2023 Free agency and trade thread

[fastforward]

There is flat out so many RB's in this league right now that you can just roster 3 and if you have issues, you can probably find a guy on a street if you need a multi week solution.

But the teams, unlike the Dolphins, that are using the draft and develop approach to RB's (which IMO is the much better way to go), you basically are protecting your rookies in that 4th slot.

I dont know how more teams just arent paying attention to how to properly fill the RB position. Once every 4 drafts you need to use a 2nd/3rd on a guy. That guy should be your stud starter. And then in 2 of the 3 other drafts, you take guys in the 4th to 5th rounds for your backups. You dont even need to use your own picks to get there. Just trade down a little bit in the 1st or 2nd round every year and you can fill your backup RB spots up with "free" draft picks.

I like the 3 RBs the Dolphins signed early as FAs. They should be the only 3 on the active roster. I think they overpaid but that happens in free agency. What you've outlined is a solid strategy but reality doesn't always comply with strategy. Needs and availability have to be addressed and the Dolphins have done that - to excess.

 

[Clayton]

Let's lump Baker into a historical tier. He currently is looking like a Josh Freeman, Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington tier of QB. Guys who when they are under their rookie deals you are OK with. But the moment they get past the rookie deals, they are going to struggle to find starting gigs and hold them simply because they arent good enough to be considered a top half QB and they arent young enough and there is enough tape on them to know they likely are never going to develop into that top half of the league QB.

When I was watching him last year I did compare him to Matt Schaub. I think I might be slightly higher on him than you but its not exactly an endorsement, either. Guys like Jason Campbell were closer to Drew Lock imo.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Baker is what he is. No one in their right mind is thinking he has a really good shot of being top 10 QB in any of the upcoming 3-4 years of football.
Let's lump Baker into a historical tier. He currently is looking like a Josh Freeman, Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington tier of QB. Guys who when they are under their rookie deals you are OK with. But the moment they get past the rookie deals, they are going to struggle to find starting gigs and hold them simply because they arearent good enough to be considered a top half QB and they arent young enough and there is enough tape on them to know they likely never going to develop into that top half of the league QB

Well said.

 

[Manster7588]

I don't think it's just about Baker - I think there are multiple factors involved for why teams haven't traded for him. Some of it, for sure, is questioning where he would fit in, but some of it is out of his control (contract, trade demands by Browns, etc...).

I agree. I think the Browns want too much in return for a guy, they have basically already thrown out with the bath water.

I don't think Baker has any say on a trade or not as he doesn't have a no trade clause, and I'd imagine he wouldn't balk at any trade either, as I'm 99.99999999% sure he wants out of Cleveland.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think the Browns want too much in return for a guy, they have basically already thrown out with the bath water.

You nailed it

 

[Manster7588]

You nailed it

Now if we can just get @DJ to understand we could put this puppy to bed.

 

[Shanemansj13]

There is flat out so many RB's in this league right now that you can just roster 3 and if you have issues, you can probably find a guy on a street if you need a multi week solution.

But the teams, unlike the Dolphins, that are using the draft and develop approach to RB's (which IMO is the much better way to go), you basically are protecting your rookies in that 4th slot.

I dont know how more teams just arent paying attention to how to properly fill the RB position. Once every 4 drafts you need to use a 2nd/3rd on a guy. That guy should be your stud starter. And then in 2 of the 3 other drafts, you take guys in the 4th to 5th rounds for your backups. You dont even need to use your own picks to get there. Just trade down a little bit in the 1st or 2nd round every year and you can fill your backup RB spots up with "free" draft picks.

Yep, the draft and developing RB's is definitely the way to go. The Browns drafted Chubb, paid him, but only bc he is a top 5 RB caliber. They got Hunt coming off his suspension on a once-in-a-lifetime kind of deal for his talent. Hunt and Johnson leave next year and they drafted Ford in 5th this year. The Vikings did the same. Draft Cook-top 5 potential, sign him to a deal. Draft Mattison and now drafting Chandler...who btw is under-the-radar. That was a good pick.
Drafting and developing is the way to go at the RB position then if you find a guy that has top 5-10 talent you pay him for one more contract. After that, you have the guy you drafted right behind to replace him. Seems simple but if you don't find your guy then you get into a Dolphins situation where you get very desperate and go sign 3 FA RB's.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree. I think the Browns want too much in return for a guy, they have basically already thrown out with the bath water.

Well yeah of course. I don't blame them, they owe him $18M and they don't want to pay it. If push comes to shove they will have to move him and lower their demands.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Well yeah of course. I don't blame them, they owe him $18M and they don't want to pay it. If push comes to shove they will have to move him and lower their demands.

Well you have to blame them.
They are the ones that agreed to the 5th year option.
They are the ones that went after a top 5 QB afterwards. (atleast used to be)
They are the only ones you can blame. The Browns picked, chose & created every part of this scenario.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Well you have to blame them.
They are the ones that agreed to the 5th year option.
They are the ones that went after a top 5 QB afterwards. (atleast used to be)
They are the only ones you can blame. The Browns picked, chose & created every part of this scenario.

Why would they blame them for have a backup plan for their 1a plan? LOL

You still just can't comprehend the situation.

They signed Baker to a 5th option before Watson became available.
Once he did become available, they told Baker they would look at other options but they had no idea Watson would come to CLE, just exploring.
Watson signs with CLE and Baker wants to be traded.

So you are saying they are at fault for having a backup plan instead of having zero decent QB's on the roster? Damn LOL. If they don't sign Baker to the 5th year and lose out on Watson...then Baker walks bc he is likely still upset they went after Watson OR they don't go after Watson and stick with Baker so it's a lose-lose anyway.

The Browns actually came out with the best option bc they got their franchise QB but they have to live with possibly being stuck with Baker's contract or cutting him. All the other options are worse.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Now if we can just get @DJ to understand we could put this puppy to bed.

You guys don't understand that Cleveland will eat half his salary and get a 4th (maybe a 3rd) when a starting QB gets hurt in pre-season or very early in the reg season and the team doesn't want to tank (not all teams do) and have a lost season. They'll trade for Mayfield in hopes of still making the playoffs.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Why would they blame them for have a backup plan for their 1a plan? LOL

You still just can't comprehend the situation.

They signed Baker to a 5th option before Watson became available.
Once he did become available, they told Baker they would look at other options but they had no idea Watson would come to CLE, just exploring.
Watson signs with CLE and Baker wants to be traded.

So you are saying they are at fault for having a backup plan instead of having zero decent QB's on the roster? Damn LOL. If they don't sign Baker to the 5th year and lose out on Watson...then Baker walks bc he is likely still upset they went after Watson OR they don't go after Watson and stick with Baker so it's a lose-lose anyway.

The Browns actually came out with the best option bc they got their franchise QB but they have to live with possibly being stuck with Baker's contract or cutting him. All the other options are worse.

correct. They have to live with their decisions. That they created. Obviously this is what they think is best. But this is till their scenario that they created. They are to blame for this scenario.

Just like the Cards were to blame for getting rid of their 1st round pick QB the next year to pick a QB #1. Not ideal, but the move they had to make. but still this is on them.
Also I am sure they could have moved Baker if they wanted earlier on. They just thought they werent giving him away on the cheap. (also on them)
Also the front office went to the media to talk shit about Baker. Dont care if it was 100% true. You are not coming back from that. (also on them)
The entire scenario the Browns are in. Is dictated by the Browns. If they are not to blame? Who is?

 

[ducky]

You guys don't understand that Cleveland will eat half his salary and get a 4th (maybe a 3rd) when a starting QB gets hurt in pre-season or very early in the reg season and the team doesn't want to tank (not all teams do) and have a lost season. They'll trade for Mayfield in hopes of still making the playoffs.

When's the last time a QB got hurt in the preseason for any duration of time?!?

More importantly with teams not even playing their starting QB's for more than a total of 3 quarters of preseason football any longer, when is the next one going to get hurt?

Hell your team didnt even play Carr in the preseason last year.

 

[Manster7588]

You guys don't understand that Cleveland will eat half his salary and get a 4th (maybe a 3rd) when a starting QB gets hurt in pre-season or very early in the reg season and the team doesn't want to tank (not all teams do) and have a lost season. They'll trade for Mayfield in hopes of still making the playoffs.

If any team sends a 4th much less a 3rd for Baker and 1/2 his salary I'd say they're on par with the Bears moving up for Trubisky.

Offer a 7th or sit and wait. I'm not trading anything of value for a question mark like Mayfield.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

When's the last time a QB got hurt in the preseason for any duration of time?!?

More importantly with teams not even playing their starting QB's for more than a total of 3 quarters of preseason football any longer, when is the next one going to get hurt?

Hell your team didnt even play Carr in the preseason last year.

Hmmm..... What year was it when the Vikes traded for Bradford?

 

[DJ Fieri]

If any team sends a 4th much less a 3rd for Baker and 1/2 his salary I'd say they're on par with the Bears moving up for Trubisky.

Offer a 7th or sit and wait. I'm not trading anything of value for a question mark like Mayfield.

He isn't a question mark.....took them damn near a title game.

More than Dak has done for the 'Boys.

 

[Clayton]

Yep, the draft and developing RB's is definitely the way to go. The Browns drafted Chubb, paid him, but only bc he is a top 5 RB caliber. They got Hunt coming off his suspension on a once-in-a-lifetime kind of deal for his talent. Hunt and Johnson leave next year and they drafted Ford in 5th this year. The Vikings did the same. Draft Cook-top 5 potential, sign him to a deal. Draft Mattison and now drafting Chandler...who btw is under-the-radar. That was a good pick.
Drafting and developing is the way to go at the RB position then if you find a guy that has top 5-10 talent you pay him for one more contract. After that, you have the guy you drafted right behind to replace him. Seems simple but if you don't find your guy then you get into a Dolphins situation where you get very desperate and go sign 3 FA RB's.

I think like everything else is just depends on the quality of the player. You draft Sony Michel, Ronald Jones, or Clyde Edwards Helaire then you haven't done squat.

I do think the best teams get instant starters with their 2nd round picks regardless of position. Teams dont have time to wait for 2nd rounders to get good. Maybe with a 1st round QB or DE you have time but not with other positions.

 

[ducky]

Hmmm..... What year was it when the Vikes traded for Bradford?

Ha! I was thinking Vick was the last notable one.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Hmmm..... What year was it when the Vikes traded for Bradford?

Or Winston last season with the Saints in what.....the 5th game? Ruined their season when they couldn't field competent QB play.

 

[DJ Fieri]

If any team sends a 4th much less a 3rd for Baker and 1/2 his salary I'd say they're on par with the Bears moving up for Trubisky.

Offer a 7th or sit and wait. I'm not trading anything of value for a question mark like Mayfield.

You realize 9 mill is way below market value for a starting QB....right?