2023 HOF Ballot

[Cedrique]

Boone and Sundberg are good comparisons, but not perfect. While Molina “had no bat”, the bat he didn’t have was still better than both of them. He (suspiciously) had a 3-year window where his bat was almost elite. Boone and Sundbeg never had that window.

Also, longevity in the 70s/80s =/= longevity in the 00s/10s. Players in the 70s/80s couldn’t retire early and be financially safe. Players today have no “need” to play more than 10 years or so. Playing longer than that indicates a passion for the act of playing that wasn’t possible yesteryear.

That seems about right. Molina is a little Brooks Robinsonesque. Great defender who had a couple really good offensive years which made him an MVP candidate. But his defensive ability that kept him playing into his late 30's also dragged down his averages some.

 

[nynasty]

Evans should probably be in. Especially under today’s standard. The argument with Rice was always that he was the “most feared hitter in the league” for a few years. Not sure if that’s even true.

It's not.

In his MVP season (which should have been Guidry) he wasn't even the Red Sox player most walked intentionally

 

[navamind]

Rolen Into Cooperstown: BBWAA Voters Avoid Shutout

Amid much suspense leading up to the announcement, the great two-way third baseman crossed the 75% threshold.

blogs.fangraphs.com

 

[Cedrique]

Rolen Into Cooperstown: BBWAA Voters Avoid Shutout

Amid much suspense leading up to the announcement, the great two-way third baseman crossed the 75% threshold.

blogs.fangraphs.com

From that link "Only one candidate lost support relative to 2022, namely Omar Vizquel. In the wake of allegations of both domestic violence against his wife and sexual harassment of a batboy while managing in the minors, "

Sexual harassment of a batboy?

 

[Pure Steel]

From that link "Only one candidate lost support relative to 2022, namely Omar Vizquel. In the wake of allegations of both domestic violence against his wife and sexual harassment of a batboy while managing in the minors, "

Sexual harassment of a batboy?

He was a switch hitter......too soon?

 

[msgkings322]

He was a switch hitter......too soon?

He said he liked the boy's bat.

 

[chappee11]

From that link "Only one candidate lost support relative to 2022, namely Omar Vizquel. In the wake of allegations of both domestic violence against his wife and sexual harassment of a batboy while managing in the minors, "

Sexual harassment of a batboy?

WTF?

 

[chappee11]

It's not.

In his MVP season (which should have been Guidry) he wasn't even the Red Sox player most walked intentionally

Interesting. Rice DID lead the league in just about every category that year. Guidry’s numbers are off the charts. I can see why either guy could have won. Rice had 6 top-5 MVP finishes. That’s pretty legit. You don’t think he’s worthy?

 

[navamind]

Interesting. Rice DID lead the league in just about every category that year. Guidry’s numbers are off the charts. I can see why either guy could have won. Rice had 6 top-5 MVP finishes. That’s pretty legit. You don’t think he’s worthy?

Rice's top 5 seasons (77-79, 83, 86) are pretty strong years, but he only finished in the top 10 in WAR in four of those years (two top 5). Other than those five years, he never finished with more than 3 WAR (and that includes his '75 season where he finished 3rd in the AL MVP voting). Five top 10 finishes in OPS+, but only two top 5 (led in 1978).

One thing that really hurts his WAR isn't his defense (which rates at +24 runs), but the sheer amount of double plays he hit into. His GIDPs cost his teams -42 runs. Not sure if that's the worst of all-time, but I'd imagine it's up there. He led the AL in GIDP four times and he's the only player to ever hit into 35+ (twice).

 

[navamind]

Ernie Banks played more games at 1st base......

Banks the 1B was a pretty meh player. He had 12.7 WAR in his final 10 seasons away from SS... he had 55.0 WAR in his first 9 seasons.

As for Mauer, his best years came when he was (mostly) catching. Mauer's last 5 seasons (where he switched to 1B) were much worse than as a catcher, and he had a 141 OPS+ in his last two seasons behind the plate combined. Like Banks, a huge proportion of his career value was at his former position.

 

[navamind]

Next year will be Sheffield's final year on the ballot. He's made some leeway going from just 13.6% in 2019 to 55% this year, but it's hard to see him (or anyone, really) getting another 20% to make it in just one year. The lack of progress in the 2021-2022 ballots probably killed his BBWAA hopes.

 

[Mebert]

I hate that personal issues impact votes. BBWA has turned itself into a joke.

 

[chappee11]

Next year will be Sheffield's final year on the ballot. He's made some leeway going from just 13.6% in 2019 to 55% this year, but it's hard to see him (or anyone, really) getting another 20% to make it in just one year. The lack of progress in the 2021-2022 ballots probably killed his BBWAA hopes.

STRIKE 1: During a workout with Barry Bonds in 2001, a cream was applied to Sheffield's knee by a trainer to help heal ripped stitches from a knee surgery. Sheffield states in his book, Inside Power, that he had no knowledge of the cream containing steroids, and had no reason to assume so at the time.

STRIKE 2: On December 13, 2007, Sheffield was named in the Mitchell Report as one of the players who had obtained and used steroids.

STRIKE 3: In their book Game of Shadows, reporters Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams allege that Sheffield worked with and received steroids such as testosterone and human growth hormone from his and Barry Bonds's personal trainer Greg Anderson. The book also details steroid calendars found in possession of Anderson outlining numerous steroid cycles Sheffield was to have undertaken after the 2001 season.

Sheffield was one of the most terrifying hitters I can remember, and he had a HOF-worthy career. But as long as the Bonds, Sosa, Manny & Palmeiro types have no chance, I’m surprised to see Sheffield get as much support as he has.

 

[fightinfunbags]

What are people’s thoughts on Billy Wagner? Last year he was at 50%ish and this year he came in the mid 60%ish. He has 2 years left. I’m thinking he is getting in. I haven’t done a deep dive on his numbers, but, for me, I don’t think he should be in.

 

[navamind]

What are people’s thoughts on Billy Wagner? Last year he was at 50%ish and this year he came in the mid 60%ish. He has 2 years left. I’m thinking he is getting in. I haven’t done a deep dive on his numbers, but, for me, I don’t think he should be in.

He's made significant progress. He's shot up from 16.7% four years ago to 68.1%. He could make it next year.

My only issue with Wagner is his relatively low innings, but he was one of the most dominant relievers (I'd say he was more dominant than Hoffman). I'm fine with him getting in.

 

[navamind]

I hate that personal issues impact votes. BBWA has turned itself into a joke.

It's always been a joke. Not just in regards to HOF voting either.

 

[fightinfunbags]

He's made significant progress. He's shot up from 16.7% four years ago to 68.1%. He could make it next year.

My only issue with Wagner is his relatively low innings, but he was one of the most dominant relievers (I'd say he was more dominant than Hoffman). I'm fine with him getting in.

Closer has become a tough player to project for the Hall. So much of decision making comes from comparisons to players from by gone eras. Relatively speaking, the role itself is still fairly new.

 

[nynasty]

Interesting. Rice DID lead the league in just about every category that year. Guidry’s numbers are off the charts. I can see why either guy could have won. Rice had 6 top-5 MVP finishes. That’s pretty legit. You don’t think he’s worthy?

My beef has always been if Rice's '78 beats Gid's otherwordly pitching season, then how does Mattingly's 1986 not beat Clemens?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What are people’s thoughts on Billy Wagner? Last year he was at 50%ish and this year he came in the mid 60%ish. He has 2 years left. I’m thinking he is getting in. I haven’t done a deep dive on his numbers, but, for me, I don’t think he should be in.

when i make my lists(not that they matter) i have Wagner in...

one of the best closers of all time... and he was a lefty... arguably the best lefty reliever of all time...

 

[chappee11]

My beef has always been if Rice's '78 beats Gid's otherwordly pitching season, then how does Mattingly's 1986 not beat Clemens?

I think expecting any kind of consistency from the voters might be your first mistake.