is the same. You want the GM to make the call and upset his new HC that he jsut hires. smh

Players are ranked and dont have the same draft grade Dean. I am tired of playing hypothetical games.
I do want the GM to make the final call...like other winning teams do.

 

[duke1861]

you are saying it was coach centric b/c Turner got to pick Shuler. It was not coach centric b/c Casserly was the GM and made calls during the draft to get players all the time. The champ bailey trade. You are generalizing it. Casserly gave his new HC that will calls plays his guy. Its the same thing if we Hire Johnson who will also call plays.

I didnt say casserly had a coach centric model. I said it was a mistake for casserly to bend to turner.
How did Shuler work out?
I rest my case.

 

[deanpet21]

Players are ranked and dont have the same draft grade Dean. I am tired of playing hypothetical games.
I do want the GM to make the final call...like other winning teams do.

fine that is your opinion. Yes players can have the same draft rank. Or a split hair difference. Hopefully Johnson and Peters will be on the same page then Casserly and Turner was not.

 

[duke1861]

not true at all.

What part isn't true?

Did you support rivera for over 3 and half years? You foolishly predicted 11 wins in 2022 and 9 games in 2023.

Did you tell me to leave the board?

Did you not say Johnson should make the pick and get his guys and then go back on those.comments?

Were you not arguing with 3 posters last night?

 

[deanpet21]

I didnt say casserly had a coach centric model. I said it was a mistake for casserly to bend to turner.
How did Shuler work out?
I rest my case.

Dilfer would have gotten destroyed here too. I disagree he gave his new HC his guy. It wasnt my way or the highway management. Just like when the 49ers made the huge trade for.Lance. Kyle was on board and was a big part of that trade deal happening.